Avantair

[country]

I just got home from driving my son to school. The other drivers at the intersection probably thought that the torn up garage sale signs were mine, because I quickly hopped out of my car while waiting at the red light and scooped them up off the median. They were as wrong as you are. I simply don't like litter and am not too lazy to do something about it. Likewise, I don't like seeing professional pilots paid a fraction of what they're worth, and I don't mind posting about it. I'm no more paid by the union than I am by the city. As for spin--the word "appear" was already in my original post. It was always my own personal observation. As far as "ignore" goes. You're the one who ignores the opportunity you have to gather information--your stated goal--in lieu of trying to run me off the board.

The only other board I post on is the NJ pilots' board. Many of the pilots "know" me from there. Self-righteously proclaiming your opinion of my motive for posting and accusing me of spinning things is hypocritical in the extreme. I'm being compensated? I'm not a real wife? Who's spinning things here? All I have suggested about your motive for posting is that you're trying to stop a discussion of the union movement. That's pretty straight forward. We've all seen that on this board in the past. Diversion? You've certainly done that. I was having a dialog with Avbug before you diverted the conversation. I was standing up for the Avantair pilots and pointing out that there are consequences--well known by all, including management--to company policies that result in low morale. Because you didn't like the conversation, you sought to deflect the purpose of the thread, rather than using the ignore function for my post. We've all gathered that you're anti-union so why don't you go in search of that interview info you claim to be interested in? Could it be that you'd rather play communist dictator and stifle free speech? NJW Note:Both meanings of "free" should be applied.

Please stop this carnival ride all this spinning is making me dizzy...... I'm not accusing you of spinning things I'm telling you in plan english you are spinning things..my posts.
I'm trying to stop a discussion of the union movement...hey go talk away on another forum for the last time I will read the header and I repeat for the 4th time " Discussion pertaining to Aviation Interviews ONLY. All other infomation should be on the AMB"
Diversion dialog with Avbug ..what the ...oh man I'm getting even more dizzy from the spinning....what about RoughAir's post in between Avbug and my post.
For lands sakes I'm gonna get sick if the spinning does not stop...we have all gathered that I am anti union? what the heck? I'm for whatever it takes...remember I fly for a living to....I have no problem with pilots making more money and doing whatever means necessarey to reach this goal. I support the union effort ...do whatever it takes, but you are out of control. You cannot hit the ignore button when your on the board ...just try to delete your post and read a forum board ...everybody gives up and goes away.
I was fine with your post though excessive and per the header not in the right place but when I posted my opinion you shot off on me like a canon. AGAIN go read my orininal post it was not directed to you but to a general group. You took it as your personal charter then twisted my words around. Thats when you have entered the begining of a real long argument. I have to go to work but rest assured you will not get the last word on this post.

 

[Geronimo4497]

So, um, hmmm, what's up at Avantair with regards to airplane deliveries?

 

[netjetwife]

Country, in trying to see things from your perspective, I took a look at the board, and came to the conclusion that the formatting may be causing your problem. The Fractional subheading reads-- Discuss fractionals and interview related information

Take a look at this section of the board and you will see that I've posted on only one third of the available threads from the first 2 pages. Only 3 from the first page. Look at those topics--general frac discussion, NJA, or the union movement. I didn't start any of the threads; I rarely do. I do not post on any of the interview threads, unless it is about NJA and there doesn't seem to be any NJ pilots answering questions. I usually wind up giving lots of info to potential new hires who PM me.

You joined this thread on page 4--the bottom, no less. Others of us had already been engaged in a conversation about fractional issues (which is allowed here) when you posted merely to complain about our choice of conversation. I find that extremely rude, no matter which way you try to spin it. I challenge anyone to read the entire thread. I was on topic, supporting frac pilots who are dealing with low morale and are showing interest in joining 1108. The group was discussing the union, but I was the only one singled out for your attack.

