Ati hiring

[nitefr8dog]

Heard on the ABX 1224 hotline ATI was hiring 12 with preferential to furloughed ABX pilots with a 2 year lock. I wonder if anyone will bite?

 

[MrSky]

Not sure what you are talking about.. Our "window" does not appear to be open for Pilots (We post all positions on our Company Website). We are hiring A&P's and Flight Attendants at this time.

At the current time I'm not sure why we would hire anyone from ABX or anywhere else. We have no new equipment coming (that we know of, rumors only) and a we have a glut of DC-8's and crews sitting around doing nothing

 

[nitefr8dog]

Not sure what you are talking about.. Our "window" does not appear to be open for Pilots (We post all positions on our Company Website). We are hiring A&P's and Flight Attendants at this time.

At the current time I'm not sure why we would hire anyone from ABX or anywhere else. We have no new equipment coming (that we know of, rumors only) and a we have a glut of DC-8's and crews sitting around doing nothing

Just repeating the 1224 hotline message, said the union was notified of hiring at ATI with preferencial given to the ABX furloughed pilots. Maybe because of the new ABX/Teamsters contract language this was "posted" thru internal means? (notice to ATSG)?.

 

[ATA For Now!]

Looks like all ATI new hires will be coming from the furloughed ABX guys.

I'm sure ATI mgmt will be commenting shortly.

 

[CaptSeth]

Looks like all ATI new hires will be coming from the furloughed ABX guys.

I'm sure ATI mgmt will be commenting shortly.

I was looking forward to massaging your buttocks. This saddens me.

 

[ATA For Now!]

I was looking forward to massaging your buttocks. This saddens me.

Me too.

 

[MrSky]

Just repeating the 1224 hotline message, said the union was notified of hiring at ATI with preferencial given to the ABX furloughed pilots. Maybe because of the new ABX/Teamsters contract language this was "posted" thru internal means? (notice to ATSG)?.

Not that I am totally opposed to "Preferential Hiring", but I have real issues on a couple points.

1. Getting what amounts to a 12 year F/O pay scale right off the bat, as opposed to someone who has worked their butt off for years here.

2. Do the ABX guys relinquish their Teamsters affiliation, and join ALPA?

3. Do the ATI Crewmembers have a "flow through" to ABX if ABX is the company that grows?

4. Do ATI Crewmembers if that were to happen, go to ABX at your pay scale?

5. Is there a "probation period" like any new hire in case we hire a real "tool". Before you ABX guys get pissed, All companies have "Tools" you, us everyone. I like to call them the 5%'ers, the guys that $uck to fly with.

6. Is their some expectation of "preferential upgrades"?

That's it fire away.....

 

[pilotgolfer]

5. Is there a "probation period" like any new hire in case we hire a real "tool". Before you ABX guys get pissed, All companies have "Tools" you, us everyone. I like to call them the 5%'ers, the guys that $uck to fly with.



That's it fire away.....

Does that mean Graber is going to ATI?...or was it Gerdes?

 

[Talon757]

Maybe Bill Beal will show up too. That would be a perfect storm.

Gentlemen, if any of these names show up, get up, don't alarm the other passengers, and quietly run out of the nearest exit.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Not that I am totally opposed to "Preferential Hiring", but I have real issues on a couple points.

1. Getting what amounts to a 12 year F/O pay scale right off the bat, as opposed to someone who has worked their butt off for years here.

2. Do the ABX guys relinquish their Teamsters affiliation, and join ALPA?

3. Do the ATI Crewmembers have a "flow through" to ABX if ABX is the company that grows?

4. Do ATI Crewmembers if that were to happen, go to ABX at your pay scale?

5. Is there a "probation period" like any new hire in case we hire a real "tool". Before you ABX guys get pissed, All companies have "Tools" you, us everyone. I like to call them the 5%'ers, the guys that $uck to fly with.

6. Is their some expectation of "preferential upgrades"?

That's it fire away.....

Not sure about a "flow through" ATI to ABX would have to see what your contract says, did you negotiate a provision for a flow through? If so there would probably be some language about pay and probation.

As far as the other questions I would have to do more research as this does not apply to me at this time.

