AWA/U Seniority Food Fight - The First Salvo

[Jeff Helgeson]

Oh, we're well beyond Thunderdome at this point...

I'm voting for Lear's Thunderdome approach!! Time to start working out!!

.....sometimes I worry about posting something really stupid, but then I read this board and think, I don't have anything to worry about!

 

[PositiveRate]

MD80 you can f*ck off for all I care. All people do is dog on each other here. MK82 consistently has a good and optimistic attitude and I applaud that...that's also what I was responding too. There was a lot more in that post besides the 2:1 comment. I'm much more concerned about furloughs that may be in the near future (at both carriers), than what to do with those already furloughed well down the road if/when we start hiring again.

None of that pref interview crap, though. Just bring them back if they want in...not that any of this will be up to any of us, but my guess is that many have moved on. There are many bridges to cross before that, though, so calm down.

Mr. pompass...I mean MD80, correct me if i'm wrong but didn't CURRENT USairways pilots sign away fragmentation rights for their OWN furloughed brothers and sisters? That ball has already been rolling down a shi^tty hill.
vbmenu_register("postmenu_625111", true);

 

[racerX]

Here is my idea and I feel that you will all have a great time crapping on it. What if.....

Any US Airways pilot that stays in a US Airways domicile retains their seniority and all their expectations. If they bid for the AWA domiciles, their seniority becomes "Date of Merger" (DOM) in that domicile. If an AWA pilot stays in an AWA domicile, their seniority and expectations remain the same. If they bid to a US Airways domicile, they get DOM seniority. If a new domicile opens, ratio merge or length of penis (sorry girls) or something else that is fair. That way everyone retains the expectations they had before the merger and no one displaces the pilots from the other group.

A straight ratio merge would be unfair to the AWA pilots because the US Airways system is shrinking while the AWA system is growing or at least remaining the same size. We are having upgrade classes. It would be unfair for a USA guy to step in front of one of our FOs for a upgrade in our system. The same would be true for one of our guys taking a captain slot in your system instead of bringing one of your FOs back to captain status. And while I don't think any furloughed guy should go in front of any flying pilot, I do think that they should be brought back before any hiring at the new carrier.

Rodney King was wrong..."Why can't we all just stay separate?"

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I think all furloughed USAirway's guys should get automatic recall before any new hire ever gets their foot in the door.

I can care less about any off the street guys looking for a job until each and every pilot ever furloughed by either airline is back on property.

This should be a no brainer.

All guys on the active seniority lists should be part of the merger discussions. Then all furloughed pilots brought back as positions are needed.

Can't agree more!!!!

WD.

 

[Hansoma]

Yeah Jeff, it's not anymore stupid than anything I've read on this thread already....

 

[Hpilot]

Furloughs

Doug Parker said tonight that hiring at AWA while furloughing at USAIR is just not fair. I agree with Parker and Cactus 73. Of course I'm biased since I myself could be furloughed. I hope this all works.

 

[Metro752]

I know the Olson Twins

 

[typhoonpilot]

Okay, first of all, nobody is going to get furloughed. It wouldn't make sense. USAirways is actually recalling all pilots on a leave of absence because they are short of pilots. They are losing ( according to another post ) and average of 1.2 pilots per day. That would be 438 pilots per year if you don't want to do the math. Guys are retiring, taking other jobs, etc. The taking other jobs reason may slow down the numbers now that the merger has been announced, but the retirements remain. Almost all active USAirway pilots will be retired in 15 years.

This is one of the few rational posts on this thread so far:

Here is my idea and I feel that you will all have a great time crapping on it. What if.....

Any US Airways pilot that stays in a US Airways domicile retains their seniority and all their expectations. If they bid for the AWA domiciles, their seniority becomes "Date of Merger" (DOM) in that domicile. If an AWA pilot stays in an AWA domicile, their seniority and expectations remain the same. If they bid to a US Airways domicile, they get DOM seniority. If a new domicile opens, ratio merge or length of penis (sorry girls) or something else that is fair. That way everyone retains the expectations they had before the merger and no one displaces the pilots from the other group.

A straight ratio merge would be unfair to the AWA pilots because the US Airways system is shrinking while the AWA system is growing or at least remaining the same size. We are having upgrade classes. It would be unfair for a USA guy to step in front of one of our FOs for a upgrade in our system. The same would be true for one of our guys taking a captain slot in your system instead of bringing one of your FOs back to captain status. And while I don't think any furloughed guy should go in front of any flying pilot, I do think that they should be brought back before any hiring at the new carrier.

RacerX got it mostly correct, but the perspective of the second paragraph would be different for a USAir guy. A straight ratio merge would be a windfall for the senior AWA pilots as now they can hold A330 Captain and 767 Captain flying International.

