Avantair

[Jolimon]

I am all about bashing management, but didn't some fairly significant raises just go through? From talking to several people on the inside, these discussions have been going on since the new owner came into town. I am not about to hand my future over to netjetwife!

 

[Jim]

I am all about bashing management, but didn't some fairly significant raises just go through? From talking to several people on the inside, these discussions have been going on since the new owner came into town. I am not about to hand my future over to netjetwife!

I normally stay out of the Avantair threads since I haven't worked there for a couple of years but.....YOU ARE MANAGEMENT! Quit trying to pretend you're not.

 

[netjetwife]

Oh, NJW, my comments were never made regarding something I knew nothing about, nor regarding a situation whence I was never present. My comments, and my disgust (which offends you so greatly) are based strictly and only on what was posted here. My point exactly, Avbug! We can only go by the words of the poster, and it is the words themelves which disgust. We were told that an owner found it amazing that the pilots were as nice as they are given the circumstances, and that disgusts you?! Beyond that, further affiant saith naught. Fine. I, personally, thought you had over reacted as it was.

You advise others to do the minimum, to do their job. My advice and my condemnation is that those who do not do their utmost and their best are liars, cheats, and fools, and poor practioners of their craft. You take the job, you do your best, regardless of the pay. Period. Anything less is shear dishonesty. You adovcate dishonesty, do you? What a warped viewpoint! According to your logic, workers should put in 12 hours a day even if they are only paid for 8. They should keep working until they're tired, regardless of how long they were scheduled to work. Is that what you think? Aren't you forgetting that the notion of an honest day's work was based on the understanding that the worker was given a fair wage? What I am suggesting to the pilots is that their companies will never feel the need to pay them professional salaries if they're able to get it all for blue-collar wages. As you are turning this into a moral discussion, I propose that management is being dishonest when they mislead pilots during interviews and continually make false promises after they take the job.


Do the minimum to get by. Don't stand out. Don't do your utmost, don't do your best. Not until they pay you more. Not until you get what you want. Be average. Do the minimum. Just do what you have to do to keep your job, nothing more...after all, why be a professional? Professional pilots are paid to get the pax from point A to point B, safely. Period. They are not paid to be excited about the job. The company hires others to do scheduling. Pilots aren't required to cut short their break time just because the pax showed up early. Frac pilots are paid to make the catering available to the pax. If the hotdogs come still in the package, uncooked, it's not the pilot's job to use the FBO grill to cook them. (true example)

You call that a tactic. I call that dishonesty.

I disagree. Here's an example of dishonesty--the flight crew tells the pax they haven't finished their lunch break when they had actually used the full hour (or whatever agreed upon time they had coming to them).

I am advising that pilots be safe and civil. That is what you are paid to do. That is the professional skill you were hired for. Too many frac companies want their pilots to fix the mistakes others make from scheduling to catering. They want you to run yourselves ragged and give them unquestioned loyalty while they treat you like a machine and pay you far less than you are worth. I call that exploitation.

 

[avbug]

According to your logic, workers should put in 12 hours a day even if they are only paid for 8.

?????????????????????

Negative. Your words, and these serve to cloud the issue. I said no such thing.

According to my logic, workers should put their full attention and energy to the job to which they were hired, regardless of the wage paid. Or they should seek another job. If a worker is paid for 8 hours a day, then the worker should give his or her all during those eight hours. If a worker is already giving 100%, then clearly paying the worker more will not elicit better or more work, because the employee is already doing his or her best. According to my logic, no worker should ever give less.

If a pilot is employed to operate under Part 135, then that pilot should be giving his or her best for eight hours, ten hours, or fourteen hours, such as the job may require on any given day.

We were told that an owner found it amazing that the pilots were as nice as they are given the circumstances, and that disgusts you?!

Do you have such trouble understanding the English language? Of course it disgusts me. That the client/owner noticed anything amiss at all is a problem. But that really wasn't the quote now, was it?

Then he said, " Now I know why the Avantair pilots dont always seem too motivated. I wouldn't be even as nice as you guys are for the money you make."

That the owner concerned himself with identifying with the "niceness" of the pilots is irrelevant...that the owner noticed that "Avantair pilots don't always seem too motivated" IS the point. READ.

Aren't you forgetting that the notion of an honest day's work was based on the understanding that the worker was given a fair wage?

