Aviation degree/Non-Aviation degree

[de727ups]

I went to ERAU, too...

"I came out of the number one aviation school in the country (Embry-Riddle), and was already prepared to fly jets"

I'm glad you did well in your airlines training program. I did fine, too, but I don't give the credit to ERAU. The aviation classes were okay but they were in 1981 and I got hired at UPS in 1990. Honestly, what helped me the most in my UPS initial was all the experience I gained in the years between ERAU and UPS.

Too say you come out of ERAU "already prepared to fly jets"...is...well....I'll resist the urge to flame and just say it's inaccurate.

In my humble opinion as a 13th year 727 pilot at UPS....no one comes out of ERAU ready to fly jets. You can take that direct entry BS and stuff it....there is NO substitute for experience gained in the real world and you don't have much of that at 300 hours.

 

[White]

Non Aviation Degree!!!

The biggest mistake I made so far was to spend 4 years and thousands of dollars for an aviation degree at ERAU.

I spent all of my money and accrued massive debt to get through that school and was hanging on to my dream by a shoestring when the industry dropped. That was the straw that broke my back and I had to settle for another future or look forward to making a whole 30-40K in 10 years while getting more into debt. So I reluctantly chose the later as I simply was out of money and needed to pay off my loans. I have now been looking for a professional job for a year using my “BS”degree to no avail. “You have a degree in what?” “From where?” they say. “What is Embry Riddle.” Through the last year I have lowered my standards all the way down to the people I used to judge while I was in flight training. The car salesmen, furniture salesmen, and many others thinking I was somehow on a different level. Soon I will have one of these jobs (if I can qualify). Now I’m looking at paying off all of my school loans while doing something I don’t like, in fact downright hate. I know this sounds depressing but there’s no way to sugar coat it, believe me I’ve tried. When you put all your eggs in one basket and those eggs break, that’s the end of the story…DON’T DO IT!!!

Get a degree in something specialized you can use in the real world. If I had another go at it, I would look into Engineering or Architecture or Business or basically your second love after flight. I would go to a well-known school in all industries, not just in aviation.

By getting a degree in your “second love” you will always have a backup plan you can use and can fly for fun.

 

[TXCAP4228]

Well, he IS from Riddle.

Hey! On another thread you can't say this because its poking fun and somebody decided that was just wrong! Whatever.

Nice one, I needed the laugh!

 

[CFI'er]

Most of the replies that are against an aviation degree don’t know what they are talking about. Posters that think and aviation degree is useless should go to the web site of one of the university/college schools that offer degrees in aviation. Look at the required courses for an aviation degree in management and compare to a business degree. Here, I will save you time and list just a few.

Aviation Management Degree: English Composition I & II, Contemporary Issues In Business Administration I & II, Statistics For business, Financial Accounting, Micro & Macroeconomics, Physics I & II & Lab, Managerial Accounting, Principle of Marketing, Business Writing, Business Law, Principle of Finance. Wow!!!! The exact course subjects that is required for a BS, Business Administration.

Don’t know why an aviation degree should not work in a down turn. The problem with most prospective employers is lack of knowledge as to what subject’s are/ were required for an aviation degree. If you hold a degree in aviation, you need to emphases the course that is required for a degree in Aviation Management.

During an interview for a managerial position, I actually had the interviewer comment: “Because of flight training, a person with a pilots license is most likely better qualified to handle any situation, that might come up, than a non pilot,” By the Way, yes I did get the job because I are a pilot.(sic)

 

[bobbysamd]

Curricula

Aviation Management Degree: English Composition I & II, Contemporary Issues In Business Administration I & II, Statistics For business, Financial Accounting, Micro & Macroeconomics, Physics I & II & Lab, Managerial Accounting, Principle of Marketing, Business Writing, Business Law, Principle of Finance. Wow!!!! The exact course subjects that is required for a BS, Business Administration . . . . .

Too bad that course(s) in American Labor Movement, etc., aren't included. I'd strongly recommend for either major to take such courses as electives.

I always liked how Riddle required students to take comp courses. Having strong writing skills, especially report preparation, letter-writing and resume preparation, are important skills that pilots need.

 

[greg20]

Labor classes

Too bad that course(s) in American Labor Movement, etc., aren't included. I'd strongly recommend for either major to take such courses as electives.