A combination of RacerX's idea with 15 year fences and a few other clauses would be the way to go. Those fences can come down on a progressive basis as the USAirways pilots retire. Just like Piedmont did with Empire for F-28 drivers, the USAirways guys should hold date-of-hire seniority on all widebody international flying out of the U.S. East coast. America West pilots never had the expectation of doing that, but most would now have the opportunity within 15 years. Likewise America West pilots should always hold an advantage for Phoenix and Las Vegas domiciles.

As others said, I'm glad to be sitting on the sidelines while this happens. I was one of the U guys denied a jumpseat by a UAL pilot during that deal. Lets not make this personal like that. I think the AWA pilots are some of the best where the jumpseat is concerned and certainly a lot more down to earth than the UAL pilots are, so it isn't likely to happen.

TP

 

[AutoBus]

Just with more vacation, right? How about DOH for non reving? Who will get that first class seat? Lots of things to work out here.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Dude at america west it's first come first served, no senority for non-reving. get used to it, more changes a coming for our Uair "brothers"

 

[AutoBus]

Our pilots have provided the Company with $7 billion in cost savings through four restructurings-an investment far greater than any other group. We expect that our sacrifices will be respected as we welcome the opportunity to become a partner in the creation of this country's premier low-cost airline.

.

They need to give that 7 billion line, give it up and please be advised portions of the meeting may be in closed session.

 

[LearLove]

You all need to shut your pie holes as everyone already knows both mainline U and AWA are getting stapled to the bottom of MidAtlantic. O wait, hmmm that doen't work because MDA is mainline, that means we are stapling our own back to us. Guess thats like stapling your own a$$ shut. Yeah thats what I went, you guys need to staple your a$$ shut.

Just kidding, its very boreing here in the crashpad.

 

[bigred]

Here's an idea.


http://www.erikandanna.com/Humor/FlashStuff/SouthPark/roshamboN.htm

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

The best thing I can say to the USAirways pilots is, at least American didn't buy you. You might have a fighting chance. I don't foresee you guys hearing "We are major league baseball players, and you guys are the hot-dog vendors in our ballpark." from their union. Trust me, mergers are always ugly. If, at the ned of the seniority integration everyone is a little pissed, then it was pretty fair. When the TWA buyout was announced, you could just hear the senior AA Nazi F/O's drooling over the new 1,300 Capt positions they thought they should be able to bid.

 

[TheDonger]

I don't foresee you guys hearing "We are major league baseball players, and you guys are the hot-dog vendors in our ballpark." from their union.

Did they REALLY say that?

 

[bike100k]

How about mini-triathalon. A mile swim, 35 mile bike, and 10 mile run. Your place across the finish line gives your senoirty number.

 

[aa73]

The best thing I can say to the USAirways pilots is, at least American didn't buy you. You might have a fighting chance. I don't foresee you guys hearing "We are major league baseball players, and you guys are the hot-dog vendors in our ballpark." from their union. Trust me, mergers are always ugly. If, at the ned of the seniority integration everyone is a little pissed, then it was pretty fair. When the TWA buyout was announced, you could just hear the senior AA Nazi F/O's drooling over the new 1,300 Capt positions they thought they should be able to bid.

Ha ha ha what a bunch of horse sheet!

1300 Capt positions.... boy oh boy lemme have whatever you're smoking dude!

What he MEANT to say was, "When the TWA buyout was announced, you could just hear the senior AND junior TWAliban pilots drooling over 777 positions they thought they should be able to hold..." Not to mention, a savior!

P.S. Note to most sane and normal TWA pilots I've had the pleasure to meet and work with.... this post only applies to the minority of you guys that have this idiot's attitude... of which we all have at all airlines.

P.S.S. Seems like, at the end of this lovely little integration, everyone form both sides is a little pissed... what does that tell you Genius?

73

 

[Dangerkitty]

I don't foresee you guys hearing "We are major league baseball players, and you guys are the hot-dog vendors in our ballpark." from their union.

Did they REALLY say that?

No, the APA never said that. It's just another bitter TWA Furloughee spreading more lies about the buyout and integration.

Thank God I am watching this integration from the sidelines. I never wanna go through that ever again.

 

[jon coqtoestone]

Okay, first of all, nobody is going to get furloughed. It wouldn't make sense. USAirways is actually recalling all pilots on a leave of absence because they are short of pilots. They are losing ( according to another post ) and average of 1.2 pilots per day. That would be 438 pilots per year if you don't want to do the math. Guys are retiring, taking other jobs, etc. The taking other jobs reason may slow down the numbers now that the merger has been announced, but the retirements remain. Almost all active USAirway pilots will be retired in 15 years.