Aren't you forgetting that the employee agrees to the wage before being hired, and knows the score before one iota of work is ever demanded of that employee? Would you submit that an employee, knowing the wage offered and the work demanded, should perform at a lower level until the employer coughs up more dough? I submit that the employee should give his best at all times. By accepting employment, one has entered a verbal contractual agreement to provide his or her best in exchange for the wage. For those under a Salary, that employee has agreed to provide those services for that rate. Period.

If the employee feels the wage unfair, then why did the employee take the job in the first place? If the employee took the job feeling the wage unfair, and then performs accordingly, this represents an act of dishonesty on the part of the employee, who has agreed to work for the wage.

If the employer offers a wage and then lowers it, this is dishonesty on the part of the employer. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about clients who notice that employees are unmotivated, and it is you that suggests such behavior is justified because the employee is not paid enough. By fiat, one may infer that you suggest the employee will perform better if paid more...but as noted already, an honest employee who is doing his or her level best cannot be made to perform better with an increase in wage, because he or she is already providing max effort.

An employee who does not provide his or her best for the agreed wage is dishonest.

Professional pilots are paid to get the pax from point A to point B, safely. Period. They are not paid to be excited about the job.

I am paid to accomplish my mission, whatever it may be on a given day. That may be moving passengers, it may be applying chemical to objects from an airplane, it may be any number of assignments. If I'm not excited to be there and deeply sincere about providing a professional service, then I should get out. Trouble is, I AM exicted about my job. Good Lord, woman. I'm paid to fly...and every day I thank God for it. Of course I'm excited about my job. If the day ever comes when this ceases to be the case, then I'll find something else to do. But I don't imagine that will happen.

I'm paid not for getting people from A to B, but for professional judgement.

I'm paid for good customer service. I'm paid for the sweat and very high price I've paid over my lifetime to posess the certification and skills to do the job. I'm paid for my time. I'm paid for my ability to satisfy each customer with whom I come in contact. This may be Air Traffic Control. It may be an ancy, angry government representative. It may be a passenger.

If a passenger needs me to walk her dog, I'm excited to do it. If a passenger arrives early and wants to go, I'm excited to do it. If someone wants to see my aircraft, I'm excited to show it to them. If I need to fly eight hours in severe turbulence in the smoke and ash with no chance to stop for lunch or take a break, I'm excited to do it. If I'm the guy that's stuck chugging around the pattern with a student in a little piston airplane, you don't have to ask me twice...I'm there. And excited for the chance to both teach, and enjoy the student's learning experience.

A lifetime of flying thus far, and it isn't dull, and yes, I look forward to every chance I get to strap on an airplane, no matter how routine, no matter how agressive, no matter how whatever...the day or the mission might be. I might not ever get another chance with whatever time I have left, and I don't want to miss a moment of it. Not ever. So speak for yourself...of course you can't do that...because you're not a pilot. Hmmm.

What I am suggesting to the pilots is that their companies will never feel the need to pay them professional salaries if they're able to get it all for blue-collar wages.

Quite possibly so...but who's the schmuck that agreed to work for those wages in the first place? Hmmm?

Too many frac companies want their pilots to fix the mistakes others make from scheduling to catering. They want you to run yourselves ragged and give them unquestioned loyalty while they treat you like a machine and pay you far less than you are worth. I call that exploitation.

Assuming you could count yourself as the exploited (you can't)...you're talking about volunteering for exploitation. Who was it, exactly, that put the gun to the head of the "exploited," and forced him or her to take the job through which he or she is being "exploited?"

Regardless...sing to me softly again, and tell me all about how any of this justifies giving a subpar performance...one such that it catches the attention of a paying passenger.

Justification is the narcotic of the soul...sounds to me like you might just be an addict.

 

[Safetycheck]

Hey HAWKERED>>>

Then what are you all waiting for..get on with it! Send in your cards and show 'em you're serious!!

Let's Go Avantair!!!

Git 'r Done!

Can I ask WHAT HAS CHANGED SINCE....

Netjetwife and others,

We don't want to discourage any ongoing efforts on the part of the many fractionals to join us, but we can only do so much with the resources we have available.

I hate to admit this, but we have to slow down just a little bit so that we can get FLOPS and Flexjet established, before we can really give the other groups as much support as they need. Our resources are being used wisely, but there are only so many hours in a day. Together with this, we need to maintain the integrity of the new contract at NJA.

Thanks to everyone for all of their support of the Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots.