Country, I don't care about "the last word". And no, it's not because I've run out of intelligent ones to say. Another poster has a specific question and so the tone of the thread is changing. You see, that's all it takes. Common courtesy and the introduction of a particular topic. Not grand-standing, not complaining about what others in the thread are talking about, just ordinary politeness. I have no problem stepping aside when the discussion becomes technical or changes to a topic that doesn't hold my interest. But then, I also have enough consideration for others, not to join a thread that that isn't what I'm looking for in the first place. It's a basic etiquette rule that works well for me. I'm sure it'd serve you just as well.

Geronimo, if you were asking about NJ deliveries, I could answer your question. Perhaps one of the Avantair pilots can tell you. I've enjoyed my discussions with them.
NJW

 

[country]

netjetwife,
I just fell out of my chair after all this spinning today by you....Your like the bad preacher at a persons funeral. Spend three minutes talking about the poor soul in the box and the other 28 minutes trying to save souls. Talk about an agenda. You have twisted and turned every dialog (as you say) that we have had to fit your agenda and opinion. Twisting and turning my posts for your gain is unacceptable and will not be tolerated by me. Thats what started this whole mess with you.

You can flat out disagree and thats ok...You can say hey Knothead shut up your wrong and thats ok ....but what you have done is wrong...period. You crossed the line.


I apologize for all the other folks that have waded through this junk just to find minimal info about Avanti Air. I hope you understand that I just won't tolerate the type dialog netjet wife has had with me.

Country

 

[Paradoxus]

hmmm

I've got the interview coming up. From what I've seen on this forum, much of the company is cloaked in secrecy; I still havent got a proper picture of the place as a whole.

 

[netjetwife]

Offering food for thought----

Many more people only read this board compared to the number that post here. Given the size of the audience, it is not unlikely that one of them is grieving and has recently attended a funeral. Your analogy, Country, makes light of their pain. It brought to mind the experience I had at my brother's funeral. It was the only part of your post that I could identify with, but I disliked the association. Others may feel the same.

While I'm on the subject, Avbug, your post on this thread showed the same insensitivity. When I commented on your description of a gun held to a person's head as an exaggerated mockery for my use of the word exploitation, this is what I got. My post is in blue text. Your's follows it.
I find this part of your post offensive (and personally hurtful) as it makes light of the very real tragedies some families have been forced to endure. Two NJ families have had to face the murder--by gunshot--of a loved one.
Are you trying to tell me that netjets had two of their pilots murdered, shot to death? Or did you merely throw that in there to cloud the issue. If two pilots were murdered, what has that to do with the company, unless the company ordered it? Is it your assertion that Netjets caused the death of gunshot of two pilots in their employ? Your true colors are showing.

No, I was trying to tell you that two NJ pilots have had members of their extended family murdered. Recently one of the NJ pilots was robbed in front of a convenience store, but luckily, he wasn't injured. In the past few months, other NJ pilots have buried family members that died from various causes. Many pilots and their families read this board, not just to gather information, but as a general source of reading entertainment. I am asking you to give more thought to your posts, prior to hitting the submit bar.

This "free advice" applies to all of us who post here, but these two posts were particularly inconsiderate, especially as they were unnecessary. There were a number of other things that could have been said, in both cases, to get your point across. I don't see what death and tragedy have to do with the discussion. But I do know that the reminders weren't needed and ,surely, aren't welcome. This isn't conjecture on my part. The NJ pilots share the good and bad news from their lives. Births and deaths are announced on their board. Perhaps other groups do that, as well.

Paradoxus, from the few discussions I've had here with some of the Avantair pilots, I'd say there is some dissatisfaction among their pilots . If you search this forum, you may be able to learn more of the situation there, while waiting for Avantair pilots to respond to your question. I do agree with you that there is a lot to consider outside of the "nuts and bolts" of the interview. I think it's a good idea to gather as much information as you can about each company that you're looking at. "Look before you leap"
Good Luck!
NJW

 

[country]

Many more people only read this board compared to the number that post here. Given the size of the audience, it is not unlikely that one of them is grieving and has recently attended a funeral. Your analogy, Country, makes light of their pain. It brought to mind the experience I had at my brother's funeral. It was the only part of your post that I could identify with, but I disliked the association. Others may feel the same.

