Awa Merger

[321 busdriver]

Thanks man. You and I and some of the sane ones need to down a few when this is all over. You're right. I got tired of responding to all the senseless dribble. Still read the posts, just don't have the enthusiasm to argue anymore. As for the 737 Capt. that can't wait to slam the AWA guys....well he's an idiot too. We all have our % of people who just look out for themselves. Happy landings.

Maybe because I believe in the ALPA Merger Policy where it says one pilot group shouldn't benefit at the expense of the other. Too bad that AAA 73 Capt that gave me my DOH lecture jumpseating to work a few weeks ago doesn't feel that way. That would be just as bad as us stapeling you guys to the bottom of the combined list,don't you think? That plus the fact that unlike others ,both at your house and mine,I feel that this thing will get setteled by an arbitrator ,which I think is really sad. I mean why we just can't sit down and come to some sort of sensible agreement rather than letting lawyers and a
judge deciding the outcome is beyond me. But I have accepted in my own way that this is the way it will go and will probably cost me a Capt seat,too ,in addition to all the USAir guys and gals who have lost theirs already. But unlike my co-horts here who will continue to "rage on into the night" i will learn to live with it,or ,if I don't like the final outcome, or the "New and Improved USAir" simply resign and move on.

Regarding our guys on this webboard being a fairly offensive bunch, you and crzipilot are right up there with them . I kinda liked 321 Bus driver,though. Kinda your equivlent of our TWADude. I think he got smart,though and bailed
out of the debate.Can't blame him. Nothing will get accomplished by bashing each other here anyway.So I might as well go outand do something productive
like cut the lawn and play catch with my son. See ya in PHL ....ugh that means I'll have to call myself PHLFLYR ?? Disgusting.Where's that resume again


PHXFLYR

 

[Crzipilot]

"Phx...

Well to my offensive posts (though can't remember all of them) most were concocted after a few too many adult beverages and watching the drible here. I've continued to post, trying to find some sense of intelligent life out here, there is some rays of hope, but not much. As I said I agree with the arbritator is going to decide this, I also agree, why can't the two sides sit down and figure something out. Mostly because (at least at the US side) the people which populate the MEC's are extremely political and really don't have the sense of what it takes to be a union rep. They have their agendas and it usually starts with #1, themselves. Unfortunately also, the names which keep popping up within the commitees on our side seem to be the same names over and over again, just retreaded. Kinda like the the names I would see go through different carriers at the non-skeds. I hear the lipservice of the reps...."We look out for the upper and lower sides" but the actions hardly prove it. They have screwed over both. And yes I know, ALPA is only as good as what you put into it. I've been nudged both at mainline and where I'm at now to get back involved, but you see, I did 4 yrs running an independant union, in which I had capts making 200+ / f/e's making 100+ and reserve life was dramtically improved. I've been tempted, but the prev. foray into the fire cost my personal life dearly, so I'm still a little gun shy. Worst of all, through this all, we have not had a vote on any of the things which have affected our careers. Oh well........
Again, I too believe the combination of the two will put each carrier into a position to be a force, though it will take alot of work, management and labor. On the labor side, after all is said and done, I'd love to have an oppty for ALOT of new blood get injected into ALPA. Some actual thinkers outside the box. What I have seen from contracts from most of the carriers, is yes, some are nice, but alot of the crap in there is just that, retread crap. Pump in new blood, new contracts, with new thinking.........and move on;.

 

[Cactus73]

Wow, sorry PHX....I must have grouped you in with several other AWA posters here who have consistantly and emphatically posted that all U furloughees had zero for expectations and were simply to be stapled. It's my fault; I don't take this Internet stuff nearly as serious as some, and so I make errors from time to time.

Your group, as represented on this website, is a fairly offensive bunch. You and one other (TWADude) seem more reasonable.

OK, so, while we are at it: why do you think your stance on the stapler differs so from that of WD and many of the other AWA posters here?

I think emotions are running a little high on the AWA side for a few reasons.

1. Our management has taken a turn for the worse in labor relations department. We asked them for some flight pay loss help for our merger committee people and they flately refused after indicating they were willing to help. They no longer seem interested in helping either side preserve jobs.
All their initial talk was a media stunt and now that the lights have gone dim in the press room they are back to their previous mantra of telling ALPA to pound sand.

