Avantair

[netjetwife]

Country, in defense of those who post here regularly, we have all taken a turn answering questions about the interview process and the job in general. Like it or not, there are serious problems in the frac industry that must be addressed in order for the job to become an attractive career choice, rather than a stepping stone. It is far better for pilots interested in one of the frac companies to become fully aware of the situation before they are hired, rather than afterwards. Those seeking answers to specific questions either start a thread of their own or join a conversation on the topic.

This thread was opened for a general discussion of the latest news from Avantair. My posts were made to show disgust at the low wages those pilots are paid. The pilot who started this thread was the one to ask about the union---Since it looks like the thread is heading that way (which is fine), what is the current pilot attitude towards a union? Is it gaining momentum, or is it just talk? I am taking more of an interest in this as I have a buddy who just forwarded my resume to the powers that be. Yup, after talking about it for a couple of eons, I finally sent a resume out! It may not matter to you, but to many other pilots, gathering info on the union question is part of their decision making process. Because of the new CBA 1108 recently signed, pilots that would not have previously considered NJA, are now applying there. The possibility that other frac companies may follow in 1108's footsteps has generated new interest in those companies, too.

I don't think your chastisement was justified, nor do I think you represent the majority opinion that the union discussion should not be included here. As your post contained only complaints and no inquiries, one must question your motive for posting. Nonetheless, I will answer any question that you have about NJA. If I don't know the answer, I will ask my husband.

 

[SCT]

"As your post contained only complaints and no inquiries, one must question your motive for posting."....NJW

And what's your motivation for posting here, NJW? At least Country is a pilot.

 

[gunfyter]

I still think its arogent to state that your husband "can easily fill in for management." You want respect from them and you make statements like that? And like I said before, we are professionals as pilots but what we do is not rocket science...

I stand by my statements.

Dog gone right I can easily fill in for management.

I can do rocket science too.

 

[SCT]

Gunfyter,

 

[SCT]

Gunfyter, I'm sure you can. I have no problem w/ you or any other frac pilot. You guys work hard and deserve a large raise and QOL benifits.

 

[netjetwife]

"As your post contained only complaints and no inquiries, one must question your motive for posting."....NJW

And what's your motivation for posting here, NJW? At least Country is a pilot.

Those who pay attention, know exactly why I post here. It is well known that my family feels strongly about the frac pilots' struggle for professional treatment/compensation. I offer the family perspective and my support for their cause. Pilots and their spouses have expressed their appreciation for my efforts--both publicly and privately--in posts and PMs. The NJ CBA didn't end the fight. It expanded it. I have the same sympathy for the other frac families that I have for those at NJA. I was specifically asked to lend my voice to the unionizing effort (by pilots who post here) and I am happy to do what I can to cheer them on in their determination to stand up for themselves and their families. Need I say more?
NJW

STRONG CONVICTIONS RESULT IN STRONG MOTIVATION

 

[SCT]

So why are you questioning other (Country) peoples motives when you have a MAJOR agenda? At least he is part of a flight crew. And doesn't swing every thread toward union babble.

Like I said before you are arogent and pompus, NJW.

 

[xcrew]

Need I say more?
NJW

NO...........please!

 

[country]

Country, in defense of those who post here regularly, we have all taken a turn answering questions about the interview process and the job in general. Like it or not, there are serious problems in the frac industry that must be addressed in order for the job to become an attractive career choice, rather than a stepping stone. It is far better for pilots interested in one of the frac companies to become fully aware of the situation before they are hired, rather than afterwards. Those seeking answers to specific questions either start a thread of their own or join a conversation on the topic.

This thread was opened for a general discussion of the latest news from Avantair. My posts were made to show disgust at the low wages those pilots are paid. The pilot who started this thread was the one to ask about the union---Since it looks like the thread is heading that way (which is fine), what is the current pilot attitude towards a union? Is it gaining momentum, or is it just talk? I am taking more of an interest in this as I have a buddy who just forwarded my resume to the powers that be. Yup, after talking about it for a couple of eons, I finally sent a resume out! It may not matter to you, but to many other pilots, gathering info on the union question is part of their decision making process. Because of the new CBA 1108 recently signed, pilots that would not have previously considered NJA, are now applying there. The possibility that other frac companies may follow in 1108's footsteps has generated new interest in those companies, too.

