Avantair

[netjetwife]

The original post started out as and I quote:
"Haven't seen much about Avantair lately. Just wondering if anything new (rumor or real) is going down these days."
I don't see anything about Asking for a Union information.

"Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB."



_________________

Country, perhaps you could follow the logic tree better if you remained calmer. What I said was that the pilot who STARTED the thread asked about the union issue. He opened the thread with a general request for information. After 4 posts from 4 different people, Ill Mitch posted again. I quoted it for you once already, please go look on page one for yourself, it reads--
Since it looks like the thread is heading that way (which is fine), what is the current pilot attitude towards a union? Is it gaining momentum, or is it just talk?
I am taking more of an interest in this as I have a buddy who just forwarded my resume to the powers that be. Yup, after talking about it for a couple of eons, I finally sent a resume out!

My post prior to the REQUEST for info on the union movement, was a follow on to one made by ANOTHER poster (who has escaped your wrath) and didn't even speak of the union (as he did), but only the low wages at Avantair. I said--copied here as you have already admitted to a lazy streak

While that line was funny in the movie Top Gun, in real life it is no laughing matter. Truck drivers should never make more than pilots, but some do. I don't even want to think about how many. It makes my blood boil. Avantair managers are like many others. They'll toss out some crumbs to placate the crowd, and then return to feast at their golden table. Corporate greed is alive and well. Do you really think the pax would not be shocked to learn that their pilot(s) make less than a truck driver? Why don't we know the salaries of management? Someone's laughing all the way to the bank, and funny lines notwithstanding, I don't think it's the pilots of Avantair.

That post was intended to show sympathy and support for frac pilots, generally, and the Avantair pilots, specifically, and was accepted in the same spirit it was typed out. Learflyer spoke up with the following--

Whatever. I happen to love the ladies who are sticking up for us frac pilots. At least (before ibt 1108 came around ) somebody is!!

I choose the threads that I post on carefully, obviously paying more attention than you do. I defer to the pilot who starts the thread and also to the moderators that run the board. I trust those people to tell me if my posts are unacceptable. I don't let bullies run me off the board. I rarely use the ignore option, though, because I have no problem defending my position. I didn't hi-jack this thread and that is obvious to those who read carefully. All I have done is support frac pilots in their struggle for fairness. If you guys know of a better way (than following 1108's lead) to get them a good/fair contract, by all means, share that insight with us all. Perhaps their plight means nothing to you, however? Fortunately, they can turn to other pilots who are willing to help them in their attempt to reach the new industry standard.

 

[netjetwife]

Now your pissing me off!!! don't put words in my mouth!! Hidden agenda my ass!!
"Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB."

Question me!!! I question the individuals that post every single post as a one sided screeemm festival!!

__________________

I submit that you are the one screaming. I have politely pointed out to you that I was "on topic" according to the pilot who started this thread. Moreover, I offered to answer any question you may have about interviewing at NJA, planning to ask my husband the answers to questions that I didn't know myself. BTW, I did that tonight for another pilot. You could have started a thread of your own, seeking information, but you have chosen to remain here where a pilot asked about the union effort, instead. I do find that strange. I have only commented on your decision to complain about my posts rather than seek the information you supposedly came here for. I merely made an observation, backed up with examples.

I do question those who appear to have a hidden agenda. More complaints from him, instead of interview questions? Looks suspicious to me. There is also an "ignore" function on the board, (it would block my posts from showing up on your screen) but rather than use that, he's trying to get an entire group to discuss a relevant issue elsewhere? That's odd! Acting as though no one has posted links to union websites and offered to discuss specific topics in private, is either very unobservant (considering that that has already been done--granted, you may not be aware of that) or disingenuous.

I put no words into your mouth--there is no room, as your foot is taking up all of the space.
NJW

 

[country]

I submit that you are the one screaming. I have politely pointed out to you that I was "on topic" according to the pilot who started this thread. Moreover, I offered to answer any question you may have about interviewing at NJA, planning to ask my husband the answers to questions that I didn't know myself. BTW, I did that tonight for another pilot. You could have started a thread of your own, seeking information, but you have chosen to remain here where a pilot asked about the union effort, instead. I do find that strange. I have only commented on your decision to complain about my posts rather than seek the information you supposedly came here for. I merely made an observation, backed up with examples.

