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Avantair called

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The Gimp said:
Thinking of going for an interview. What is the future for this company?

Thank you for any info.
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Looks pretty good when you think about it. Avantair serves a much larger market than the other fractionals because the average fractional share is cheaper. Avantair has been growing considerably (take a look at airlinepilotcentral.com and look under the fractional tab) and I have heard that upgrade time is roughly one year. Something like 35 Avanti IIs (Proline 21 equipped - nice glass) are on order and there are rumors (simply rumors at this point) that jets might be added due to current owner demand.

Avantair also has one of the best domicile selections available (only Citationshares offers a comparable selection) with something like 20 cities offered. Although I have not flown one I hear the Avanti is a blast to fly - very docile and it performs well. The incoming Avanti IIs will offer even better performance and automation. Have you ever seen the cabin of an Avanti? It is fairly wide and more comfortable than the cabin of most Citations (no wonder it is popular with customers).

If you want to see the country, the Avantis will also take you into airports that most jets can't visit (rural Montana and Idaho for example - a.k.a. "God's Country").

No, I don't fly for Avantair but I am seriously considering applying very soon (current family situation won't allow it due to insurance). There are a number of Avantair pilots on this board whom I am sure will chime in. Keep in mind, no operation is perfect and, from what I have heard, Avantair has gradually overcome some initial bumps in the road and is now a more professional place to work - check out the salaries on airlinepilotcentral.com (fractional tab) - not too bad. I say go for it!

Let us know what happens in your situation. Good luck!
 
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myrealnameis said:
Couldn't have said it better myself, and yes there have been bumps in the road.
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I am sure all growth companies experience problems that eventually get resolved or the company goes bust. Over time processes are improved and infrastructure is added to boost efficiency. I have heard that Avanti demos with prospective share owners are happening all of the time. The fuel efficiency of the Avanti probably helps...
 
Not that I am aware of.

Its a simple numbers issue. A very large portion of our pilot group lives in Florida. I would almost say our pilot group would have to double in size before we hire into florida

but I have been known to be wrong before.......

Best of Luck,

celloman
 
johnsonrod said:
Looks pretty good when you think about it. Avantair serves a much larger market than the other fractionals because the average fractional share is cheaper. Avantair has been growing considerably (take a look at airlinepilotcentral.com and look under the fractional tab) and I have heard that upgrade time is roughly one year. Something like 35 Avanti IIs (Proline 21 equipped - nice glass) are on order and there are rumors (simply rumors at this point) that jets might be added due to current owner demand.

Avantair also has one of the best domicile selections available (only Citationshares offers a comparable selection) with something like 20 cities offered. Although I have not flown one I hear the Avanti is a blast to fly - very docile and it performs well. The incoming Avanti IIs will offer even better performance and automation. Have you ever seen the cabin of an Avanti? It is fairly wide and more comfortable than the cabin of most Citations (no wonder it is popular with customers).

If you want to see the country, the Avantis will also take you into airports that most jets can't visit (rural Montana and Idaho for example - a.k.a. "God's Country").

No, I don't fly for Avantair but I am seriously considering applying very soon (current family situation won't allow it due to insurance). There are a number of Avantair pilots on this board whom I am sure will chime in. Keep in mind, no operation is perfect and, from what I have heard, Avantair has gradually overcome some initial bumps in the road and is now a more professional place to work - check out the salaries on airlinepilotcentral.com (fractional tab) - not too bad. I say go for it!

Let us know what happens in your situation. Good luck!
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All true, but consider these recent developments as well; 17-22 people (mngmt., mx) just let go (exact numbers vary), mechanics complaining about lack of parts because they're on c.o.d. with everyone, and finished Avanti IIs (yes, plural) sitting at Piaggio awaiting payment.

Not starting a flame, just want you to know ALL the facts before you jump ship.
 
P180puke said:
All true, but consider these recent developments as well; 17-22 people (mngmt., mx) just let go (exact numbers vary), mechanics complaining about lack of parts because they're on c.o.d. with everyone, and finished Avanti IIs (yes, plural) sitting at Piaggio awaiting payment.

Not starting a flame, just want you to know ALL the facts before you jump ship.
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Any Idea as to why this is all happening??
 
I would be interested in knowing more about these developments at avantair are they based on fact or rumor ??? I am getting ready to go to avantair !
 
Flybet3 said:
Any Idea as to why this is all happening??
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$$ would be my first obvious guess. I've also heard the layoffs were to downsize and attract "new investors", which would also support the $$ theory.

clambdin: Fact: people have been layed off. Fact: Avanti IIs have been ready at Piaggio for some time now. Rumor: c.o.d issues mentioned by those trying to fix the birds...
 
Actually........

