Ati hiring

[72Longhorn]

Tool rate

5. Is there a "probation period" like any new hire in case we hire a real "tool". Before you ABX guys get pissed, All companies have "Tools" you, us everyone. I like to call them the 5%'ers, the guys that $uck to fly with.

After jumping on ABX to get to work every 2 weeks, I think the tool percentage rate is a lot higher there than anywhere I've ever seen! I'm gonna say "40% ers" Don't get me wrong, there were some really cool cats over there, but man were there some real #$%#*s!!

 

[mxer]

ABX probably had the same 5-10% range. Problem that you may have seen was if the same guy going to the same city all the time happens to be one of them. Example, if the guy likes a certain layover and bids it all the time. Maybe? We had some pretty good dudes there, but we had the others as well.

 

[abxflyr1]

After jumping on ABX to get to work every 2 weeks, I think the tool percentage rate is a lot higher there than anywhere I've ever seen! I'm gonna say "40% ers" Don't get me wrong, there were some really cool cats over there, but man were there some real #$%#*s!!

Those are some pretty bold words there Longhorn. I agree that every airline has their %'ers, or tools, etc. I'll even go as far as saying that ABX has (or had) perhaps more than 5% (of 700+ = some 35 guys). Not over 10% though! It is true that often a 'bad apple' or two would end up owning a route....sometimes forever, and that is literal.

I'm looking more into what the LOA actually has in it. In general, as it has been explained to me in simple terms, it is a recall to an ATSG held company. Not really 'hiring' per sa since one would carry over their longevity for entry into another company/union payscale and vacation only. As a newbie, you'd be at the bottom of the list. The requirement is a 2 year lock-in (as mentioned) before you could return to ABX, even if your recall number at ABX passes you by. Also, if a pilot takes any position that requires a lock by the company which they are working for, such as an upgrade, then that lock-in would have to be met as well. Of course, one would be operating under another contract, work-rules, payscales, and if applicable pay dues and join another union (if required...closed shop, etc.).

I do not believe the ABX contract addresses other ATSG company furloughed pilots in any way. So there is no provision allowing nor restricting it from occuring. The other ATSG pilots would have to acquire a similiar provision with the parent company for something similar. A moot point for the ABX certificate since there are some 400+ on furlough with a 7 yr. recall right.

I'm sure the whole program will not be popular among ATI/CCI'ers and I can understand why overall. Guess we'll see where it all goes.

 

[72Longhorn]

ABX probably had the same 5-10% range. Problem that you may have seen was if the same guy going to the same city all the time happens to be one of them. Example, if the guy likes a certain layover and bids it all the time. Maybe? We had some pretty good dudes there, but we had the others as well.

Yea, I guess it's true I flew with the same people over and over because they lived in the same city as me. There was also a little Astar/ABX friction going on. I personally didn't care about either company anymore, but some guys at ABX just gave me, "THE EYE."
On the other hand, there were some really nice guys that made my jumpseat great! One of those great guys got a well deserved job at SWA.
Good luck to all Astar and ABX guys moving on. It's slim picking out there!

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Those are some pretty bold words there Longhorn. I agree that every airline has their %'ers, or tools, etc. I'll even go as far as saying that ABX has (or had) perhaps more than 5% (of 700+ = some 35 guys). Not over 10% though! It is true that often a 'bad apple' or two would end up owning a route....sometimes forever, and that is literal.

I'm looking more into what the LOA actually has in it. In general, as it has been explained to me in simple terms, it is a recall to an ATSG held company. Not really 'hiring' per sa since one would carry over their longevity for entry into another company/union payscale and vacation only. As a newbie, you'd be at the bottom of the list. The requirement is a 2 year lock-in (as mentioned) before you could return to ABX, even if your recall number at ABX passes you by. Also, if a pilot takes any position that requires a lock by the company which they are working for, such as an upgrade, then that lock-in would have to be met as well. Of course, one would be operating under another contract, work-rules, payscales, and if applicable pay dues and join another union (if required...closed shop, etc.).