I do question those who appear to have a hidden agenda. More complaints from him, instead of interview questions? Looks suspicious to me. There is also an "ignore" function on the board, (it would block my posts from showing up on your screen) but rather than use that, he's trying to get an entire group to discuss a relevant issue elsewhere? That's odd! Acting as though no one has posted links to union websites and offered to discuss specific topics in private, is either very unobservant (considering that that has already been done--granted, you may not be aware of that) or disingenuous.

I put no words into your mouth--there is no room, as your foot is taking up all of the space.
NJW

Nice spin job. You seem to be very good at the ignore, deflect and divert method. Don't question my motive at all...its very simple...I have stated it in the previous posts. You do have the art of ignore, deflection and diversion down to a science and I commend you on your excellent spin abilities. You would make a great communist dictator. I find people that respond in this matter to be suspect (as you have called me) with regard to any agenda that they have chosen to promote. I'm calling a spade a spade on this one. I think your are a compensated representative for the union agenda. Your no more a netjet wife then a man on the moon. I'm also sure management places trolls on these boards as well. I suspect that you troll around on other professional aviator and none aviator boards as well doing your business. I don't care what your agenda is, but do not spin my written word to fit your agenda...thats crossing the line. Oh...I know what your response will be...what did I spin...yes folks another spin with another spin with another spin ..the waters get so muddy that the bottom can't be seen.

Everything you post should be validated and verified for accurate facts. Given my short sparing session with you and how you have responded I would place anything you have posted in the smells strange pile.

 

[Fozzy]

Take a pill.

Country,

First, NJW is just that. The wife of one of our own.
Second, she is unpaid. Just being supportive and informative. Hell, we are a union of volunteers.

 

[netjetwife]

I just got home from driving my son to school. The other drivers at the intersection probably thought that the torn up garage sale signs were mine, because I quickly hopped out of my car while waiting at the red light and scooped them up off the median. They were as wrong as you are. I simply don't like litter and am not too lazy to do something about it. Likewise, I don't like seeing professional pilots paid a fraction of what they're worth, and I don't mind posting about it. I'm no more paid by the union than I am by the city. As for spin--the word "appear" was already in my original post. It was always my own personal observation. As far as "ignore" goes. You're the one who ignores the opportunity you have to gather information--your stated goal--in lieu of trying to run me off the board.

The only other board I post on is the NJ pilots' board. Many of the pilots "know" me from there. Self-righteously proclaiming your opinion of my motive for posting and accusing me of spinning things is hypocritical in the extreme. I'm being compensated? I'm not a real wife? Who's spinning things here? All I have suggested about your motive for posting is that you're trying to stop a discussion of the union movement. That's pretty straight forward. We've all seen that on this board in the past. Diversion? You've certainly done that. I was having a dialog with Avbug before you diverted the conversation. I was standing up for the Avantair pilots and pointing out that there are consequences--well known by all, including management--to company policies that result in low morale. Because you didn't like the conversation, you sought to deflect the purpose of the thread, rather than using the ignore function for my post. We've all gathered that you're anti-union so why don't you go in search of that interview info you claim to be interested in? Could it be that you'd rather play communist dictator and stifle free speech? NJW Note:Both meanings of "free" should be applied.

 

[country]

I just got home from driving my son to school. The other drivers at the intersection probably thought that the torn up garage sale signs were mine, because I quickly hopped out of my car while waiting at the red light and scooped them up off the median. They were as wrong as you are. I simply don't like litter and am not too lazy to do something about it. Likewise, I don't like seeing professional pilots paid a fraction of what they're worth, and I don't mind posting about it. I'm no more paid by the union than I am by the city. As for spin--the word "appear" was already in my original post. It was always my own personal observation. As far as "ignore" goes. You're the one who ignores the opportunity you have to gather information--your stated goal--in lieu of trying to run me off the board.