I thought your union was too busy to deal with the little guy.

 

[Safetycheck]

Omg

NetJetWife,

Shouldn't you be hanging upside down in the attic?

Dilligaff

Muahhaahahaha.

OMG. That is a classic Dilligaff.

_____________________________

Ok, on topic here. Netjetwife, you got a problem with garbage men and truck drivers? You saying they do not deserve to make what they make?

I detect a hint of animosity towards those who make good money, management included. You want low paid management types??? because remember, according to the logic on display here, you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Would you like the management of your company to be fresh out of college? Competent, gifted management types, CEO's, entrepreneurs, etc are worth their weight in GOLD. Strong innovative companies are the backbone of this economy, of this country. They SHOULD be paid generously. Your hubby wouldn't be in this industry if it werent for the innovator of the fractional industry and others who are constantly refining how business is done. The pilots are here because of management, and the jobs will remain provided there is competent and active management who should be generously compensated.

Getting back to the garbage man and the truck driver, I know you are using those examples as an illustration of how absurd it is to have a low paid pilot. I cant help but notice however that by using those examples you are inferring that they are overpaid for what they do, and that is just not right.

 

[ilikecheese]

Haven't seen much about Avantair lately. Just wondering if anything new (rumor or real) is going down these days.

If your a mute, send in your resume. If you open your mouth and actually state the facts over at that place, your guaranteed to get fired. (A la EU and DH).

 

[netjetwife]

Safetycheck, those were 2 examples from previous debates that came to mind. I could give you a list of other workers, as well, that are paid more than many pilots. You were only correct in thinking that I used the examples to show how UNDERpaid pilots are. I was not saying the other workers are OVERpaid. I hope that clarifies the issue for you. As far as management goes, we've all seen ridiculous salaries that weren't justified by the results. Companies are often top-heavy with people who don't perform half as well as pilots who are paid only a fraction (fractional industry has 2 meanings, it seems) of a manager's salary. In any aviation company the pilots are the backbone--not management. AT NJ there is a lot of talent among the pilots. My husband, and others, could easily fill in for members of management. How many of them could fly the planes? How can you possibly think that it's acceptable for a pilot's family to qualify for government assistance? Yet that happens. Our son qualifies for the "poor kid" lunch program at his public school, based on FO wages. Too many frac families can share stories of how shocked people are to learn how low the pay is. That needs to end. Fairness demands it. I expect pilots to be paid fairly--like the professionals they are!

 

[SCT]

First off, I'm not a fractional pilot and should not even be posting on this thread.

But Mrs. NetjetWife, why did your husband accept the job if he knew what the position was paying? You act like NJ "owes" your husband a job. NJ does not owe your husband anything. And vice versa, your husband does not have to work for NJ. You keep talking about how pilots are professional and are underpaid....First off, who let you decide the pay scale? And not the capitalistic market? Second, we are professionals, but what we do is not rocket science. You state that your husband could do the job of most managers at NJ. That is a very pompious and arogent statement to make. I'm an intelligent person with a college degree but there is no way I could do the job that the CEO does for my company (F100). I wish you and your family the best but you need to come off your soap box.

 

[sikntired]

~sigh~

OK, here's the deal. My husband accepted a job with Netjets 7 years ago. He told me that the pay was pitiful, but the new contract was 'right around the corner'. He was told at his interview that there would be a significant pay increase. Follow me? He believed what he was told and felt that flying for Netjets could prove to be a decent career choice. Don't EVEN start with me about him being a fool to believe what he was told. In a civilized society, one tends to believe and trust what they are told during an interview by both management and line pilots...especially coming from a heavy hitter like Netjets. Only a crooked operation would do otherwise, wouldn't you think?

Crawl forward 6 and a half YEARS and keep turning that big ol' corner, and the Netjet pilots FINALLY got their contract. Not because upper management felt that it was the 'right thing to do'.....nooooo, they hired a union busting firm to help them continue to pay the pilots the insulting, low pay that they were used to paying and break everyone's moral. FUD. Fortunately for the NJ pilots, it didn't work. Netjets spent a whole lotta jingle to some outside firm, rather than 'do the right thing'.

Negotiations didn't move one inch until the pilots dumped their affiliation with Local 284 and formed their OWN union specifically FOR pilots, run BY pilots. We're still under the Teamsters umbrella, which has advantages, *but* we have much more control of our destiny with Strong Union 1108.