I don't think your chastisement was justified, nor do I think you represent the majority opinion that the union discussion should not be included here. As your post contained only complaints and no inquiries, one must question your motive for posting. Nonetheless, I will answer any question that you have about NJA. If I don't know the answer, I will ask my husband.

Please read my post again with an objective view..not one sided. You can see that I am not taking sides with either union or mgt. The original poster said and I quote.
"Haven't seen much about Avantair lately. Just wondering if anything new (rumor or real) is going down these days." Given that this board is to be for

"Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB."

I would assume this person wants to talk about the interview, hiring etc... process at this company.

Im just tired of having to wade through 90% of whatever to get to good usable information. I Don't feel I have chastised you directly. Like I said earlier any pro union or pro mgt group that wants to really get down to brass post your phone number so you can be contacted. You might be suprised how this will help your charter and it will help clear up alot of non-aviation interview chatter on these boards. As far as motives yes I admit I have one...to be able to acquire information about the interview and potential hiring status for frac companies without wasting time on non related issues. Maybe we need a pro mgt and pro union forum so you guys and gals can go talk about your issues and leave this board for what it was created for.

regards,
Country

 

[netjetwife]

So why are you questioning other (Country) peoples motives when you have a MAJOR agenda? At least he is part of a flight crew. And doesn't swing every thread toward union babble.

Like I said before you are arogent and pompus, NJW.

SCT--Apparently, you have a hard time following examples and/or taking a subtle hint. Frankly, it doesn't bother me in the slightest to be put down by a person too lazy to use a spell-checker, and too unobservant/uncaring to correct mistakes when the proper spelling was provided for them. I have already responded to this, perhaps you missed it? Here it is again--As for my being "arogent and pompious"? I think that a truly arrogant, pompous person wouldn't even bother responding to your posts. I do so because of my strong sense of fair play, which compels me to set the record straight. I deliberately put the words side-by-side to help you out. SCT, I see no reason to care about your opinion that is so carelessly expressed. I gladly listen to those whom I respect. I, also, rely on the board moderators to judge who is allowed to post and what is suitable discussion. I am not so arrogant or pompous that I would presume to tell them how to run the board.

I tried to point out to Country that the pilot who opened this thread ASKED about the union situation. I post selectively on the board, joining conversations that discuss the frac industry in general and 1108 specifically. I am very open about my "agenda" to support those pilots taking a stand against corporate greed. I do question those who appear to have a hidden agenda. More complaints from him, instead of interview questions? Looks suspicious to me. There is also an "ignore" function on the board, but rather than use that, he's trying to get an entire group to discuss a relevant issue elsewhere? That's odd! Acting as though no one has posted links to union websites and offered to discuss specific topics in private, is either very unobservant (considering that that has already been done) or disingenuous.

Rest assured, should the regulars (that I hold in esteem) on this forum ever ask me to stop posting, I'd honor the request. This, however, is a critical time for the frac pilots/families and I'm happy to lend my voice to their cause--just as they asked me to. For the skeptics among you--a disclaimer. That request came from frac pilots and was made to the wife of a NJ pilot/1108 volunteer, and is not connected to Teamsters in any way. I'm not going away so do feel free to put me on your ignore list if you don't want to "listen" to me cheering on those pilots who care enough to fight for what is right.
Netjetwife

A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS BUT PADDLING IS REQUIRED

UPHILL BATTLES ARE WON A STEP--OR A POST-- AT A TIME

 

[SCT]

NJW, Keep on drinking your Cool Aid and cluttering every post with your non-stop babble. You act like you are Mother Theresa on a crusade... Are you being paid to post this crap?
SCT

You are observent, though. I am a terrible speller and to lazy to use spell check.