The only other board I post on is the NJ pilots' board. Many of the pilots "know" me from there. Self-righteously proclaiming your opinion of my motive for posting and accusing me of spinning things is hypocritical in the extreme. I'm being compensated? I'm not a real wife? Who's spinning things here? All I have suggested about your motive for posting is that you're trying to stop a discussion of the union movement. That's pretty straight forward. We've all seen that on this board in the past. Diversion? You've certainly done that. I was having a dialog with Avbug before you diverted the conversation. I was standing up for the Avantair pilots and pointing out that there are consequences--well known by all, including management--to company policies that result in low morale. Because you didn't like the conversation, you sought to deflect the purpose of the thread, rather than using the ignore function for my post. We've all gathered that you're anti-union so why don't you go in search of that interview info you claim to be interested in? Could it be that you'd rather play communist dictator and stifle free speech? NJW Note:Both meanings of "free" should be applied.

Please stop this carnival ride all this spinning is making me dizzy...... I'm not accusing you of spinning things I'm telling you in plan english you are spinning things..my posts.
I'm trying to stop a discussion of the union movement...hey go talk away on another forum for the last time I will read the header and I repeat for the 4th time " Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB"
Diversion dialog with Avbug ..what the ...oh man I'm getting even more dizzy from the spinning....what about RoughAir's post in between Avbug and my post.
For lands sakes I'm gonna get sick if the spinning does not stop...we have all gathered that I am anti union? what the heck? I'm for whatever it takes...remember I fly for a living to....I have no problem with pilots making more money and doing whatever means necessarey to reach this goal. I support the union effort ...do whatever it takes, but you are out of control. You cannot hit the ignore button when your on the board ...just try to delete your post and read a forum board ...everybody gives up and goes away.
I was fine with your post though excessive and per the header not in the right place but when I posted my opinion you shot off on me like a canon. AGAIN go read my orininal post it was not directed to you but to a general group. You took it as your personal charter then twisted my words around. Thats when you have entered the begining of a real long argument. I have to go to work but rest assured you will not get the last word on this post.

 

[Geronimo4497]

So, um, hmmm, what's up at Avantair with regards to airplane deliveries?

 

[netjetwife]

Country, in trying to see things from your perspective, I took a look at the board, and came to the conclusion that the formatting may be causing your problem. The Fractional subheading reads-- Discuss fractionals and interview related information

Take a look at this section of the board and you will see that I've posted on only one third of the available threads from the first 2 pages. Only 3 from the first page. Look at those topics--general frac discussion, NJA, or the union movement. I didn't start any of the threads; I rarely do. I do not post on any of the interview threads, unless it is about NJA and there doesn't seem to be any NJ pilots answering questions. I usually wind up giving lots of info to potential new hires who PM me.

You joined this thread on page 4--the bottom, no less. Others of us had already been engaged in a conversation about fractional issues (which is allowed here) when you posted merely to complain about our choice of conversation. I find that extremely rude, no matter which way you try to spin it. I challenge anyone to read the entire thread. I was on topic, supporting frac pilots who are dealing with low morale and are showing interest in joining 1108. The group was discussing the union, but I was the only one singled out for your attack.

Country, I don't care about "the last word". And no, it's not because I've run out of intelligent ones to say. Another poster has a specific question and so the tone of the thread is changing. You see, that's all it takes. Common courtesy and the introduction of a particular topic. Not grand-standing, not complaining about what others in the thread are talking about, just ordinary politeness. I have no problem stepping aside when the discussion becomes technical or changes to a topic that doesn't hold my interest. But then, I also have enough consideration for others, not to join a thread that that isn't what I'm looking for in the first place. It's a basic etiquette rule that works well for me. I'm sure it'd serve you just as well.