2. The furlough issue. No matter how you cut it there will probably be furloughs on both side of the fence. The junior AWA guys (of which I am one with under two years of seniority) see this merger as sending us to the street for little reason. You guys are talking recall position and we are just trying to keep our heads above water. Before the merger was announced most of us were moving up the AWA list at a fairly good clip. I gained almost 30 positions on the 737 in a four month period. I am now a line holder paying my bills. Since they announced the merger and their "shared pain" policy, we are losing 6 737's by the end of the year - which will put me back on reserve at the very least.

3. ALPA merger policy. I don't know about the others but I have been advocating following the policy from the very start. I am more than willing to accept the outcome of our merge committee or the arbitrator. Not only does ALPA merger policy state that no windfalls should be had by either group, it also states that no pre-merger policy should lose his/her status as a result of the combined list. This is a sticky issue because I will almost certainly be furloughed.

4. Talk of retirements. Our MEC has studied the AAA seniority list and feels that management is grossly overstating the effects of retirements on our immediate futures (less than 5 years). I have a copy of this list and have gone through it coming to a similar conclusion. There aren't as many retirements/leaves on the horizon that are being tossed around here and elsewhere. I would be more than happy to email the list to anyone that pm's me.

5. The AWA guys making the most noise on this board are junior just like me. Most of us just don't want to lose our jobs over this. We aren't looking for a windfall. PHXFLYR is quite a bit senior to the rest of us posters and probably is not in danger of furlough - so it is easy for him to say that they should slot the furloughee's in ahead of active AWA pilots.

6. The RJ issue. If anyone has taken the time to read the SEC filings, the newco will be operating a huge amount of RJ's in relation to the mainline fleet. This is going to cost us jobs on both sides as we are fighting seniority issues. The more we end up fighting, Parker will just shift more flying to Republic, CHQ, Air Wisconsin, etc...

Bottom line is that as humans we are all selfish. Some may want a windfall, but I definitely don't. I will admit I don't want to give up my job for your return. I need my job and enjoy my job. As much as people talk about resigning and doing something else on this board, I can't just go out and get a job that pays what I make with the same benefits. If you can, go for it.

Most of us want a fair integration that gives this fledging airline a chance to actually work and compete.

I think it's time this thread finally goes away....

 

[Green]

PHXFLYR-

So you don't think the US Airways furloughees should be stapled? You think active AWA pilots should be slotted below some of those furloughees and consequently put out on the street? Even with 3-5 year fences, retirements don't mean much if the airline is shrinking and the future growth comes in the form of more E-190's and CRJ 900's. AAA's scope allows up to something like 450 rj's. A furloughed AAA pilot had just as much of an opportunity to apply with and get hired at AWA as anybody else. I believe alpa merger policy clearly states among other things to "Maintain or improve pre-merger status."

What was our respective pre-merger status. At AWA we were hiring approximately 200 per year and roughly looking at a 7 year upgrade. Now I don't care what BECAREful says but the "pre-merger status/expectations" of an AAA furloughee were very grim. That's not being harsh or greedy that is the cold truth. PHXFLYR I sure hope you're not on our merger committee.

 

[Crzipilot]

Green,

Points very well taken, I personally don't want to see any AWA guys put on the street either. At the same time I don't want to see a staple job either. There is a solution between the two, and I think that's what most of us have been advocating.

 

[Green]

Crzipilot-

I think you're right, we're going to have to come up with something pretty creative to make this work.

 

[TWA Dude]

PHXFLYR I sure hope you're not on our merger committee.

There's only three people on our Merger Committee and one of them is a furloughed TWA guy. He is nothing if not experienced.

 

[Green]

Great... I hope his P number is in the 3100 range.

 

[BeCareful!]

Cactus73-

Good post. I agree with much of what you said.


To both you and Green, I'll repeat what I've said before, that I don't think any AWA people should see "the street." I've been through it with two airlines now (one furlough, one liquidation) and I don't wish that sort of stress on anyone.

I'd also like to point out that I only carelessly mentioned DOH once on this board, very early on in all of this, and I was sorta joking around. Really, any thinking human can see that this needs to be a relative work of art by ALPA on both sides. (Having said that, I wouldn't hold my breath!)

Good luck to you guys. As a side note, I'm stepping up my job hunt, looking for alternatives to this mess. I'll try not to resign my seniority, though, so I might still get to pull gear for some of you.

 

[TWA Dude]

Great... I hope his P number is in the 3100 range.

2900 range.