While I'm on the subject, Avbug, your post on this thread showed the same insensitivity. When I commented on your description of a gun held to a person's head as an exaggerated mockery for my use of the word exploitation, this is what I got. My post is in blue text. Your's follows it.
I find this part of your post offensive (and personally hurtful) as it makes light of the very real tragedies some families have been forced to endure. Two NJ families have had to face the murder--by gunshot--of a loved one.
Are you trying to tell me that netjets had two of their pilots murdered, shot to death? Or did you merely throw that in there to cloud the issue. If two pilots were murdered, what has that to do with the company, unless the company ordered it? Is it your assertion that Netjets caused the death of gunshot of two pilots in their employ? Your true colors are showing.

No, I was trying to tell you that two NJ pilots have had members of their extended family murdered. Recently one of the NJ pilots was robbed in front of a convenience store, but luckily, he wasn't injured. In the past few months, other NJ pilots have buried family members that died from various causes. Many pilots and their families read this board, not just to gather information, but as a general source of reading entertainment. I am asking you to give more thought to your posts, prior to hitting the submit bar.

This "free advice" applies to all of us who post here, but these two posts were particularly inconsiderate, especially as they were unnecessary. There were a number of other things that could have been said, in both cases, to get your point across. I don't see what death and tragedy have to do with the discussion. But I do know that the reminders weren't needed and ,surely, aren't welcome. This isn't conjecture on my part. The NJ pilots share the good and bad news from their lives. Births and deaths are announced on their board. Perhaps other groups do that, as well.

Paradoxus, from the few discussions I've had here with some of the Avantair pilots, I'd say there is some dissatisfaction among their pilots . If you search this forum, you may be able to learn more of the situation there, while waiting for Avantair pilots to respond to your question. I do agree with you that there is a lot to consider outside of the "nuts and bolts" of the interview. I think it's a good idea to gather as much information as you can about each company that you're looking at. "Look before you leap"
Good Luck!
NJW

Would you please quit twisting and spinning my posts. Cut it out. Stop it. NO MORE. You have jumped into the arena with the wrong bull and I'm not going to put up with your tactics.

I see you have decided to drag Avbug into this mess even though in a earlier post you stated that I jumped into the middle of a dialog between you and him. Post on another topic... Then this festival of exchanges between you and I will stop. I thought we were close to ending this exchange, but you had to saddle up for another ride.

"Country, makes light of their pain" You have got to be kidding me...right?

 

[netjetwife]

I had already planned to respond to Avbug's misinterpretation of my post, and to clarify its meaning. As the two shared the same theme--inappropriate use of tragic situations to mock others--I responded to both at the same time. I'm very serious. As is the subject that both of you raised without a thought to its real meaning in the lives of real people that read and/or post on this board. I'm just trying to get you to open your eyes and think outside the box.

I have responded to the other two pilots that entered the thread. I notice you ignored them. I believe it is courteous to acknowledge others who enter a "room" that I'm standing in. I wish the pilots well. Whether that is for information, a job in the frac industry, or a raise at the one they have.

By all means, put me on your ignore list and let the conversation between us cease. But I refuse to be ran off the board just because you don't like my posts. That is why the ignore function is there. Why not use it?

 

[country]

I had already planned to respond to Avbug's misinterpretation of my post, and to clarify its meaning. As the two shared the same theme--inappropriate use of tragic situations to mock others--I responded to both at the same time. I'm very serious. As is the subject that both of you raised without a thought to its real meaning in the lives of real people that read and/or post on this board. I'm just trying to get you to open your eyes and think outside the box.

