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Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

  • Thread starter Thread starter AutoBus
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Wiskey Driver said:
You can doubt all you want about our upgrades over here but when I was hired the up grades were running 7-8yrs. Now I am 2yrs senior to Dave but be that as it may I was still looking at up grade in 2010 or 2011 now it more like 2014!!!! So just for argument sake what were the AAA up grades running prior to the buyout??? you guessed it 22yrs!!! The east made out just fine in this thing. They need to get a clue and move on!!!

WD.
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Wasn't "doubting" your upgrades. Was speaking on at the merger time, everything being stagnant, and how people would flow due to attrition, no growth etc. Just looking at age 60 it showed the west with 490 or so by 2015. East was 1800 of just the active guys. 2363 if you include the furloughees.... Either way, it's bound to be interesting. Need a spreadsheet guru to layout a spreadsheet with all the numbers on it...
 
Ya there are, their names appear twice on the list. I believe they get their choice of which number they want. Hard decision. LOL....think they averaged increasing their number by 1000+ spots or more, by getting hired 4 years later or so....
 
Crzipilot said:
Ya there are, their names appear twice on the list. I believe they get their choice of which number they want. Hard decision. LOL....think they averaged increasing their number by 1000+ spots or more, by getting hired 4 years later or so....
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Yo Criz do you still have a Mustang?

Red Cobra from your class.
 
Crzipilot said:
Wasn't "doubting" your upgrades. Was speaking on at the merger time, everything being stagnant, and how people would flow due to attrition, no growth etc. Just looking at age 60 it showed the west with 490 or so by 2015. East was 1800 of just the active guys. 2363 if you include the furloughees.... Either way, it's bound to be interesting. Need a spreadsheet guru to layout a spreadsheet with all the numbers on it...
Click to expand...

One thing you have to factor in is the west has a bunch of attrition to other carriers. They always have and always will. We still have guys bailing. It is starting to sound like a good idea to me.
 
FR8mastr said:
Because the guys that are slotted around you are much older, so right about the time you and the guys around you start to upgrade they retire.

So a guy from the east that would have had a couple of years as captain before being shown the door now will not get that chance because of the much younger "relative seniority" West pilots that are now senior to him

What this means basically is in 5-10 years the remaining West pilots will hold the vast majority of the Captain slots, while the EX East pilots will hold the FO slots
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At AWA if you can hold CA but are 58 or older, you are awarded CA and paid, just not trained, so you get CA pay to sit right seat and bid top of the list. Whose going to shed any tears for him?
 
Boeing747Driver said:
Yo Criz do you still have a Mustang?

Red Cobra from your class.
Click to expand...


Hey man, Wellllll, still have the '65, the '94 got wrapped around a telephone pole, Long story.....LOL. Anyways looking at getting another one here possibly, BUT have a son that's starting to throw hints as to what he wants in 2.5 years (he's almost 14) So I might be buying a Chevy sprint instead...hahah......If he ends up driving a car anywhere close to how he does a Jetski...
 
Boeing747Driver said:
One thing you have to factor in is the west has a bunch of attrition to other carriers. They always have and always will. We still have guys bailing. It is starting to sound like a good idea to me.
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Be more than happy to show you the door,as would a few others. Might want to take your buddy Trainer 8 along with you.


PHXFLYR:cool:
 
nwaredtail said:
Your whole "unfair" argument seems to hinge on the treatment of the furloughees, not the active pilots on the list. The arbitrator obviously concluded that they shouldn't get the same treatment as active pilots. I happen to agree with him, but I'm willing to listen to examples from the past of how furloughees have been integrated.

Thanks for the response.
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That's what I took also. Instead of the East furloughees being p'ssed at the AWA guys, who have never been furloughed, why don't they thank the senior USAir pilot's who gave all of the narrowbody flying away during the contract negotiations to try to save their own pensions? This extended their furloughs and now screws them even more.

Constantly amazed at the thought process of pilots.[/quote]


Thought process and pilots...isn't that an oxymoron?;)

PHXFLYR:cool:
 
PHXFLYR said:
Thought process and pilots...isn't that an oxymoron?;)

PHXFLYR:cool:
Click to expand...


That I like!


Now back to the topic, the "arbitration award":

Was it fair? I don't know, "fair" is dependant upon who is looking & deciding. Personally the decision seems a little 1 sided to me. Unreasonably so? Maybe not. Any way you look at it, it was going to be a herculean task to integrate 2 seniority lists, 1 with 2005 new hires the other with 1988 furloughs.

3 things I am certain of:

1. Glad I didn't have to make the decision.

2. I was fairly certain that the decision wouldn't be DOH, and stated so several times.

3. When the decision came out, with any thing less that DOH, the AAA boys would scream like they had a body part severed.



Let's not forget that the AWA boys didn't make this happen, so don't take your frustration out on them.
 
I read the post by the former U guy who is now NJA.

All I can say is I feel for you guys. You deserve better.

This situation should be used as the example when someone wants a definition of "turbulence" when we talk about how turbulent an airline career is. Uncertain future, unexpected twists and turns, broken promises, starting all over somewhere else halfway or more into your major career. In years past it was Frank Lorenzo, Legacy domination, LCC expansion, or 9/11 that crushed more than a few careers. Right now its further consolidation thru merger.

I like to think that knowledge is power, but knowledge is often of little use in this career. Crazy things happen. It was unusual when AWA used investor cash to buy USAir.

More than anything it hurts when young guys, through timing, work their way in ahead of you. No apologies are recognition of their luck. Often they just say too bad for you and good for me.

ALPA can work for you, but is often powerless or unwilling to work your issue.

When good things happen to folks in this industry I am most likely to think "What a lucky break" no matter what it is. I used to think it had to do with good planning, but no longer.

I think the young guys still believe their superior smarts and skill guide their careers. Unfortunately, many will learn otherwise when they get the shaft at some point.
 
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