AWA/U Seniority Food Fight - The First Salvo

[PositiveRate]

Amen MK82man! If our new airline can hold it's ground, this could be a good deal for the junior AWA guys/gals.

 

[vtwin]

"Maybe a preferential interview or a 2:1 (2 old US Air guys for every one new hire on the street). Since we were going to keep hiring this year and next I'd want us to be fair to guys on the outside looking for Major Airline Work ... MESA RJ guys/gals should not be frozen out for the entire USAir list to be recalled."

So worse than a staple for the 14+ year AAA furloughee and a re-interview also?
You forgot to add a swift kick in the jimmy to go along with it.

 

[TheDonger]

Lear Love, before the "Steel Cage Match", I think there ought to be a merger of all pilots to pigpile a guy named "Chip" at US Airways. Whaddya say?

I have the solution:

I suggested this way back during the UAL/U fiasco and again during the accompaning ACA/PDT-ALG deal and once again in the recient past in ref. to the ALG/PDT merger.

Senority integration via STEEL CAGE MATCH!!!!!!


I this case (U/AWA) we choose a neutral location like Kansas City KMCI and get all the US Air, MidAtlantic and AWA guys and lock them in a giant steel cage. When the bell rings it's every man for himself. First guy knocked out gets the bottom senority number. The next guy after gets one senority number better and so on till only one guy is standing. Last guy standing gets senority number one. Screw ALPA merger policy, this is the only fair way. We could even sell tickets and make back the paycuts weve given in the past 4 years.

Bonus - the guy who knocks out the most people gets to smash Duane Woerth on the face with a brick.

Any takers???

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

That's not exactly fair....

How 'bout no current AWA pilots lose jobs, they weren't going to before the merger, why should they after one. US had planned on sending planes packing, so THEIR pilots should be the ones on the street. Senority integration should be done after the planned furloughes at US

AWA will send planes away with the merger as well. AWA will gain efficiencies due to the merger. Is it fair to make the USAir pilots take the full brunt. Every airline is feeling a pinch and looking for solutions. Your annalogy suggestions taking a snap shot of AWA with no lose of A/Cs and then take a snap shot of US in the future; not a fair comparison.

My take on an equitible merger: DOH for pay, vacation, retirement, etc. Percentage for integration and round up in favor of the stronger carrier. If you are 50% on the list, you should stay there within 1%.

Parking planes: take a look at the percentage of A/C lose from each carrier and try to make it reflect the same as to furloughs. The problem is the dominant carrier may make the weaker one get rid of planes for political reasons and not necessaritly for economic ones.

It will get ugly, best of luck to all.

 

[LearLove]

Lear Love, before the "Steel Cage Match", I think there ought to be a merger of all pilots to pigpile a guy named "Chip" at US Airways. Whaddya say?

Yeah that guy is wacked in the head. He's usually getting hammered by our own guys on the AAA web board.

 

[MD80]

MK82Man...you are a complete and utter idiot!!!

 

[MD80]

MK82Man says:


As far as furloughed USAir guys ... I don't know much about LOA 89 (?) but I do think they should have some rights at the new carrier. Maybe a preferential interview or a 2:1 (2 old US Air guys for every one new hire on the street). Since we were going to keep hiring this year and next I'd want us to be fair to guys on the outside looking for Major Airline Work ... MESA RJ guys/gals should not be frozen out for the entire USAir list to be recalled, etc. I am one AWA dude who is excited about the prospect. Call me new, call me naive, call me barely wet behind the ears, but it looks like a good match and a good future to me. I'll do my part.

This has got to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read here. To actually think that a USAir pilot that has made the biggest sacrifice (Furloughed!) should be behind a guy off the street is completely insame. MK82Man and PositiveRate should be embarressed by the stupidity they show!!! After reading your posts, I will surely be rooting for the USAir boys.

On behalf of all furloughed USair pilots that want a fair recall schedule BEFORE STREET hires...POUND SAND MK82Man and PoistiveRate!!!

 

[Cactus73]

I think all furloughed USAirway's guys should get automatic recall before any new hire ever gets their foot in the door.

I can care less about any off the street guys looking for a job until each and every pilot ever furloughed by either airline is back on property.

This should be a no brainer.

All guys on the active seniority lists should be part of the merger discussions. Then all furloughed pilots brought back as positions are needed.

 

[Doug Parker]

Mk82man,

What is your P-#? I'm gonna crap in your mailbox!



PS - Your nose has some brown on it!

 

[Hansoma]

I'm voting for Lear's Thunderdome approach!! Time to start working out!!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Oh, we're well beyond Thunderdome at this point...

I'm voting for Lear's Thunderdome approach!! Time to start working out!!

.....sometimes I worry about posting something really stupid, but then I read this board and think, I don't have anything to worry about!

 

[PositiveRate]

MD80 you can f*ck off for all I care. All people do is dog on each other here. MK82 consistently has a good and optimistic attitude and I applaud that...that's also what I was responding too. There was a lot more in that post besides the 2:1 comment. I'm much more concerned about furloughs that may be in the near future (at both carriers), than what to do with those already furloughed well down the road if/when we start hiring again.

None of that pref interview crap, though. Just bring them back if they want in...not that any of this will be up to any of us, but my guess is that many have moved on. There are many bridges to cross before that, though, so calm down.

