ATI and ABX Merging

[fob727]

Still not cheaper than Cappy. 727 burns less fuel than 767. Domestic loads are perfect fit for the aircraft size. Aircraft are relatively young and in good shape. Parts are free. Labor is cheap. Performance is outstanding. 757 will replace the 727, not the 767. You just cant undercut this scumbag outfit. At least thats what i've been hearing. Very Very sad!!!!

Scumbags?? I have met a number of the pilots and it was a pleasure to tip a few with them.

 

[727flier]

uh oh,
See there, your stating the obvious, and nobody is going to want to hear that. Sounds like that David "who the heck ever" he is, has these guys convinced that JH has to check with the Union before taking a dump....I personally don't think it will ever work that way again. I also think those days of the third highest paid pilots in the industry have come and gone also. Just my opinion.

 

[727Niteflyer]

uh oh,
See there, your stating the obvious, and nobody is going to want to hear that. Sounds like that David "who the heck ever" he is, has these guys convinced that JH has to check with the Union before taking a dump....I personally don't think it will ever work that way again. I also think those days of the third highest paid pilots in the industry have come and gone also. Just my opinion.

I agree. Just like capital had to compete against cat, kalletta charters, and expressnet, abx is now going to compete against tradewinds, world, arrow, etc...

Everybody beats their chest at how we wont work for less, just wait when you have to pay your mortgage and provide for your family.

Never say never, been there done it, not proud of it.

 

[LIGHTDRIVER]

Scumbags?? I have met a number of the pilots and it was a pleasure to tip a few with them.

Not a reference towards the crews. Sorry.

 

[727flier]

I agree. Just like capital had to compete against cat, kalletta charters, and expressnet, abx is now going to compete against tradewinds, world, arrow, etc...

Everybody beats their chest at how we wont work for less, just wait when you have to pay your mortgage and provide for your family.

Never say never, been there done it, not proud of it.

EXACTLY!!!!!
What if that "Jesus" guy (who ever he is you have running your union) says "guys we have to work for half" or even worse Cappy's pay scale, what will you do? The mortgage is due and the kids need new clothes, oh yeah the power bill is due and the car is broke. Preaching to the choir I hope, but this is a REAL possibility for you guys. What would the majority do? I suspect they would bow their heads and run the "Before Starting Engines Checklist" just like their told to do. Like a guy said in another post"everything looks different according to which side of the fish bowl your on".

Just my opinion

 

[Clipperskip]

furn burns

Still not cheaper than Cappy. 727 burns less fuel than 767. Domestic loads are perfect fit for the aircraft size. Aircraft are relatively young and in good shape. Parts are free. Labor is cheap. Performance is outstanding. 757 will replace the 727, not the 767. You just cant undercut this scumbag outfit. At least thats what i've been hearing. Very Very sad!!!!

Dear Lightdriver,

I've flown both the B727-200 and the B767-200F. The furn burns are nearly the same. The 767 carries up to 100K lbs the B727 significantly less (maybe 60K lbs). Lets not forget the extra crewmember on the B727. I think that the B757, and not the B767, is considered the a logical replacement for the B727 more due to its simular cargo capabilities not neccessarily fuel burns. Obviously the B757's operating economics are more attractive than the B727 but its cargo capabilities are comparable.

 

[nitefr8dog]

EXACTLY!!!!!
What if that "Jesus" guy (who ever he is you have running your union) says "guys we have to work for half" or even worse Cappy's pay scale, what will you do? The mortgage is due and the kids need new clothes, oh yeah the power bill is due and the car is broke. Preaching to the choir I hope, but this is a REAL possibility for you guys. What would the majority do? I suspect they would bow their heads and run the "Before Starting Engines Checklist" just like their told to do. Like a guy said in another post"everything looks different according to which side of the fish bowl your on".