I do not believe the ABX contract addresses other ATSG company furloughed pilots in any way. So there is no provision allowing nor restricting it from occuring. The other ATSG pilots would have to acquire a similiar provision with the parent company for something similar. A moot point for the ABX certificate since there are some 400+ on furlough with a 7 yr. recall right.

I'm sure the whole program will not be popular among ATI/CCI'ers and I can understand why overall. Guess we'll see where it all goes.

The way it was explained to us was the only thing the New Hire would bring over was their longevity for pay purposes only. All other rights to seniority based provisions of the CBA were to be determined by their actual seniority # on the ATI list. Again, this is third hand but this is coming from someone who has seen the language.

But as you say, "Guess we'll see where it all goes".


FAJ

 

[Ammo captain]

Why doesn't the ABX union publish this LOA so we can all see how it affects the ATI guys and gals. Better yet, why doesn't someone post the whole contract on the web, so everyone can work toward the best contracts possible.

 

[abxflyr1]

The ABX contract is still being formatted for publishing/printing from the close and signing of the agreement. I don't know why it takes so long for it to occur, but there is only person (office staff) doing the work and I'm sure they have some other duties as well. So, the CBA's final language is not even available to the membership as of yet much less anyone else. The contract might be more of a model of what not to get, rather than working toward the best possible....it is concessionary in many aspects.

The CBA summary that was given in regard to this issue is as follows:

ATSG Recall of ABX Crewmembers: Carriers under the ATSG umbrella shall recall
ABX crewmembers who are on the ABX recall list. Recalled ABX crewmembers shall retain their year’s of longevity for purposes of pay and benefits but will be placed at the bottom of the seniority list for all other purposes.

As I understood it (i.e. inserting disclaimer), the benefits part of this was for amount of vacation a pilot received. So, if you had 10 yrs of service, you would start at (ATI) in the 10 yr pay/seat scale and vacation weeks. Bidding and everything else....rock bottom, since you are a 'new hire' into that particular subsidiary.​

 

[Jurasicpilot]

OK let me get this...

ATI a company who has been in negotiations for what six years now? Is going to hire ABX guys ---->with<---- longevity? (pay and vacation)



Some time ago someone posted if they should interview at ATI and I said "NO!!!!!!!" Because the management they have is incredibly bad. Now if anyone did go over there they have some one coming in under them with X'yrs of longevity and to hell with first year pay. Hows that make you feel?

I have nothing against ABXers Its good to see you have a place to go. I doubt ABX will be coming back and this is a good way flow people over to another certificate. However for those poor ***** already over at ATI who have been begging for a pay raise or anything.............good luck!

 

[dsee8driver]

This will probably be a hot legal battle with ATI and our contract. How can it not be a violation of our contract to bring in someone, technically a new hire, at a pay rate other then first year pay? This will most likely be a legal battle to get 12 year or whatever year pay the most senior ABX guy gets, for those affected at ATI.
While flow throughs have been common for a while, I have never heard of one tied with a pay scale and longevity in an industry that is so directly tied to seniority for advancement. This can be a very bad precedent if it goes through uncontested and a slap in the face to those who have worked at ATI through the years to earn their vacation and pay.

 

[b707guy]

It's pretty amazing to me that a contract can be signed and enacted before the damn thing is even in print!

How many years of ABX longevity do the 6 have that (I understand...) have so far transferred to ATI? By the wording of the summary quoted above, is the transferred longevity covered by our not-so-current CBA, or by ABXs for pay? In other words, do they start out at our 12 year (our current max) pay rate assuming they had over 12 years at ABX, or do they retain their pay from the ABX scale? Either way, who's writing that check? ATI and Cappy are budgeted for our existing CBAs and crew force longevity. Now there's quite a wrench thrown into that process for both companies. Not gonna help the rest of us get a pay raise in our on-going negotiations...

And nite, by your logic, we at ATI and at Cappy can negotiate your side letter out of existence since we apparently don't need to talk with your reps to do it.