Mr. pompass...I mean MD80, correct me if i'm wrong but didn't CURRENT USairways pilots sign away fragmentation rights for their OWN furloughed brothers and sisters? That ball has already been rolling down a shi^tty hill.
vbmenu_register("postmenu_625111", true);

 

[racerX]

Here is my idea and I feel that you will all have a great time crapping on it. What if.....

Any US Airways pilot that stays in a US Airways domicile retains their seniority and all their expectations. If they bid for the AWA domiciles, their seniority becomes "Date of Merger" (DOM) in that domicile. If an AWA pilot stays in an AWA domicile, their seniority and expectations remain the same. If they bid to a US Airways domicile, they get DOM seniority. If a new domicile opens, ratio merge or length of penis (sorry girls) or something else that is fair. That way everyone retains the expectations they had before the merger and no one displaces the pilots from the other group.

A straight ratio merge would be unfair to the AWA pilots because the US Airways system is shrinking while the AWA system is growing or at least remaining the same size. We are having upgrade classes. It would be unfair for a USA guy to step in front of one of our FOs for a upgrade in our system. The same would be true for one of our guys taking a captain slot in your system instead of bringing one of your FOs back to captain status. And while I don't think any furloughed guy should go in front of any flying pilot, I do think that they should be brought back before any hiring at the new carrier.

Rodney King was wrong..."Why can't we all just stay separate?"

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I think all furloughed USAirway's guys should get automatic recall before any new hire ever gets their foot in the door.

I can care less about any off the street guys looking for a job until each and every pilot ever furloughed by either airline is back on property.

This should be a no brainer.

All guys on the active seniority lists should be part of the merger discussions. Then all furloughed pilots brought back as positions are needed.

Can't agree more!!!!

WD.

 

[Hansoma]

Yeah Jeff, it's not anymore stupid than anything I've read on this thread already....

 

[Hpilot]

Furloughs

Doug Parker said tonight that hiring at AWA while furloughing at USAIR is just not fair. I agree with Parker and Cactus 73. Of course I'm biased since I myself could be furloughed. I hope this all works.

 

[Metro752]

I know the Olson Twins

 

[typhoonpilot]

Okay, first of all, nobody is going to get furloughed. It wouldn't make sense. USAirways is actually recalling all pilots on a leave of absence because they are short of pilots. They are losing ( according to another post ) and average of 1.2 pilots per day. That would be 438 pilots per year if you don't want to do the math. Guys are retiring, taking other jobs, etc. The taking other jobs reason may slow down the numbers now that the merger has been announced, but the retirements remain. Almost all active USAirway pilots will be retired in 15 years.

This is one of the few rational posts on this thread so far:

Here is my idea and I feel that you will all have a great time crapping on it. What if.....

Any US Airways pilot that stays in a US Airways domicile retains their seniority and all their expectations. If they bid for the AWA domiciles, their seniority becomes "Date of Merger" (DOM) in that domicile. If an AWA pilot stays in an AWA domicile, their seniority and expectations remain the same. If they bid to a US Airways domicile, they get DOM seniority. If a new domicile opens, ratio merge or length of penis (sorry girls) or something else that is fair. That way everyone retains the expectations they had before the merger and no one displaces the pilots from the other group.

A straight ratio merge would be unfair to the AWA pilots because the US Airways system is shrinking while the AWA system is growing or at least remaining the same size. We are having upgrade classes. It would be unfair for a USA guy to step in front of one of our FOs for a upgrade in our system. The same would be true for one of our guys taking a captain slot in your system instead of bringing one of your FOs back to captain status. And while I don't think any furloughed guy should go in front of any flying pilot, I do think that they should be brought back before any hiring at the new carrier.

RacerX got it mostly correct, but the perspective of the second paragraph would be different for a USAir guy. A straight ratio merge would be a windfall for the senior AWA pilots as now they can hold A330 Captain and 767 Captain flying International.

A combination of RacerX's idea with 15 year fences and a few other clauses would be the way to go. Those fences can come down on a progressive basis as the USAirways pilots retire. Just like Piedmont did with Empire for F-28 drivers, the USAirways guys should hold date-of-hire seniority on all widebody international flying out of the U.S. East coast. America West pilots never had the expectation of doing that, but most would now have the opportunity within 15 years. Likewise America West pilots should always hold an advantage for Phoenix and Las Vegas domiciles.

As others said, I'm glad to be sitting on the sidelines while this happens. I was one of the U guys denied a jumpseat by a UAL pilot during that deal. Lets not make this personal like that. I think the AWA pilots are some of the best where the jumpseat is concerned and certainly a lot more down to earth than the UAL pilots are, so it isn't likely to happen.

TP

 

[AutoBus]

Just with more vacation, right? How about DOH for non reving? Who will get that first class seat? Lots of things to work out here.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Dude at america west it's first come first served, no senority for non-reving. get used to it, more changes a coming for our Uair "brothers"

 

[AutoBus]

Our pilots have provided the Company with $7 billion in cost savings through four restructurings-an investment far greater than any other group. We expect that our sacrifices will be respected as we welcome the opportunity to become a partner in the creation of this country's premier low-cost airline.

.

They need to give that 7 billion line, give it up and please be advised portions of the meeting may be in closed session.