 

[72Longhorn]

Tool rate

5. Is there a "probation period" like any new hire in case we hire a real "tool". Before you ABX guys get pissed, All companies have "Tools" you, us everyone. I like to call them the 5%'ers, the guys that $uck to fly with.

After jumping on ABX to get to work every 2 weeks, I think the tool percentage rate is a lot higher there than anywhere I've ever seen! I'm gonna say "40% ers" Don't get me wrong, there were some really cool cats over there, but man were there some real #$%#*s!!

 

[mxer]

ABX probably had the same 5-10% range. Problem that you may have seen was if the same guy going to the same city all the time happens to be one of them. Example, if the guy likes a certain layover and bids it all the time. Maybe? We had some pretty good dudes there, but we had the others as well.

 

[abxflyr1]

After jumping on ABX to get to work every 2 weeks, I think the tool percentage rate is a lot higher there than anywhere I've ever seen! I'm gonna say "40% ers" Don't get me wrong, there were some really cool cats over there, but man were there some real #$%#*s!!

Those are some pretty bold words there Longhorn. I agree that every airline has their %'ers, or tools, etc. I'll even go as far as saying that ABX has (or had) perhaps more than 5% (of 700+ = some 35 guys). Not over 10% though! It is true that often a 'bad apple' or two would end up owning a route....sometimes forever, and that is literal.

I'm looking more into what the LOA actually has in it. In general, as it has been explained to me in simple terms, it is a recall to an ATSG held company. Not really 'hiring' per sa since one would carry over their longevity for entry into another company/union payscale and vacation only. As a newbie, you'd be at the bottom of the list. The requirement is a 2 year lock-in (as mentioned) before you could return to ABX, even if your recall number at ABX passes you by. Also, if a pilot takes any position that requires a lock by the company which they are working for, such as an upgrade, then that lock-in would have to be met as well. Of course, one would be operating under another contract, work-rules, payscales, and if applicable pay dues and join another union (if required...closed shop, etc.).

I do not believe the ABX contract addresses other ATSG company furloughed pilots in any way. So there is no provision allowing nor restricting it from occuring. The other ATSG pilots would have to acquire a similiar provision with the parent company for something similar. A moot point for the ABX certificate since there are some 400+ on furlough with a 7 yr. recall right.

I'm sure the whole program will not be popular among ATI/CCI'ers and I can understand why overall. Guess we'll see where it all goes.

 

[72Longhorn]

ABX probably had the same 5-10% range. Problem that you may have seen was if the same guy going to the same city all the time happens to be one of them. Example, if the guy likes a certain layover and bids it all the time. Maybe? We had some pretty good dudes there, but we had the others as well.

Yea, I guess it's true I flew with the same people over and over because they lived in the same city as me. There was also a little Astar/ABX friction going on. I personally didn't care about either company anymore, but some guys at ABX just gave me, "THE EYE."
On the other hand, there were some really nice guys that made my jumpseat great! One of those great guys got a well deserved job at SWA.
Good luck to all Astar and ABX guys moving on. It's slim picking out there!

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Those are some pretty bold words there Longhorn. I agree that every airline has their %'ers, or tools, etc. I'll even go as far as saying that ABX has (or had) perhaps more than 5% (of 700+ = some 35 guys). Not over 10% though! It is true that often a 'bad apple' or two would end up owning a route....sometimes forever, and that is literal.

I'm looking more into what the LOA actually has in it. In general, as it has been explained to me in simple terms, it is a recall to an ATSG held company. Not really 'hiring' per sa since one would carry over their longevity for entry into another company/union payscale and vacation only. As a newbie, you'd be at the bottom of the list. The requirement is a 2 year lock-in (as mentioned) before you could return to ABX, even if your recall number at ABX passes you by. Also, if a pilot takes any position that requires a lock by the company which they are working for, such as an upgrade, then that lock-in would have to be met as well. Of course, one would be operating under another contract, work-rules, payscales, and if applicable pay dues and join another union (if required...closed shop, etc.).

I do not believe the ABX contract addresses other ATSG company furloughed pilots in any way. So there is no provision allowing nor restricting it from occuring. The other ATSG pilots would have to acquire a similiar provision with the parent company for something similar. A moot point for the ABX certificate since there are some 400+ on furlough with a 7 yr. recall right.