Just my opinion

We already turned the first post DHL offer down $150 per hour for 767 captains. We do not have to work for Cappy pay to be more cost effective. Let's see 767 fuel burn 9000lbs an hour, 2 man crew, 100k payload, 7+ hrs range. Most of the flying will be in Central and South America. If you sharpen your pencil my guess is ABX is already the most cost effective. Now change some work rules, stop the DB plan. And ABXis cheaper than everyone without any other changes. JH already knows this or he would have been buying 727's the last 10 years instead of 767's.

 

[727Niteflyer]

We already turned the first post DHL offer down $150 per hour for 767 captains. We do not have to work for Cappy pay to be more cost effective. Let's see 767 fuel burn 9000lbs an hour, 2 man crew, 100k payload, 7+ hrs range. Most of the flying will be in Central and South America. If you sharpen your pencil my guess is ABX is already the most cost effective. Now change some work rules, stop the DB plan. And ABXis cheaper than everyone without any other changes. JH already knows this or he would have been buying 727's the last 10 years instead of 767's.

Thats why I said abx is going to find its own niche. No pitting one against the other and your not going to find a 76 in the bax system.

One of the problems that you will have with that big fuel efficient aircraft that flys 7 + hours and carries 100k of frieght is that its expensive. Got a big payment everymonth. The bax system is inefficient in that the aircraft maybe average 6 hours a day 4 days a week. Thats why 76s or 75s wont work in the bax system.

Im sure ABX will secure some contracts. But like I said the competition is going to be like aircraft, ones with longer range that can carry 100k freight. And in the charter world that freight doesnt carry the price tag of the overnight packages. Bulk freight is priced much differently.

If you look at the new generation aircraft that fly out of miami, ups 75s, 76s, lan 76s, those aircraft fly constantly round the clock. Even the challenge 75s years ago went nonstop around the clock.

Im sure ABX will find contracts. But I dont think ABX can compete against the likes of centurion, arrow, tradewinds, etc...

 

[FastHap]

Thats why I said abx is going to find its own niche. No pitting one against the other and your not going to find a 76 in the bax system.

One of the problems that you will have with that big fuel efficient aircraft that flys 7 + hours and carries 100k of frieght is that its expensive. Got a big payment everymonth. The bax system is inefficient in that the aircraft maybe average 6 hours a day 4 days a week. Thats why 76s or 75s wont work in the bax system.

I predict you will see a 767-200 freighter in Toledo flying the BAX/Schenker system very soon.

In the Jul 1st ATSG earnings conference call http://www.earnings.com/company.asp?ticker=ATSG&coid=146387&client=cb , Peter Fox was asked by an analyst if BAX/Schenker had been approached about using 767's in their system. As you mentioned the 4 day utilization was brought up as an issue. Mr. Fox went on further to say that certain city pairs would be able to have and aircraft in the BAX/Shenker system during the week, and fly charter work on the weekends. LAX is my bet on the first city.

Now, the $64,000 question is will it be an ATI plane, or an ABX?

Some further reading if you really want a flavor of what is to come. http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/ABXA/transcripts

 

[nitefr8dog]

Thats why I said abx is going to find its own niche. No pitting one against the other and your not going to find a 76 in the bax system.

One of the problems that you will have with that big fuel efficient aircraft that flys 7 + hours and carries 100k of frieght is that its expensive. Got a big payment everymonth. The bax system is inefficient in that the aircraft maybe average 6 hours a day 4 days a week. Thats why 76s or 75s wont work in the bax system.

Im sure ABX will secure some contracts. But like I said the competition is going to be like aircraft, ones with longer range that can carry 100k freight. And in the charter world that freight doesnt carry the price tag of the overnight packages. Bulk freight is priced much differently.

If you look at the new generation aircraft that fly out of miami, ups 75s, 76s, lan 76s, those aircraft fly constantly round the clock. Even the challenge 75s years ago went nonstop around the clock.

Im sure ABX will find contracts. But I dont think ABX can compete against the likes of centurion, arrow, tradewinds, etc...

I guess you missed my point about droping to Cappy pay scales. Really not that hard to figure out. Wherever or however ABX puts the 767 it really is cheaper to run than than the 727 and hauls more. Divide the 3 crew pay into the 2 crew pay our hourly wage stays the same.