As part of my BS-Aviation Business Administration degree at ERAU (with an area of concentration in Airport Management), I was required to take courses in both Human Resource Management and Aviation Labor Relations. I believe labor relations is an elective now.

I agree with you about formal writing skills - I had business communications, technical report writing, and other courses where there was a strong emphasis on clear and succinct writing.

 

[WAC]

I am in the flight program at Central Washington University. Who did you talk to? Dale Wilson? Well After listening to speaches from people high up in the airlines I can honestly say I don't believe a major in flight officer is that important. It does help a little but the airlines are looking for well balanced people. It is kind of nice because you get all your ratings durring college. I am required to also minor in something else in case flying doesnt work out for what ever reason. And just because you fly doesnt mean you cant enjoy the college experience. Just dont drink the 3 nights a week that you have flights the next day or just drink a little. But anyway a degree in flying isn't THAT importamt, but it does have it's benefits.

 

[dmspilot00]

Re: Curricula

I always liked how Riddle required students to take comp courses.

Actually, most colleges require students to take Engl/Comp 1 and 2 or equivilant as part of their Gen. Ed. curriculum for most majors of study. Schools that don't require it are more the exception than the rule.

 

[bobbysamd]

Curricula

Actually, most colleges require students to take Engl/Comp 1 and 2 or equivilant as part of their Gen. Ed. curriculum for most majors of study. Schools that don't require it are more the exception than the rule.

Well, sure, but I mean more advanced courses than English 101/102. Something like Technical Writing and Business Communications. Journalism. Even Public Speaking.

 

[dmspilot00]

Students usually take some of those too. Just because I said they have to take Engl. Comp 1 & 2 doesn't mean those are the only ones.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but I am merely pointing out that ERAU's gen. ed. requirements are not special and are actually typical of any other college.

I understand and appreciate what you're saying, however. It is almost too bad that some colleges require such a large number of general education courses and electives, because I would have more respect for a person who took certain courses on his/her own because they wanted, rather than someone who only took them because he/she was required to. Many students complain about taking courses that aren't related to their major, and that they won't use in their job, and it is very irritating. Students are supposed to go to college in order to get an education, not a job!

When I started college I was initially an aero. engineering major, and hated it because there was little room for electives and courses that weren't associated with engineering. Basically the major was the opposite of "diverse" and "well-rounded." In order to graduate I would have needed 142 credits, probably 80% engineering. Most courses of study only have about 120-125 total with close to 50% for the major. And they expected students to finish 142 credits in four years??? Students with 120-credit majors usually don't even finish in four years anymore.

 

[flywithastick]

When I started college I was initially an aero. engineering major, and hated it because there was little room for electives and courses that weren't associated with engineering.

Sure there's room. Either take 21 hrs/sem or stretch out your grad date.

Basically the major was the opposite of "diverse" and "well-rounded."

Engineering is a science program. PC doesn't apply to the laws of thermodynamics (thank goodness!). You'll need to transfer over to the liberal arts college to get a "well rounded" education. In my qualified experience, a BS engineering needs to be about 150+ hrs with some co-op work sessions to prepare an engineering student for industry.

Most courses of study only have about 120-125 total with close to 50% for the major.

Don't believe I ever saw anyone flunk "into" the engineering college. If it was easy, everyone would do it and engineers would be paid about like entry level pilots.

And they expected students to finish 142 credits in four years???

want some cheese with that wine?

Students with 120-credit majors usually don't even finish in four years anymore.

BS Engineering needs to be 5 yrs or maybe 6 with co-op sessions. It took me 4.5 yrs and ended up with about 147 hrs, with one 3 hr elective.

 

[dmspilot00]

Flywithastick,

Stop turning everything into an argument.

Events that have occurred in my life and the decisions I made are not open for debate!

 

[flywithastick]

Flywithastick,

Stop turning everything into an argument.

Events that have occurred in my life and the decisions I made are not open for debate!

Toughen up, Chief. If you don't want to get challenged, don't post comments an Internet bulletin board. You were making characterizations about a degree program you didn't finish. I did and had different viewpoint of the situation.

BTW - reread my comments. I was speaking generally. You do whatever you want.

happy flying!