NJW and I, along with other NJ pilots that post on this board KNOW what most of the pilots from other fracs are going through. What is so difficult to understand about our desire to alleviate other pilots from going through what we went through? It sucked, and I wouldn't wish the treatment that management played on the NJ pilots on anyone. That's why we post. We're *trying* to encourage frac pilots to understand that things don't have to go the way their company management is telling them it has to be. Do you have a clue as to how much money "those people" make? How about the waste that continues hour after hour without any accountability? It's UNREAL.

As for the shame that someone on here tried to put on a pilot who's pax mentioned the "down" attitudes...Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that every pilot, during EVERY flight, is doing his/her job at 100%??? There isn't much room for error, is there? Smoking holes come to mind when I think of a pilot doing a half-azzed job. During contentious negotiations, many pilots just did their 100%....going the extra mile and doing their typical 150% just wasn't giving them enough return on their investment. Call it a bad attitude or whatever...they still got the job done safely and efficiently.

I still contend that many of the pilots wives that I know (NJW is one of them), could more effectively run the operations in the Puzzle Palace...even without some fancy degree. (I'll be hearing from Familyguy, CMHtroll, and a few others I bet...they disappeared after the contract was settled, so you tell me exactly who is a paid shill on here). It doesn't require a degree in anything to understand and execute an operation that could and *should* be run efficiently. Some people "get it", and some don't. A degree doesn't guarantee that a person has common sense either. I live next door to a college professor and he doesn't know that you're supposed to shut the storm windows in the winter. Real smart guy.

Am I the wife of a pilot? Yes. Are you part of management? I'm just wondering. Do I really care if other frac pilots jump on board with IBT 1108? Not really, because I think that we've got enough on our plates to deal with, but that's just me. I can't stand the thought of other pilots and their families living through many years of struggle because someone from "on high" says there's no money. It only makes sense that all frac pilots *should* be on the same page and work together towards realistic goals. I don't believe for one minute that many of the frac companies discussed on this board will offer a reasonable salary with QOL issues taken into account without a monster fight. We're here to offer encouragement to the people who are being toyed with by the people that they work for.

I'm glad that truck drivers and sanitation department people (garbage guys) get paid well. Do ya think that *maybe* someone who flies human souls for a living should *maybe* be paid accordingly? The money is there, don't insult anyone's intelligence about that. The FACT that many FO pilot's families qualify for reduced school lunches is a crying shame.

Factor in the time, money, energy and investment in your flying certifications, as well as the time building, flight instructing, low paying stepping stone jobs, and/or military service, then working for a frac company and being away from home for half of each year, making jack shi#, and then tell me that you don't deserve to be paid well. C'mon.

The time has come to take a stand and be treated and compensated like the professionals that you are.

I'm still sikntired

(sorry NJW, I've got a bad attitude about corporate greed, and can't get myself to change my name)

 

[netjetwife]

?????????????????????

Negative. Your words, and these serve to cloud the issue. I said no such thing. Word for word, no you didn't. But a person's "best" might be far more than the job requirement and the salary. Think of the expression "over qualified for the job". You are demanding a performance level of many frac pilots that is over-qualified for the salary.

According to my logic, workers should put their full attention and energy to the job to which they were hired, regardless of the wage paid. Obviously, the pilots are doing that based on the safe, timely arrival of the pax at their destinations. Or they should seek another job. Why should they do that when they can make improvements at the one they have? If a worker is paid for 8 hours a day, then the worker should give his or her all during those eight hours. If a worker is already giving 100%, then clearly paying the worker more will not elicit better or more work, because the employee is already doing his or her best. There goes bonuses and commissions, which are considered staples among many industries! Go ahead and take the whole idea of the "carrot approach" while you're at it, but I don't think students of human nature will agree with you. According to my logic, no worker should ever give less. I notice that you conveniently fail to mention the responsibility of the owner to fairly compensate the worker. In this perfect world of yours, the worker would be handsomely rewarded for giving 100%, surely? What happens when the worker is paid only 50% of what his skills/labor is worth? You'd have him quit. I say stay and fight for what you're worth.

If a pilot is employed to operate under Part 135, then that pilot should be giving his or her best for eight hours, ten hours, or fourteen hours, such as the job may require on any given day. Unless they are fatigued, at which point, a professional does not fly. Working under stressful conditions for a company that doesn't respect its workforce has a negative impact on the morale and health of those workers. That fact has been well documented across the years and throughout the economy.

