Attn Delta Pilots-

[ACL65PILOT]

Again.. I do not want nor expect to give up scope (aircraft size).

Can you explain to me how you (Delta) gave up scope and have not furloughed one mainline pilot?

Obviously, what Delta MEC did was different than what United MEC did when it comes to scope relief AND pilot protection.

Also, can someone explain to me WHY Delta pilots and ALPA National allowed the scope relaxation to happen at Delta?

motch

Yes,
First no scope has been given up since 1113C. The 76 seat scope settlement put in place procedures to remove seats of the 76 seat jets that were above our interpretation of the wording if any pilots hired after Sept 2001 were furloughed. A slightly different protection was in place that took a lot of those 76 seat jets and made them 70 seat jets if any Sept 2001 and earlier hires were furloughed. That alone is a huge financial inventive.
Add to the fact that we owned every seat at Compass since no pilot has bypassed the flow provision as no one has flowed. That meant that every seat was available to flow down. Add the Mesaba seats that we had rights to and you were looking at the airline paying training costs for these flows as they were wholly owned carriers.
What this amounts to is multiple levels in place that put the break even on a furlough over 22 months.
When they made the decision to furlough or not to furlough this time last year pilots were in the wrong seats and righting the airline would have take way to long for a ROI on a furlough.

Adding more 76 seat jets or allowing 100 seat jets will most certainly change that, and in effect is off the table.

You want that flying which you have been able to hold to stay at CAL. Fly it for market rates but do not give it away. CAL has been more profitable that DAL and you have kept the flying. Selling the flying is a one way street and never forget it. Keep it at all costs.

The reason that you guys furloughed 147 pilots and were able to run the airline is wrapped in to the way you construct your lines and the hours per month the average pilot flies.

 

[Superpilot92]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What HE said!!!!

 

[dtfl]

Your line is built with training as a part of it. IOW, training is considered a trip.

Your line is built and training is paid 3 hours per day but you get no credit for training. So they build the line and you get paid for tng but it isn't added to your line value

 

[thruthemurk]

....

Either way, the added pilots would negate the loss of pilots on the 737's IF the company replaced them with 70-76 seat RJ's flown by Regional Carrier pilots....QUOTE]

How many more guys think like this at CAL? Are pilots really this dense?

God help us.

 

[aa73]

Here, I'll save SFR the trouble: Hey, I've only worked 5 days this month! Gives me a lot more time off to invest in my primo Houston luxury trailer parks business. So if you don't like CAL and our awesome work rules, why don't you quit?

 

[Shrek]

Delta furloughed pilots post 9/11 when the regionals were growing massively. In 2007, Delta had the largest international growth in its history. The Combined Delta/Northwest is barely larger than Delta was at one point as a stand-alone. Delta management has not furloughed because of the merger. They are trying to make the merger go as smooth as possible and keep the pilots on board. Furloughing would make pilots like myself (28 years old) hate the company for the next 30+ years. It doesn't hurt that Richard Anderson is actually trying to run Delta while Glen Tilton is just trying to make himself as much money as possible with no regard to his airline. CAL obviously doesn't mind furloughing or it wouldn't have fulroughed 148. If you guys get Delta scope, expect CAL to furlough thousands. The Delta contract is not that great. American's contract is better and the APA is willing to go on strike over it (not that anyone would ever let them). Please do us all a favor and do not settle for the Delta contract. There are many loopholes that cost me hundreds of dollars/month.

Says it all right there.........

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Your line is built and training is paid 3 hours per day but you get no credit for training. So they build the line and you get paid for tng but it isn't added to your line value

Correct but, training pay is taken into account when building up to ALV. That is what I was referring to. For example, this month I had recurrent. My line value was 61 which is below the lowest threshold for the ALV of 72. So, the 6 hours of training brought me up to 67 (still too low for me this month, still trying to do some trading).