 

[netjetwife]

Gunfyter,

Those of us from the NJ group that post here regularly, (GF is just one of them) usually opt to get the emailed notices when someone replies to a thread we have posted on. I know that most of them would probably have quoted the original post, but I'm honoring your decision to delete most of it. At the risk of being called arrogant, again, I'm giving you the information you sought. I am well known to NJ pilots who read this board. Many of them talk about my posts to one another and to my husband. The general opinion has been favorable. I think that adding me to your ignore list may solve your problem, as I post here with the support and "blessing" of the pilots. I asked what they thought, long before that idea crossed your mind.

I can't help but smile at the irony of your original post. I first heard of Flightinfo on the NJ board. I came to watch the NJ pilots--Gunfyter was one of them-- fight for our group and became so outraged that I joined the battle. So you see, he's one of the pilots you have to thank for my annoying presence on this board.

 

[country]

SCT--Apparently, you have a hard time following examples and/or taking a subtle hint. Frankly, it doesn't bother me in the slightest to be put down by a person too lazy to use a spell-checker, and too unobservant/uncaring to correct mistakes when the proper spelling was provided for them. I have already responded to this, perhaps you missed it? Here it is again--As for my being "arogent and pompious"? I think that a truly arrogant, pompous person wouldn't even bother responding to your posts. I do so because of my strong sense of fair play, which compels me to set the record straight. I deliberately put the words side-by-side to help you out. SCT, I see no reason to care about your opinion that is so carelessly expressed. I gladly listen to those whom I respect. I, also, rely on the board moderators to judge who is allowed to post and what is suitable discussion. I am not so arrogant or pompous that I would presume to tell them how to run the board.

I tried to point out to Country that the pilot who opened this thread ASKED about the union situation. I post selectively on the board, joining conversations that discuss the frac industry in general and 1108 specifically. I am very open about my "agenda" to support those pilots taking a stand against corporate greed. I do question those who appear to have a hidden agenda. More complaints from him, instead of interview questions? Looks suspicious to me. There is also an "ignore" function on the board, but rather than use that, he's trying to get an entire group to discuss a relevant issue elsewhere? That's odd! Acting as though no one has posted links to union websites and offered to discuss specific topics in private, is either very unobservant (considering that that has already been done) or disingenuous.

Rest assured, should the regulars (that I hold in esteem) on this forum ever ask me to stop posting, I'd honor the request. This, however, is a critical time for the frac pilots/families and I'm happy to lend my voice to their cause--just as they asked me to. For the skeptics among you--a disclaimer. That request came from frac pilots and was made to the wife of a NJ pilot/1108 volunteer, and is not connected to Teamsters in any way. I'm not going away so do feel free to put me on your ignore list if you don't want to "listen" to me cheering on those pilots who care enough to fight for what is right.
Netjetwife

A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS BUT PADDLING IS REQUIRED

UPHILL BATTLES ARE WON A STEP--OR A POST-- AT A TIME

Now your pissing me off!!! don't put words in my mouth!! Hidden agenda my ass!! Your spinning your agenda and flinging it like a freaking monkey slinging crap at the zoo.!
The original post started out as and I quote:
"Haven't seen much about Avantair lately. Just wondering if anything new (rumor or real) is going down these days."
I don't see anything about Asking for a Union information.

I don't have a hidden agenda its very open....I'm trying to get knot heads like you to go to another forum section given that this one... for the third time I have to repeat... is listed under and I freaking quote again

"Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB."

Question me!!! I question the individuals that post every single post as a one sided screeemm festival!!

Man you have pissed me off to no end this time. I've tried to explain my thoughts in a professional manner and you fire back with a bunch of B.S. spin. Son of a bitch the more I go back a read your ignorant post the more pissed off I get!!

I'm so freaking Mad!!!! ....I'm going to send you a fence post so you can either ride it or argue with it your choice...Trust me this pissing contest is far from over.




__________________

 

[SCT]

NJW,

Like I stated before, I totally support all frac flight crews and their drive for better pay and benifits. I even quasi respect your ultimate goal. But I do not respect your constant baragge of "union" propaganda (my words) on a flight crew oriented web board. Nor do I approve of your tactics. We will never agree, so I do think the best option is the ignore feature for both of us.