Do you have such trouble understanding the English language? Resorting to personal insults rather than debating the subject academically? That's nothing new; you're not the first, nor will you be the last. That tactic doesn't work with me. Of course it disgusts me. Given the tone of your post, that is to be expected. That said, it doesn't mean I agree with your viewpoint. That the client/owner noticed anything amiss at all is a problem. That the pax was clearly going out of his way to gather information on a subject which most never address, must be taken into account. Based on his interest, it would be reasonable to assume that he was more observant than the average pax. It could well be that he made a habit of having in-depth discussions with each flight crew and was therefore privy to information that others didn't have. Given the paucity of our knowledge of the situation, your strong emotional reaction seems unwarranted, and perhaps even suspicious.

But that really wasn't the quote now, was it? The quote was available for anyone interested to read. I was simply sharing my thoughts regarding your post. Is that another veiled slight against my integrity? Typical of your side.

That the owner concerned himself with identifying with the "niceness" of the pilots is irrelevant...How can it be irrelevant? That is the very behavior that you are demanding of a professional pilot. How curious that you fail to give credit where it is due. that the owner noticed that "Avantair pilots don't always seem too motivated" IS the point. READ. Yes I did. I read and saw a big gap of missing information. How often is "don't always"? That could have been very few times. "Seem" is a totally subjective term, as is "too". Both may have been used as a result of thinking in hindsight after learning more about the problems the pilots were facing. What you want to dismiss as "irrelevant", is the MAIN point of the statement. That being, the owner's sympathy was for the pilots--not management. He clearly felt that they were being UNDERpaid and expressed the opinion that they were OVERperforming for the salary they were given, when he said, "I wouldn't be even as nice as you guys are for the money you make."


Aren't you forgetting that the employee agrees to the wage before being hired, and knows the score before one iota of work is ever demanded of that employee? I know that my husband was misled during his NJ interview when he was promised a quick upgrade and told a big raise was just around the corner. He was not the only one. It is a dishonest practice that has been mentioned by others, as well. The phrase "broken promises" is too often heard in the frac industry. READ the board. Would you submit that an employee, knowing the wage offered and the work demanded, should perform at a lower level until the employer coughs up more dough? I suggest that the frac pilots do only what they are paid to do--fly the plane. They are not responsible for solving the problems caused by the mistakes of others in the company, be it a mx problem, unrealistic scheduling, or sub-par catering. I submit that the employee should give his best at all times. I suggest that they demand to be treated and compensated like the professionals they are. By accepting employment, one has entered a verbal contractual agreement to provide his or her best in exchange for the wage. For those under a Salary, that employee has agreed to provide those services for that rate. Period. The frac pilot is being paid to safely fly the plane and provide a basic standard of services to the pax. Period. A huge part of the problem is their lack of a written contract, and attitudes like yours--demanding that the pilots give only 100% while management is excused for paying them only a fraction of what they're worth. Unbalanced, unjust systems are prone to failure. Break down in the morale of the workforce is a warning that smart managers heed, especially if they are doing their best, and earning the salary.

to be continued....

 

[netjetwife]

Note: I didn't quote all of Avbug's post due to its length and redundancy.


If the employee feels the wage unfair, then why did the employee take the job in the first place? If the employee took the job feeling the wage unfair, and then performs accordingly, this represents an act of dishonesty on the part of the employee, who has agreed to work for the wage. This has been covered by many others, in depth. Search and read. The acts of dishonesty cannot be blamed on the pilots who are the victims of countless unkept promises by management. "Foot-dragging" is another infamous phrase that frac pilots are too well acquainted with, along with "shell-game".

If the employer offers a wage and then lowers it, this is dishonesty on the part of the employer. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about corporate greed and excuses. You want to focus on an isolated event which you know very little about it, as you weren't there to obtain a full understanding of what transpired. clients who notice that employees are unmotivated, That really wasn't the quote now, was it? By your own standard, you're being dishonest. and it is you that suggests such behavior is justified because the employee is not paid enough. By fiat, one may infer that you suggest the employee will perform better if paid more...Human nature dictates that employees who are treated with respect and compensated fairly make better motivated, productive workers.but as noted already, So you do realize that your post is redundant and most will not read all of it? an honest employee who is doing his or her level best cannot be made to perform better with an increase in wage, because he or she is already providing max effort. It would appear that you equate workers with machines. The honest employees have been doing their best, considering the growth in the industry. The frac pilots have ALREADY EARNED a raise. Their companies have been stringing them along with excuses and promises just to enable them to continue UNDERpaying the pilots. The IOUs are being called in and it is time to pay up. Verbal contracts are open for negotiation at any time and American workers have the right to form a union to represent their interests.