Geronimo, if you were asking about NJ deliveries, I could answer your question. Perhaps one of the Avantair pilots can tell you. I've enjoyed my discussions with them.
NJW

 

[country]

netjetwife,
I just fell out of my chair after all this spinning today by you....Your like the bad preacher at a persons funeral. Spend three minutes talking about the poor soul in the box and the other 28 minutes trying to save souls. Talk about an agenda. You have twisted and turned every dialog (as you say) that we have had to fit your agenda and opinion. Twisting and turning my posts for your gain is unacceptable and will not be tolerated by me. Thats what started this whole mess with you.

You can flat out disagree and thats ok...You can say hey Knothead shut up your wrong and thats ok ....but what you have done is wrong...period. You crossed the line.


I apologize for all the other folks that have waded through this junk just to find minimal info about Avanti Air. I hope you understand that I just won't tolerate the type dialog netjet wife has had with me.

Country

 

[Paradoxus]

hmmm

I've got the interview coming up. From what I've seen on this forum, much of the company is cloaked in secrecy; I still havent got a proper picture of the place as a whole.

 

[netjetwife]

Offering food for thought----

Many more people only read this board compared to the number that post here. Given the size of the audience, it is not unlikely that one of them is grieving and has recently attended a funeral. Your analogy, Country, makes light of their pain. It brought to mind the experience I had at my brother's funeral. It was the only part of your post that I could identify with, but I disliked the association. Others may feel the same.

While I'm on the subject, Avbug, your post on this thread showed the same insensitivity. When I commented on your description of a gun held to a person's head as an exaggerated mockery for my use of the word exploitation, this is what I got. My post is in blue text. Your's follows it.
I find this part of your post offensive (and personally hurtful) as it makes light of the very real tragedies some families have been forced to endure. Two NJ families have had to face the murder--by gunshot--of a loved one.
Are you trying to tell me that netjets had two of their pilots murdered, shot to death? Or did you merely throw that in there to cloud the issue. If two pilots were murdered, what has that to do with the company, unless the company ordered it? Is it your assertion that Netjets caused the death of gunshot of two pilots in their employ? Your true colors are showing.

No, I was trying to tell you that two NJ pilots have had members of their extended family murdered. Recently one of the NJ pilots was robbed in front of a convenience store, but luckily, he wasn't injured. In the past few months, other NJ pilots have buried family members that died from various causes. Many pilots and their families read this board, not just to gather information, but as a general source of reading entertainment. I am asking you to give more thought to your posts, prior to hitting the submit bar.

This "free advice" applies to all of us who post here, but these two posts were particularly inconsiderate, especially as they were unnecessary. There were a number of other things that could have been said, in both cases, to get your point across. I don't see what death and tragedy have to do with the discussion. But I do know that the reminders weren't needed and ,surely, aren't welcome. This isn't conjecture on my part. The NJ pilots share the good and bad news from their lives. Births and deaths are announced on their board. Perhaps other groups do that, as well.

Paradoxus, from the few discussions I've had here with some of the Avantair pilots, I'd say there is some dissatisfaction among their pilots . If you search this forum, you may be able to learn more of the situation there, while waiting for Avantair pilots to respond to your question. I do agree with you that there is a lot to consider outside of the "nuts and bolts" of the interview. I think it's a good idea to gather as much information as you can about each company that you're looking at. "Look before you leap"
Good Luck!
NJW

 

[country]

Many more people only read this board compared to the number that post here. Given the size of the audience, it is not unlikely that one of them is grieving and has recently attended a funeral. Your analogy, Country, makes light of their pain. It brought to mind the experience I had at my brother's funeral. It was the only part of your post that I could identify with, but I disliked the association. Others may feel the same.

While I'm on the subject, Avbug, your post on this thread showed the same insensitivity. When I commented on your description of a gun held to a person's head as an exaggerated mockery for my use of the word exploitation, this is what I got. My post is in blue text. Your's follows it.
I find this part of your post offensive (and personally hurtful) as it makes light of the very real tragedies some families have been forced to endure. Two NJ families have had to face the murder--by gunshot--of a loved one.
Are you trying to tell me that netjets had two of their pilots murdered, shot to death? Or did you merely throw that in there to cloud the issue. If two pilots were murdered, what has that to do with the company, unless the company ordered it? Is it your assertion that Netjets caused the death of gunshot of two pilots in their employ? Your true colors are showing.