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Delta furloughed pilots post 9/11 when the regionals were growing massively. In 2007, Delta had the largest international growth in its history. The Combined Delta/Northwest is barely larger than Delta was at one point as a stand-alone. Delta management has not furloughed because of the merger. They are trying to make the merger go as smooth as possible and keep the pilots on board. Furloughing would make pilots like myself (28 years old) hate the company for the next 30+ years. It doesn't hurt that Richard Anderson is actually trying to run Delta while Glen Tilton is just trying to make himself as much money as possible with no regard to his airline. CAL obviously doesn't mind furloughing or it wouldn't have fulroughed 148. If you guys get Delta scope, expect CAL to furlough thousands. The Delta contract is not that great. American's contract is better and the APA is willing to go on strike over it (not that anyone would ever let them). Please do us all a favor and do not settle for the Delta contract. There are many loopholes that cost me hundreds of dollars/month.

Delta has no problem furloughing, they just currently happen to be doing it at thier subsidiaries.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

....

Either way, the added pilots would negate the loss of pilots on the 737's IF the company replaced them with 70-76 seat RJ's flown by Regional Carrier pilots....QUOTE]

How many more guys think like this at CAL? Are pilots really this dense?

God help us.

You guys need to lay off Motch. He's a dedicated unionist and I believe was an MEC member at his previous carrier. First let me say that any relaxation of scope to allow larger than 50 seat jets to be outsourced at CAL is not only no, but F NO from me. HOWEVER, there is truth to what Motch said. Parking the 737-500 fleet (I believe we have 32 left) would result in about 350 less pilot positions. At the same time, our current lack of work rules is so horrendous that we will require 448 more pilots to operate under DAL's contract per the Aug. 2009 Crews News. So, if somehow DAL scope ever became the rule here at CAL (I bet it won't) even after parking 32 737s we would require 100 more pilots on the property than we have now, recalling at least 2/3 of our furloughs. Of course if Mgt then decides why not also replace the -700s with E-170s, maybe some -800s and increase frequency, well you get the picture. That is why on Scope alone DAL's contract is a non starter here, not to mention bankruptcy pay rates agreed to when oil was over $140 a barrel.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Delta has no problem furloughing, they just currently happen to be doing it at thier subsidiaries.

DAL understands they have way too many RJ's. You're seeing the after effects of the RJ bubble.

If mainline furloughed, the subsidiaries would be furloughing even more, you do understand that, right?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

DAL understands they have way too many RJ's. You're seeing the after effects of the RJ bubble.

If mainline furloughed, the subsidiaries would be furloughing even more, you do understand that, right?

I do understand that.

Yet not one of our RJ's is going away, just every turboprop... We all figured they'd go but at least NWA would have likely replaced them with the Dash or ATR. Also if there is such a glut of rj's why hasn't Delta cancelled the Mesa flying that they could have with Mesa's bankruptcy? Seems to me that would be a perfect way to cut rj's

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You are a WO correct?

That is why. They will dump every RJ they can at the contract carriers then put them at the WO where there is no floor to the Air Service Agreements. They are getting burned by this. It is part of the reason OH is taking it in the shorts. Simply because DAL can do it to them with no financial penalty. The third party operators are different. I expect to see a shift after the five year resets start happening this fall.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I hope you are right... I will be downgraded in the next displacement and with my house sooo underwater I can't refinance and may well lose it with the paycut.

 

[Launchpad]

<<They are trying to make the merger go as smooth as possible and keep the pilots on board. Furloughing would make pilots like myself (28 years old) hate the company for the next 30+ years.>>

I heard this same story back in 01, holds no water. They could care less. I was 28, then got furloughed. My hatred level has gotten better, but I'll never forget.

 

[xjhawk]

I must say that I am happy that there is no bashing of regional PILOTS on this post in regards to the 76 seat scope. I am a regional pilot and do not want to be here. I would rather be at a mainline as would most of my coworkers. I want to see growth at the mainline level and leave the regionals behind-that would help all our careers. God I wish I was 28 years old and at a major. Man my timing is terrible. So much for serving my country before I made my run at the airlines. Do us all a favor-hold strong on that 76 seat scope if you can. So there is a light at the end of my long dark tunnel. What the hell is 24 hour call out for reserves? I have been on reserve for almost 7 years here at XJ and am going crazy!

PS I know what it is, I just know that I wish we had it.