An employee who does not provide his or her best for the agreed wage is dishonest. Your emphasis on honesty points to a hidden agenda. Many of us who have followed the pilots' struggle closely have encountered this type of posting before. With your "shoot the messenger" attitude, your purpose for posting is easy to guess at. Let management sit down with 1108 and work out the details of an agreed upon--in writing--wage and we will revisit the subject of motivation and pilot performance.

Assuming you could count yourself as the exploited (you can't)...you're talking about volunteering for exploitation. Who was it, exactly, that put the gun to the head of the "exploited," and forced him or her to take the job through which he or she is being "exploited?" I find this part of your post offensive (and personally hurtful) as it makes light of the very real tragedies some families have been forced to endure. Two NJ families have had to face the murder--by gunshot--of a loved one. The extremism was uncalled for.


Regardless...sing to me softly again, and tell me all about how any of this justifies giving a subpar performance...one such that it catches the attention of a paying passenger. It all boils down to basic fairness. Your insistence on seeing only one side of the issue tells me which side you're on.

Justification is the narcotic of the soul...sounds to me like you might just be an addict.[/quote] Rationalization is used by those who seek excuses for their conduct...sounds to me like you lack the courage to stand up for your self, your peer group and their families. Luckily, I think you, Avbug, are in the minority when it comes to frac pilots.

 

[SCT]

Mamm,

"Are you part of management? I'm just wondering."

Like I stated before, I'm just a corporate pilot and should not be posting on this thread since I'm not a Frac pilot and have no interest one way or another what happens w/ Fracs and unions. Are you a union rep? Yes. Do you strap your ass to a plane like I do? No.

I'll be the first to admit that the fractional pilots are way underpaid and over worked. I'm glad they got a raise. But for NJW to spout off that her husband could run the company better then NJ is ridiculious and arogent. It leads little credability to your crusade. You guys act like you are out to save the freaking world. Are you saying that you can operate a company better then Warren Buffet?....because I'm sure he doesn't hire idiots that can't perform. Maybe you, NJW, and your spouses should go start a company if you're so knowledgeable.

Once again, I'm glad all of you NJ pilots received a raise and I have no problem with the rank and file. But like I stated before NJW needs to come off her soapbox!

 

[netjetwife]

First off, I'm not a fractional pilot and should not even be posting on this thread.

But Mrs. NetjetWife, why did your husband accept the job if he knew what the position was paying? You act like NJ "owes" your husband a job. NJ does not owe your husband anything. And vice versa, your husband does not have to work for NJ. You keep talking about how pilots are professional and are underpaid....First off, who let you decide the pay scale? And not the capitalistic market? Second, we are professionals, but what we do is not rocket science. You state that your husband could do the job of most managers at NJ. That is a very pompious and arogent statement to make. I'm an intelligent person with a college degree but there is no way I could do the job that the CEO does for my company (F100). I wish you and your family the best but you need to come off your soap box.

The reasons my husband took the job have all been covered in previous posts. Suffice it to say, he likes the job--and thanks to SU/1108--he can now afford to keep it. They "owe" my husband a job? Hardly. I think their darn lucky to have him, though! The NJ pilots, with input from their spouses, voted on the payscale. As NJA is the largest frac company, that means that the capitalistic market is at work in the industry. Management is not just a small group as you seem to think. There are quite a few managerial positions at NJ that my husband is well qualified for due to his AF background. I didn't mention "CEO"--you did. The "soap box" analogy is your opinion which is not shared by all who read this board or post here. I believe that the majority of frac pilots, outside of NJ, are underpaid/overworked. Let the voting decide.

 

[SCT]

Like I stated before, I'm glad the NJ pilots received a pay increase. But you're on here spouting off like the unions are going to save the world. This is comparing apples to oranges.....but the whole UAW thing is working real well for the auto industry isn't it? Do you think CS should go to a union? If so keep on drinking that union CoolAid.

I still think its arogent to state that your husband "can easily fill in for management." You want respect from them and you make statements like that? And like I said before, we are professionals as pilots but what we do is not rocket science...

I stand by my statements.