I have responded to the other two pilots that entered the thread. I notice you ignored them. I believe it is courteous to acknowledge others who enter a "room" that I'm standing in. I wish the pilots well. Whether that is for information, a job in the frac industry, or a raise at the one they have.

By all means, put me on your ignore list and let the conversation between us cease. But I refuse to be ran off the board just because you don't like my posts. That is why the ignore function is there. Why not use it?

crickets......silence......ok....uh....mmmm....ok...uhmmm...r i g h t.

Well I think you actually lost me on this post?????
I can see by this last post that you have reached a point of grasping for straws or something that I have yet to understand in order to continue to feed the beast within. Thats fine if it makes you feel good go for it, but don't ever spin my post(s) again to fit your agenda or charter or whatever it is.
Once you have stopped trying to associate me with your post(s) then I will be more than happy to hit the ignore button.

 

[Propnose]

I've got a buddy who flies for Avantair, and I think that he said they have something like 30 new planes on order. Not sure if they are all scheduled to be delivered this year. If so... WOW!

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I feel uncomfortable accepting tips. But I could use the money. Should pilots take tips?

 

[Just Peachy]

tips

I feel uncomfortable accepting tips. But I could use the money. Should pilots take tips?

If ya gotta ask.........your in the wrong BIZ

 

[gunfyter]

Tutti Frutti in the Third at Aquaduct.

 

[netjetwife]

Prop, last fall RTS was quoted in a Wall Street Journal article bragging about the upswing in business aviation in general, and NJ in particular. Allowing for production time, it makes sense that we're now hearing about the anticipated deliveries. What's good for the companies should be good for the pilots as well, right? It's a positive sign when the small companies are doing well, too.


A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS


I will leave it for the more discerning members of the board to take what they will from my well intentioned posts. I meant every word that I typed. I chose them carefully. At their core is consideration for others while we exercise our right to free speech. I do believe that it is possible to do both at the same time, and that this forum is open enough to accommodate a wide variety of opinions.
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

I feel uncomfortable accepting tips. But I could use the money. Should pilots take tips?

Though it would be in very bad taste to expect, hint, etc., likewise if you are offered a tip, when you have performed services above and beyond flying the plane, you are completely within the rules of society to accept the tip which you have, indeed, earned, according to the experts on etiquette. The key is the personal services. That's when pilots should be tipped. I researched etiquette rules on the internet for that information. I'm not claiming I'm the expert, though I was called "miss Manners" in grade school.

Sctt, smile and say thank you. To do less would only serve to embarrass the pax and that would be both rude and unprofessional. The pax is the best judge of what they appreciate and how they wish to express that appreciation.

 

[angryoneincher]

I've got the interview coming up. From what I've seen on this forum, much of the company is cloaked in secrecy; I still havent got a proper picture of the place as a whole.

The best advice coming from a person who works there is to look elsewhere for employment, because chances are you will be anyway in a few months, either because you didn't agree with management about something, or because you realized that you are losing your self-respect by continuing on. That being said, the success of your interview will depend on whether or not the assistant chief pilot likes you, not based on your knowledge or professionalism. Keep in mind, for at least a year, they used to pull out an approach plate for Aspen and ask questions about it. Took them a year to figure out that THEY were the ones who were wrong about the missed approach procedure. Wonder how many good people they weeded out over that............ get the picture?

 

[angryoneincher]

So, um, hmmm, what's up at Avantair with regards to airplane deliveries?

Dont have the answer to that, but someone sent me pictures of the new paint scheme for the Avantair Avantis. OMG, we will be flying the ugliest airplanes ever seen in the sky.

 

[brewerdog]

wow, what a change, now it's Avantair clogging the board, not NJA

the plan is to get several new planes but over the next few years, the number I have heard is 1 every 3 to 4 weeks but...

if you want to talk about interviews, let me know

 

[Paradoxus]

hmmmm

Is there some kind of training contract involved? Details?

 

[angryoneincher]

Is there some kind of training contract involved? Details?

unless it changed, 18,000 if you dont give them a year.