Cheers- SCT

 

[country]

I'm still mad as hell!!! I started thinking about your " hit the ignore button comment" you can't hit the ignore button because you continue to hijack threads and drive your agenda to the ground or rather beat everybody into submission with your agenda....But... YOU screwed up when you started twisting my words around to fit your needs. I am a patient person but when it comes to screwing around with my written or spoken word and trying to put words in my mouth then you have crossed the line...like I said earlier this pissing contest is far from over.

 

[netjetwife]

The original post started out as and I quote:
"Haven't seen much about Avantair lately. Just wondering if anything new (rumor or real) is going down these days."
I don't see anything about Asking for a Union information.

"Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB."



_________________

Country, perhaps you could follow the logic tree better if you remained calmer. What I said was that the pilot who STARTED the thread asked about the union issue. He opened the thread with a general request for information. After 4 posts from 4 different people, Ill Mitch posted again. I quoted it for you once already, please go look on page one for yourself, it reads--
Since it looks like the thread is heading that way (which is fine), what is the current pilot attitude towards a union? Is it gaining momentum, or is it just talk?
I am taking more of an interest in this as I have a buddy who just forwarded my resume to the powers that be. Yup, after talking about it for a couple of eons, I finally sent a resume out!

My post prior to the REQUEST for info on the union movement, was a follow on to one made by ANOTHER poster (who has escaped your wrath) and didn't even speak of the union (as he did), but only the low wages at Avantair. I said--copied here as you have already admitted to a lazy streak

While that line was funny in the movie Top Gun, in real life it is no laughing matter. Truck drivers should never make more than pilots, but some do. I don't even want to think about how many. It makes my blood boil. Avantair managers are like many others. They'll toss out some crumbs to placate the crowd, and then return to feast at their golden table. Corporate greed is alive and well. Do you really think the pax would not be shocked to learn that their pilot(s) make less than a truck driver? Why don't we know the salaries of management? Someone's laughing all the way to the bank, and funny lines notwithstanding, I don't think it's the pilots of Avantair.

That post was intended to show sympathy and support for frac pilots, generally, and the Avantair pilots, specifically, and was accepted in the same spirit it was typed out. Learflyer spoke up with the following--

Whatever. I happen to love the ladies who are sticking up for us frac pilots. At least (before ibt 1108 came around ) somebody is!!

I choose the threads that I post on carefully, obviously paying more attention than you do. I defer to the pilot who starts the thread and also to the moderators that run the board. I trust those people to tell me if my posts are unacceptable. I don't let bullies run me off the board. I rarely use the ignore option, though, because I have no problem defending my position. I didn't hi-jack this thread and that is obvious to those who read carefully. All I have done is support frac pilots in their struggle for fairness. If you guys know of a better way (than following 1108's lead) to get them a good/fair contract, by all means, share that insight with us all. Perhaps their plight means nothing to you, however? Fortunately, they can turn to other pilots who are willing to help them in their attempt to reach the new industry standard.

 

[netjetwife]

Now your pissing me off!!! don't put words in my mouth!! Hidden agenda my ass!!
"Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB."

Question me!!! I question the individuals that post every single post as a one sided screeemm festival!!

__________________

I submit that you are the one screaming. I have politely pointed out to you that I was "on topic" according to the pilot who started this thread. Moreover, I offered to answer any question you may have about interviewing at NJA, planning to ask my husband the answers to questions that I didn't know myself. BTW, I did that tonight for another pilot. You could have started a thread of your own, seeking information, but you have chosen to remain here where a pilot asked about the union effort, instead. I do find that strange. I have only commented on your decision to complain about my posts rather than seek the information you supposedly came here for. I merely made an observation, backed up with examples.

I do question those who appear to have a hidden agenda. More complaints from him, instead of interview questions? Looks suspicious to me. There is also an "ignore" function on the board, (it would block my posts from showing up on your screen) but rather than use that, he's trying to get an entire group to discuss a relevant issue elsewhere? That's odd! Acting as though no one has posted links to union websites and offered to discuss specific topics in private, is either very unobservant (considering that that has already been done--granted, you may not be aware of that) or disingenuous.