TP

By the rough numbers I've seen, there are about 5000 pilots combined. The plan calls for 371 aircraft. Assuming a 5:1 crew ratio, we are currently about 1300 pilots in excess. Of course, there are several years to retire/attrit 1300 pilots, but can or will it be done by "integration date" with retirements and attrition alone? I sure hope so, but can't imagine it -- especially with Age 60 likely to change during the time frame.

Ugly times ahead. God bless us all.

 

[racerX]

There seems to be a lot of worry on the US Airways about AWA guys coming and flying A330's internationally. A good note for you US Airways guys is that I haven't run into any AWA guy who wants to move to the east or fly international. We like our short leg stuff. The fewer time zones we cross the better. I really think you're overestimating the desire of our guys to come over. I don't want to go to the humidity and cold any more than you want to come to the "valley of the sun...and heat...and fire." I'd worry more about our same pay for all aircraft bleeding over to you guys.

By the way, record heat forecasted for the weekend in PHX. 112 on Sun.

 

[JetMonkey]

Well, here's another AWA newbie that agrees with: All furloughed pilots should be hired back BEFORE any off the street pilots. There, I said it. I don't care if you don't like me, my wife and daughter love me and that's all I need to know. (and of course if I get to stay in PHX)

 

[Reebo]

Well, here's another AWA newbie that agrees with: All furloughed pilots should be hired back BEFORE any off the street pilots. There, I said it. I don't care if you don't like me, my wife and daughter love me and that's all I need to know. (and of course if I get to stay in PHX)

you wouldn't be saying that if you were in the "pool" or waiting for an interview. why not just let them "merge" in with their date of hire. i'd bet you would be screaming how unfair that is, but hey they were hired before you weren't they?

 

[B6Driver]

Good to see the AA nasty attitude is alive and well. All you selfish pricks can choke on my MD-80 captain job. In time, me and my new home will eat your lunch and collect the check you SNB are due me.
Say what you wish but I never jumped for joy. I knew your history and they don't call you nazi's for nothing.
Save you reply.

 

[Jim320]

Before the merger the fleet plan included delivery of 11 more airbuses till the end of the year. Now those 11 are going to be pushed back till 2009 and we will park 6 737 300’s and 4 A319. Not sure if we will have any furloughs but it is rumored.


Jim



http://www.alphapilottraining.com

 

[michael707767]

There seems to be a lot of worry on the US Airways about AWA guys coming and flying A330's internationally.

Hmm, any more than the AWA guys who worry about USAir copilots trying to take all of the AWA captain jobs?

 

[Dangerkitty]

Good to see the AA nasty attitude is alive and well. All you selfish pricks can choke on my MD-80 captain job. In time, me and my new home will eat your lunch and collect the check you SNB are due me.
Say what you wish but I never jumped for joy. I knew your history and they don't call you nazi's for nothing.
Save you reply.

Make that two TWA furloughees that are bitter about the acquisition and integration.

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

Good to see the AA nasty attitude is alive and well. All you selfish pricks can choke on my MD-80 captain job. In time, me and my new home will eat your lunch and collect the check you SNB are due me.
Say what you wish but I never jumped for joy. I knew your history and they don't call you nazi's for nothing.
Save you reply.

Whoa man......get it together.

Put down the vodka and think happy thoughts........It wil all be OK in the monrning.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Who was Racer X?

That was a burning question for me in Grade 7. I loved Speed Racer!!

Cliff
YIP

PS-I just bought that for my kid on DVD.

 

[aa73]

Good to see the AA nasty attitude is alive and well. All you selfish pricks can choke on my MD-80 captain job. In time, me and my new home will eat your lunch and collect the check you SNB are due me.
Say what you wish but I never jumped for joy. I knew your history and they don't call you nazi's for nothing.
Save you reply.

HA HA HA Ha....

"Your MD80 Captain Job".... "Collect the check due me"....

You are out to lunch dude! But thanks for giving me the laugh of the day!

Up yours Buster!

You and your "new home" (house of cards, that is) deserve each other. Don't come crying bach here when your recall comes, save it for someone who earned the job.

Later dude,
73

 

[aa73]

Make that two TWA furloughees that are bitter about the acquisition and integration.

Go cry in your soup bowl with B6 driver, you two make a pretty cute pair.

Thank God the two of you don't represent the professionalism of most of the other TWA crews I've had the pleasure to meet. Guess all airlines have their bad apples.

73

 

[bafanguy]

I was hired in '73 following one merger and sat through two more in the ensuing 30 years. These deals are understandably very emotional issues for the participants. There is no certifiable right or wrong ( except for the TWA thing ). The "right" thing happened if your ox didn't get gored; someone's WILL.


Before this is over, otherwise rational people will say some pretty incredible things and harbor resentment that will go with them to the grave. Just the way it is...

Good luck to all involved.