Actually, the current owner of Avantair is pulling out. It seems as if what was predicted by some is coming true- he took what money he could and is running. Avantair is currently scrambling for new investors. Thats why there's new airplanes sitting and waiting. Be aware, folks, the books can only be cooked so long before the cards fall. The stories I have heard in the last few weeks about how that place is run makes me shake my head. From sources I know inside the company, it would appear scheduling is a mess, accounting is screwing up, owners are getting frustrated, you name it...... Anyone thinking of going to fly there would be well advised to sit and see what happens over the next few months.
 
Mr. Pebbles said:
Actually, the current owner of Avantair is pulling out. It seems as if what was predicted by some is coming true- he took what money he could and is running. Avantair is currently scrambling for new investors. Thats why there's new airplanes sitting and waiting. Be aware, folks, the books can only be cooked so long before the cards fall. The stories I have heard in the last few weeks about how that place is run makes me shake my head. From sources I know inside the company, it would appear scheduling is a mess, accounting is screwing up, owners are getting frustrated, you name it...... Anyone thinking of going to fly there would be well advised to sit and see what happens over the next few months.
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Those are some pretty big assertions. I hope you have some facts to back them up... Layoffs could be due to a previously bloated management structure (cutting out the fat). Avantair is in a good position (strong niche with a great aircraft) and it is growing. Growth can be difficult to manage. I'd like to see some facts related to the owner pulling out, etc.
 
johnsonrod said:
Those are some pretty big assertions. I hope you have some facts to back them up... Layoffs could be due to a previously bloated management structure (cutting out the fat). Avantair is in a good position (strong niche with a great aircraft) and it is growing. Growth can be difficult to manage. I'd like to see some facts related to the owner pulling out, etc.
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I've heard this comment as well about the owner leaving. But number one I'll believe it when I see it, and I doubt everyone in the company is just going to sit and what this company go tits up. They'll come up with something. If I had a nickle for every time I've seen this scenario.
 
Mr. Pebbles said:
Actually, the current owner of Avantair is pulling out. It seems as if what was predicted by some is coming true- he took what money he could and is running. Avantair is currently scrambling for new investors. Thats why there's new airplanes sitting and waiting. Be aware, folks, the books can only be cooked so long before the cards fall. The stories I have heard in the last few weeks about how that place is run makes me shake my head. From sources I know inside the company, it would appear scheduling is a mess, accounting is screwing up, owners are getting frustrated, you name it...... Anyone thinking of going to fly there would be well advised to sit and see what happens over the next few months.
Click to expand...

Thats definitely not the whole story of new aircraft sitting on the ground. Fact is that they do not have a Master Minimum Equipment List (MMEL), which is a requirement for Avantair to derive their own Minimum Equipment List (MEL) to pass FAA Conformity, allowing them to be added to the Operators Certificate. This is just another example of the Manufacturer delays. Piaggios initial response to Avantairs question of the MMEL was "thats your problem". Apparently that is also Piaggios problem too because Avantair wont take delivery until the MMEL is provided. Sounds like a screw up from Piaggio.

Heard about new investors but not about the current owner jumping ship. But that has been a rumor on this board the day he bought in to Avantair. I have personally overheard him speak from time to time of adding much larger aircraft to the fleet and looking for investors to accomplish this. If he was planning on leaving, I never sensed that from the conversations, so it would be a shock to see that happen. But, I guess anything is possible. Management really should address these rumors. Things have been quite from them lately, leaving imaginations to run wild.
 
myrealnameis said:
Thats definitely not the whole story of new aircraft sitting on the ground. Fact is that they do not have a Master Minimum Equipment List (MMEL), which is a requirement for Avantair to derive their own Minimum Equipment List (MEL) to pass FAA Conformity, allowing them to be added to the Operators Certificate. This is just another example of the Manufacturer delays. Piaggios initial response to Avantairs question of the MMEL was "thats your problem". Apparently that is also Piaggios problem too because Avantair wont take delivery until the MMEL is provided. Sounds like a screw up from Piaggio.

Management really should address these rumors. Things have been quite from them lately, leaving imaginations to run wild.
Click to expand...

MMEL, true assertion. However, it's the old excuse. Would it not make sense to take delivery of one in order to start getting your crews trained for the coming onslaught of equipment? In addition, all shares in 2 and maybe even 3 have been sold. I'd imagine that the owners would like to see a delivery take place. I've had many ask me about them.

Yes management should address them. But anyone that has any history with avantair knows that this process always repeats itself: rumors start, management's quiet, rumors become reality, managemement goes into their damage control routine. It doesn't take much "imagination" to read between the lines, history always repeats itself.
 
BTW myrealname, I'm not looking for a flame match with you or anyone else. Just saw alot of activity on here from guys looking to go to avantair. Right now may not be a stable time and that may change, but they should know both sides of the coin. I'm making decent money now and the checks are clearing, but I am starting to wonder.