I put no words into your mouth--there is no room, as your foot is taking up all of the space.
NJW

 

[country]

I submit that you are the one screaming. I have politely pointed out to you that I was "on topic" according to the pilot who started this thread. Moreover, I offered to answer any question you may have about interviewing at NJA, planning to ask my husband the answers to questions that I didn't know myself. BTW, I did that tonight for another pilot. You could have started a thread of your own, seeking information, but you have chosen to remain here where a pilot asked about the union effort, instead. I do find that strange. I have only commented on your decision to complain about my posts rather than seek the information you supposedly came here for. I merely made an observation, backed up with examples.

I do question those who appear to have a hidden agenda. More complaints from him, instead of interview questions? Looks suspicious to me. There is also an "ignore" function on the board, (it would block my posts from showing up on your screen) but rather than use that, he's trying to get an entire group to discuss a relevant issue elsewhere? That's odd! Acting as though no one has posted links to union websites and offered to discuss specific topics in private, is either very unobservant (considering that that has already been done--granted, you may not be aware of that) or disingenuous.

I put no words into your mouth--there is no room, as your foot is taking up all of the space.
NJW

Nice spin job. You seem to be very good at the ignore, deflect and divert method. Don't question my motive at all...its very simple...I have stated it in the previous posts. You do have the art of ignore, deflection and diversion down to a science and I commend you on your excellent spin abilities. You would make a great communist dictator. I find people that respond in this matter to be suspect (as you have called me) with regard to any agenda that they have chosen to promote. I'm calling a spade a spade on this one. I think your are a compensated representative for the union agenda. Your no more a netjet wife then a man on the moon. I'm also sure management places trolls on these boards as well. I suspect that you troll around on other professional aviator and none aviator boards as well doing your business. I don't care what your agenda is, but do not spin my written word to fit your agenda...thats crossing the line. Oh...I know what your response will be...what did I spin...yes folks another spin with another spin with another spin ..the waters get so muddy that the bottom can't be seen.

Everything you post should be validated and verified for accurate facts. Given my short sparing session with you and how you have responded I would place anything you have posted in the smells strange pile.

 

[Fozzy]

Take a pill.

Country,

First, NJW is just that. The wife of one of our own.
Second, she is unpaid. Just being supportive and informative. Hell, we are a union of volunteers.

 

[netjetwife]

I just got home from driving my son to school. The other drivers at the intersection probably thought that the torn up garage sale signs were mine, because I quickly hopped out of my car while waiting at the red light and scooped them up off the median. They were as wrong as you are. I simply don't like litter and am not too lazy to do something about it. Likewise, I don't like seeing professional pilots paid a fraction of what they're worth, and I don't mind posting about it. I'm no more paid by the union than I am by the city. As for spin--the word "appear" was already in my original post. It was always my own personal observation. As far as "ignore" goes. You're the one who ignores the opportunity you have to gather information--your stated goal--in lieu of trying to run me off the board.

The only other board I post on is the NJ pilots' board. Many of the pilots "know" me from there. Self-righteously proclaiming your opinion of my motive for posting and accusing me of spinning things is hypocritical in the extreme. I'm being compensated? I'm not a real wife? Who's spinning things here? All I have suggested about your motive for posting is that you're trying to stop a discussion of the union movement. That's pretty straight forward. We've all seen that on this board in the past. Diversion? You've certainly done that. I was having a dialog with Avbug before you diverted the conversation. I was standing up for the Avantair pilots and pointing out that there are consequences--well known by all, including management--to company policies that result in low morale. Because you didn't like the conversation, you sought to deflect the purpose of the thread, rather than using the ignore function for my post. We've all gathered that you're anti-union so why don't you go in search of that interview info you claim to be interested in? Could it be that you'd rather play communist dictator and stifle free speech? NJW Note:Both meanings of "free" should be applied.