I'm sure the whole program will not be popular among ATI/CCI'ers and I can understand why overall. Guess we'll see where it all goes.

The way it was explained to us was the only thing the New Hire would bring over was their longevity for pay purposes only. All other rights to seniority based provisions of the CBA were to be determined by their actual seniority # on the ATI list. Again, this is third hand but this is coming from someone who has seen the language.

But as you say, "Guess we'll see where it all goes".


FAJ

 

[Ammo captain]

Why doesn't the ABX union publish this LOA so we can all see how it affects the ATI guys and gals. Better yet, why doesn't someone post the whole contract on the web, so everyone can work toward the best contracts possible.

 

[abxflyr1]

The ABX contract is still being formatted for publishing/printing from the close and signing of the agreement. I don't know why it takes so long for it to occur, but there is only person (office staff) doing the work and I'm sure they have some other duties as well. So, the CBA's final language is not even available to the membership as of yet much less anyone else. The contract might be more of a model of what not to get, rather than working toward the best possible....it is concessionary in many aspects.

The CBA summary that was given in regard to this issue is as follows:

ATSG Recall of ABX Crewmembers: Carriers under the ATSG umbrella shall recall
ABX crewmembers who are on the ABX recall list. Recalled ABX crewmembers shall retain their year’s of longevity for purposes of pay and benefits but will be placed at the bottom of the seniority list for all other purposes.

As I understood it (i.e. inserting disclaimer), the benefits part of this was for amount of vacation a pilot received. So, if you had 10 yrs of service, you would start at (ATI) in the 10 yr pay/seat scale and vacation weeks. Bidding and everything else....rock bottom, since you are a 'new hire' into that particular subsidiary.​

 

[Jurasicpilot]

OK let me get this...

ATI a company who has been in negotiations for what six years now? Is going to hire ABX guys ---->with<---- longevity? (pay and vacation)



Some time ago someone posted if they should interview at ATI and I said "NO!!!!!!!" Because the management they have is incredibly bad. Now if anyone did go over there they have some one coming in under them with X'yrs of longevity and to hell with first year pay. Hows that make you feel?

I have nothing against ABXers Its good to see you have a place to go. I doubt ABX will be coming back and this is a good way flow people over to another certificate. However for those poor ***** already over at ATI who have been begging for a pay raise or anything.............good luck!

 

[dsee8driver]

This will probably be a hot legal battle with ATI and our contract. How can it not be a violation of our contract to bring in someone, technically a new hire, at a pay rate other then first year pay? This will most likely be a legal battle to get 12 year or whatever year pay the most senior ABX guy gets, for those affected at ATI.
While flow throughs have been common for a while, I have never heard of one tied with a pay scale and longevity in an industry that is so directly tied to seniority for advancement. This can be a very bad precedent if it goes through uncontested and a slap in the face to those who have worked at ATI through the years to earn their vacation and pay.

 

[b707guy]

It's pretty amazing to me that a contract can be signed and enacted before the damn thing is even in print!

How many years of ABX longevity do the 6 have that (I understand...) have so far transferred to ATI? By the wording of the summary quoted above, is the transferred longevity covered by our not-so-current CBA, or by ABXs for pay? In other words, do they start out at our 12 year (our current max) pay rate assuming they had over 12 years at ABX, or do they retain their pay from the ABX scale? Either way, who's writing that check? ATI and Cappy are budgeted for our existing CBAs and crew force longevity. Now there's quite a wrench thrown into that process for both companies. Not gonna help the rest of us get a pay raise in our on-going negotiations...

And nite, by your logic, we at ATI and at Cappy can negotiate your side letter out of existence since we apparently don't need to talk with your reps to do it.

 

[b707guy]

But as you say, "Guess we'll see where it all goes".

FAJ

Nice new avatar, FAJ, even though it clashes with your accessories (user name)! :laugh:

See you on the line at some point!

 

[nitefr8dog]

It's pretty amazing to me that a contract can be signed and enacted before the damn thing is even in print!