I spoke with a couple of guys at mx, and the c.o.d. thing is for real with many companies. That's a concern.
 
P180puke said:
BTW myrealname, I'm not looking for a flame match with you or anyone else. Just saw alot of activity on here from guys looking to go to avantair. Right now may not be a stable time and that may change, but they should know both sides of the coin. I'm making decent money now and the checks are clearing, but I am starting to wonder.

I spoke with a couple of guys at mx, and the c.o.d. thing is for real with many companies. That's a concern.
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I personally take anything myrealnameis says with a grain of salt. His intentions may be good, and I have nothing against him, but he has been grossly misinformed in the past. It doesnt make sense to blindly believe everything management tells you when there's a long history of lying and hiding the truth. I know of many ways in which the current owner has been siphoning money from this company.

Excellent point, P180, you dont need an MEL to do training in an aircraft. That comment speaks for itself. Doubtful if a company would just let aircraft sit somewhere else if they had the money to pick them up. Something smells fishy. I heard that Avantair was enroute to pick up the first Avanti2, and Piaggio said "Whoa, this aircraft is going nowhere till we see some money.":beer:
 
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Mr. Pebbles said:
I personally take anything myrealnameis says with a grain of salt. His intentions may be good, and I have nothing against him, but he has been grossly misinformed in the past. It doesnt make sense to blindly believe everything management tells you when there's a long history of lying and hiding the truth. I know of many ways in which the current owner has been siphoning money from this company.

Excellent point, P180, you dont need an MEL to do training in an aircraft. That comment speaks for itself. Doubtful if a company would just let aircraft sit somewhere else if they had the money to pick them up. Something smells fishy. I heard that Avantair was enroute to pick up the first Avanti2, and Piaggio said "Whoa, this aircraft is going nowhere till we see some money.":beer:
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I just hope that the rumors/unsubstantiated assertions stated here are not the case. I know that rumors can take a life of their own unless they are handled by management. Let's hope we get some clarity soon.
 
i heard that they didn't take delivery of the new avanti II's was because there was a problem with th autopilot making erratic turns for no reason. and avantair wouldn't take them until they were fixed.

haven't heard anything else except what i have read here.
 
cheeeese said:
i heard that they didn't take delivery of the new avanti II's was because there was a problem with th autopilot making erratic turns for no reason. and avantair wouldn't take them until they were fixed.

haven't heard anything else except what i have read here.
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You are correct sir!
 
I don't know much about Avantair, but I did get to tour one of their aircraft that was in for maintenance. Nice plane. Interior similar to the B200, but seemed to have more room, somehow. Cockpit was definitely roomier than a Citation 5XX, and seemed as big as the King Air line (and KA CPs are pretty comfy). The wrenches said that the fuel/$$$ savings can be considerable, and it is as fast as the old C5XXs, but they just didn't like the Italian engineering. Perhaps they're just anti-Italites? :D

Nice aircraft.

Oh, butt the bad part? You don't get to stick your butt in the pax's face after closing the door as you head up front, as you do in the King Air. I always kinda' liked that. "Hey rich guy ... say hello to Captain Butts!" :nuts:

Fun is where you find it. :erm:
 
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cheeeese said:
i heard that they didn't take delivery of the new avanti II's was because there was a problem with th autopilot making erratic turns for no reason. and avantair wouldn't take them until they were fixed.

haven't heard anything else except what i have read here.
Click to expand...

And that wasn't the behavior that was fixed, but it matters not, it's been over a month now.
 
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Snakum said:
I don't know much about Avantair, but I did get to tour one of their aircraft that was in for maintenance. Nice plane. Interior similar to the B200, but seemed to have more room, somehow. Cockpit was definitely roomier than a Citation 5XX, and seemed as big as the King Air line (and KA CPs are pretty comfy). The wrenches said that the fuel/$$$ savings can be considerable, and it is as fast as the old C5XXs, but they just didn't like the Italian engineering. Perhaps they're just anti-Italites? :D

Nice aircraft.

Oh, butt the bad part? You don't get to stick your butt in the pax's face after closing the door as you head up front, as you do in the King Air. I always kinda' liked that. "Hey rich guy ... say hello to Captain Butts!" :nuts:

Fun is where you find it. :erm:
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Ahh alas, you DO get to stick your butt in their face if they're sitting on the side-facing "couch". Oh the small pleasures.
 
P180puke said:
Ahh alas, you DO get to stick your butt in their face if they're sitting on the side-facing "couch". Oh the small pleasures.
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Well ... in that case, I'm going send 'em a resume next year. Some things I just can't do with out. :pimp:
 
P180puke said:
And that wasn't the behavior that was fixed, but it matters not, it's been over a month now.
Click to expand...

Agreed, it was fixed a month or so ago. It was an uncommanded intermittent "wing rocking".
 

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