 

[Bob]

To fly in the Air force you had to be commissioned and to be commissioned required a degree; I have a BBA. Aside from getting me in the Air Force where I received excellent training and experience, and leadership training; the degree has not contributed to my flying career, maybe even hurt it. Most of the aviation directors I've served under were highschool drop outs and felt threatened by college grads; not to mention prior military. The "or equivilent experience" in lieu of college clause was usually included in the hiring requirements they published so they could hire or promote those who posed no threat to their jobs.

But, as has been stated early, have something to fall back on. Additionally, in a corporate environment, an educated individual will better interact with the executives he flies. Some polish and quality communications and social skills will set a good image for your aviation department and enhance your image as a professional.

 

[Q200_FO]

???

I'm just sick and tired of telling people that you shouldn't get an aviation degree just because you need something else to talk about in the cockpit. You don't see accountants or lawyers or doctors try to avoid their field on purpose do you? Sure your time off is your time off but while we're in the cockpit we're at work. A doctor isn't going to purposely avoid medical topics while conversing with colleagues about work just because he wants something else to talk about just so he can remain "well rounded." I like my job and I like talking about it. Doctors, lawyers and other professional occupations have their inner circles with groups and associations just like we do and do you know what they gab about all day, their jobs! I used to work in the medical field so I know that first hand. It just seems to me that a lot of pilots are ashamed of their jobs and it shouldn't be that way.

 

[Herman Bloom]

A) Going to Riddle or the like in no way prepares one for airline training.
B) I went through airline training with a couple of them and they were par for the course.
C) Riddle is NOT considered a good school outside of aviation. Don't even try to argue this one.
D) Don't tell me about Riddle's "connections" either...I went to an ACC school, got a degree in English Lit, and then did an internship (you know, one of those reserved exclusively for those with degrees in aviation from an aviation university) and was hired at the airline where I'm currently employed.
E) Think anybody asked me in my interview how or why I was an intern but had not graduated from Riddle? Nope.
F) Think anybody asked me in my interview about my experience as an English major? Yep.

Don't drink the koolaid.

That said, go where you want to go and major in something that interests you. If that's aviation, well more power to ya.

Fly safe

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: ???

I'm just sick and tired of telling people that you shouldn't get an aviation degree just because you need something else to talk about in the cockpit.

I've never heard that reason before, but it's pretty silly. The best reason for having a degree in something else is that you have more options if you lose your license or medical for some reason. Or get furloughed.

 

[inline]

"Most of the aviation directors I've served under were highschool drop outs and felt threatened by college grads; not to mention prior military."



"Most of the' aviation directors' were high school dropouts?" Give me a break, who in the hell were you flying for? And that's nonsense about D.O.s feeling "threatened" by college grads and/or prior military. There may be other reasons a D.O. is reluctant to hire college grads and or military pilots; we all know the majors thinks the sun rises and sets on these guys. During hiring activity like we had a few years ago, why in the world would a D.O. hire these guys only to see them leave for the majors after investing thousands of dollars in them? Unless there is a training contract to recoup training costs, the non-college and non-military pilot is a much sounder investment if you're running a smaller airline. And these pilots are just as competant as anyone else.

 

[bart]

The school you attend is of utmost importance and the degree secondary. You can have a doctorate from Dave's All-Night Drive-In University and it won't mean squat, while a BA from a well-known university might open doors for you. All in all I have found that it is the people that you go to school with and stay in contact with that are the most helpful when the job hunt cranks up.

Aside from that, it is what you do and how you apply yourself once out of school that really matters. University is a demarcation from formal learning to informal learning, not an arrival (as in ERAU grads being ready to fly jets and/or run an airline). An ERAU degree or similar aviation program might help you if the interviewer or boss went to school there, but that is highly unlikely outside of aviation. I even know two corporate flight depts that round file ERAU resumes as a practice, and that is based on their prior experience with know-it-all graduates that explained to them in interviews how they would run their flight department WHEN they were hired.

My advice is go the best school you can get into, regardless of whether they have an aviation program or not. If you believe in the "have a back-up" you want a school that people have heard of outside of the state you live in. If it is known nationally, so much the better.

 

[VADriver]

Get a Non aviation degree. Soo many ERAU guys reluctantly admit thier alma mater.....

No matter what you do..get good grades so you have more choices...

Then read the Millionaire Next Door.....(makes me feel good for getting C's)