How many years of ABX longevity do the 6 have that (I understand...) have so far transferred to ATI? By the wording of the summary quoted above, is the transferred longevity covered by our not-so-current CBA, or by ABXs for pay? In other words, do they start out at our 12 year (our current max) pay rate assuming they had over 12 years at ABX, or do they retain their pay from the ABX scale? Either way, who's writing that check? ATI and Cappy are budgeted for our existing CBAs and crew force longevity. Now there's quite a wrench thrown into that process for both companies. Not gonna help the rest of us get a pay raise in our on-going negotiations...

And nite, by your logic, we at ATI and at Cappy can negotiate your side letter out of existence since we apparently don't need to talk with your reps to do it.

You might very well be able to negotiate the LOA out just have to get the CEO of ATSG to agree to remove it he is the one who agreed to it in the first place. He is also the one who will be agreeing to your new contract. As far as pay goes reread the post 1 or 2 previous it says ATI 12 year pay not ABX. Just credit for years of service.

 

[nitefr8dog]

It's pretty amazing to me that a contract can be signed and enacted before the damn thing is even in print!

How many years of ABX longevity do the 6 have that (I understand...) have so far transferred to ATI? By the wording of the summary quoted above, is the transferred longevity covered by our not-so-current CBA, or by ABXs for pay? In other words, do they start out at our 12 year (our current max) pay rate assuming they had over 12 years at ABX, or do they retain their pay from the ABX scale? Either way, who's writing that check? ATI and Cappy are budgeted for our existing CBAs and crew force longevity. Now there's quite a wrench thrown into that process for both companies. Not gonna help the rest of us get a pay raise in our on-going negotiations...

And nite, by your logic, we at ATI and at Cappy can negotiate your side letter out of existence since we apparently don't need to talk with your reps to do it.

I predict at best ATI will get the exact same agreement as ABX, a flow thru agreement in the event ATI (or Cappy for that mater) is furloughing. Remember ABX asked for this as we ( the pilots at ABX ) have been watching our flying being taken away and given to ATI and Cappy while flying and hiring has increased at both carriers. Giving a pilot a job in the same organization does not seem like we are asking asking to much.

 

[abxflyr1]

Every contract I have ever been under has been implemented and enacted before hard copies were available for distribution to the masses. These occurred at both ALPA and Teamsters, so I don't find the practice of implementing contracts without having the hard copy to be an issue. It just takes time to type it into a whole document with indexes, etc. With that said, I did get a copy of the actual language but I hesitate to post it publically at this juncture. After all this is flightinfo!

My guess would be that ATI and CCI would have better luck getting the same deal in their future agreements, rather than trying to get the parent company not to abide by a signed CBA (the uphill slope is considerably steeper). Flow-thru’s have been around for a while, they are all fairly nasty in their own right. I find it odd that some think that an ABX'r hasn't 'earned' their X number of years within the ATSG umbrella. After all, we all do (or did) work for the same parent company. It's no different than the ludicrous approach of loosing your longevity when you upgrade (as some low-end companies do). At some flow-thru’s guys come into the other carrier as left-seaters (see AA/AAE), with longevity.

Regardless, I do not wish to see anything escalate to an argument level. I for one would be grateful and glad to get a job at ATI and hope that I do. Additionally, I hope that anyone who can go would be welcomed and easily fit in as part of the group. I am not aware of anyone who has already gone there (the 6 ??), since this only became effective at the beginning of this year. If anyone has gone, it's news to me!

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Nice new avatar, FAJ, even though it clashes with your accessories (user name)! :laugh:

See you on the line at some point!

I'm to cheap to pay for a user name. Besides, I've never been a slave to fashion.

 

[b707guy]

Remember ABX asked for this as we ( the pilots at ABX ) have been watching our flying being taken away and given to ATI and Cappy while flying and hiring has increased at both carriers.