No, I was trying to tell you that two NJ pilots have had members of their extended family murdered. Recently one of the NJ pilots was robbed in front of a convenience store, but luckily, he wasn't injured. In the past few months, other NJ pilots have buried family members that died from various causes. Many pilots and their families read this board, not just to gather information, but as a general source of reading entertainment. I am asking you to give more thought to your posts, prior to hitting the submit bar.

This "free advice" applies to all of us who post here, but these two posts were particularly inconsiderate, especially as they were unnecessary. There were a number of other things that could have been said, in both cases, to get your point across. I don't see what death and tragedy have to do with the discussion. But I do know that the reminders weren't needed and ,surely, aren't welcome. This isn't conjecture on my part. The NJ pilots share the good and bad news from their lives. Births and deaths are announced on their board. Perhaps other groups do that, as well.

Paradoxus, from the few discussions I've had here with some of the Avantair pilots, I'd say there is some dissatisfaction among their pilots . If you search this forum, you may be able to learn more of the situation there, while waiting for Avantair pilots to respond to your question. I do agree with you that there is a lot to consider outside of the "nuts and bolts" of the interview. I think it's a good idea to gather as much information as you can about each company that you're looking at. "Look before you leap"
Good Luck!
NJW

Would you please quit twisting and spinning my posts. Cut it out. Stop it. NO MORE. You have jumped into the arena with the wrong bull and I'm not going to put up with your tactics.

I see you have decided to drag Avbug into this mess even though in a earlier post you stated that I jumped into the middle of a dialog between you and him. Post on another topic... Then this festival of exchanges between you and I will stop. I thought we were close to ending this exchange, but you had to saddle up for another ride.

"Country, makes light of their pain" You have got to be kidding me...right?

 

[netjetwife]

I had already planned to respond to Avbug's misinterpretation of my post, and to clarify its meaning. As the two shared the same theme--inappropriate use of tragic situations to mock others--I responded to both at the same time. I'm very serious. As is the subject that both of you raised without a thought to its real meaning in the lives of real people that read and/or post on this board. I'm just trying to get you to open your eyes and think outside the box.

I have responded to the other two pilots that entered the thread. I notice you ignored them. I believe it is courteous to acknowledge others who enter a "room" that I'm standing in. I wish the pilots well. Whether that is for information, a job in the frac industry, or a raise at the one they have.

By all means, put me on your ignore list and let the conversation between us cease. But I refuse to be ran off the board just because you don't like my posts. That is why the ignore function is there. Why not use it?

 

[country]

I had already planned to respond to Avbug's misinterpretation of my post, and to clarify its meaning. As the two shared the same theme--inappropriate use of tragic situations to mock others--I responded to both at the same time. I'm very serious. As is the subject that both of you raised without a thought to its real meaning in the lives of real people that read and/or post on this board. I'm just trying to get you to open your eyes and think outside the box.

I have responded to the other two pilots that entered the thread. I notice you ignored them. I believe it is courteous to acknowledge others who enter a "room" that I'm standing in. I wish the pilots well. Whether that is for information, a job in the frac industry, or a raise at the one they have.

By all means, put me on your ignore list and let the conversation between us cease. But I refuse to be ran off the board just because you don't like my posts. That is why the ignore function is there. Why not use it?

crickets......silence......ok....uh....mmmm....ok...uhmmm...r i g h t.

Well I think you actually lost me on this post?????
I can see by this last post that you have reached a point of grasping for straws or something that I have yet to understand in order to continue to feed the beast within. Thats fine if it makes you feel good go for it, but don't ever spin my post(s) again to fit your agenda or charter or whatever it is.
Once you have stopped trying to associate me with your post(s) then I will be more than happy to hit the ignore button.

 

[Propnose]

I've got a buddy who flies for Avantair, and I think that he said they have something like 30 new planes on order. Not sure if they are all scheduled to be delivered this year. If so... WOW!