I can't speak for Cappy, but YOUR flying hasn't been displaced to US. YOUR flying went away because your ride went away. 'OUR' flying has been whittled down to only 5 BAX lines, where we had 13 when I was hired on nearly 12 years ago. Not to mention our military flying reduced to less than half over that time, and charter work is spotty at best. We hired a bunch of people most recently because of a 767 (OUR 767s - planes that were on their way to us with N76xCX tail numbers before ABX Holdings bought CHI) contract in Africa that fell through after MX and support was in place. So we laid them off and then some. They all came back after recall. I don't know why we're hiring at the moment, as we have a number of planes sitting around only to be used when another breaks. And our current fleet is half what it was when I was hired. We're not hiring for attrition - no one's gone anywhere, and there certainly hasn't been any retirements. So why we're hiring right now is a mystery. Glad to see it, though! Maybe some flying is coming our way. Either way, company's keeping mum on it. Meanwhile, Cappy rarely has a single aircraft on the ramp in TOL during the day. Where am I going with all this? Well, when my head stops spinning, I'll tell you.

If the CEO of ATSG gave the OK for your new CBA to turn the tables on our pay scale, well then maybe he's got something really special in store for the rest of us.

 

[Dick Cabeza]

Regardless, I do not wish to see anything escalate to an argument level. I for one would be grateful and glad to get a job at ATI and hope that I do. Additionally, I hope that anyone who can go would be welcomed and easily fit in as part of the group. I am not aware of anyone who has already gone there (the 6 ??), since this only became effective at the beginning of this year. If anyone has gone, it's news to me![/COLOR]

Probably Way Too Late For That....

My guess is the ATI guys, especially the real new hires are fuming.......

 

[DC8-PFE]

I'm glad b707 guy jumped in with the truth of our flying. In the last 10 years ATI has been enjoying what I call the great fleet reduction campaign. Our schedules and lines of flying have been whittled down to a mere shadow of what it once was. If any of you ABX'ers really think we are taking your flying, pm me and I'll send you a copy of our current bid line and the most recent schedule. Then you'll see what kind of flying we are really doing.

 

[nitefr8dog]

I can't speak for Cappy, but YOUR flying hasn't been displaced to US. YOUR flying went away because your ride went away. 'OUR' flying has been whittled down to only 5 BAX lines, where we had 13 when I was hired on nearly 12 years ago. Not to mention our military flying reduced to less than half over that time, and charter work is spotty at best. We hired a bunch of people most recently because of a 767 (OUR 767s - planes that were on their way to us with N76xCX tail numbers before ABX Holdings bought CHI) contract in Africa that fell through after MX and support was in place. So we laid them off and then some. They all came back after recall. I don't know why we're hiring at the moment, as we have a number of planes sitting around only to be used when another breaks. And our current fleet is half what it was when I was hired. We're not hiring for attrition - no one's gone anywhere, and there certainly hasn't been any retirements. So why we're hiring right now is a mystery. Glad to see it, though! Maybe some flying is coming our way. Either way, company's keeping mum on it. Meanwhile, Cappy rarely has a single aircraft on the ramp in TOL during the day. Where am I going with all this? Well, when my head stops spinning, I'll tell you.

If the CEO of ATSG gave the OK for your new CBA to turn the tables on our pay scale, well then maybe he's got something really special in store for the rest of us.

I guess I am talking about the ATI 767 sitting in GUA the last few times I went thru there. As recently as 2mo's ago that charter was being flown by "our" pilots, (ABX). However you slice it that trip was ABX it is now ATI!... Riding to MSP this summer on CCI the captain said to me "you guys should be ok, I mean who is going to replace your lift"? To which I said" you are doing it right now".Prior to CCI flying to MSP I have been flying that trip on one aircraft or another for 12 years! At 70K per year and 35k for the FO not very much incentive for ATSG to keep ABX on "our" runs! This is not the fault of the ATI or the CCI pilots per sea but having lower pay scales has not helped. Again however you slice it ABX flying has gone to other carriers under the ATSG umbrella. I cannot think of any situation where the reverse can be said. (ATSG companies).

 

[nitefr8dog]

I'm glad b707 guy jumped in with the truth of our flying. In the last 10 years ATI has been enjoying what I call the great fleet reduction campaign. Our schedules and lines of flying have been whittled down to a mere shadow of what it once was. If any of you ABX'ers really think we are taking your flying, pm me and I'll send you a copy of our current bid line and the most recent schedule. Then you'll see what kind of flying we are really doing.

See previous post!