ATI and ABX Merging

[727Niteflyer]

My understanding our scope is "supposed" to prevent our aircraft from being flown by another pilot group ie: ABX aircraft given to Cappy or ATI to use. Since the DHL mess our "runs" have been given to Astar over and over again, not much we could do about it and they certainly did not entertain the idea of not flying it.

wouldnt it be more accurate to say that the scope is in place to keep another pilot group from flying abx trips or freight.

If not it seems that they couldnt even sell abx aircraft to another cargo carrier.

I guess what Im asking is what would prevent abx from selling the aircraft to ati ? surely your scope couldnt stop this could it ?

 

[splatt]

It appears that ABX is now being set-up to go bankrupt. Scope that...

 

[erichartmann]

wouldnt it be more accurate to say that the scope is in place to keep another pilot group from flying abx trips or freight.

If not it seems that they couldnt even sell abx aircraft to another cargo carrier.

I guess what Im asking is what would prevent abx from selling the aircraft to ati ? surely your scope couldnt stop this could it ?

I don't recall the exact numbers, but if a certain percentage of the fleet is "sold" to ATI within a specified period of time then the crews can opt to go with the A/C.

As to if ABX crews would fly Cappy trips, on what basis do you suggest they refuse, particularly if you are not on strike? If Cappy "subcontracted" with ABX to have ABX fly a certain run would that be a violation of your scope? It would not violate ours. Would you refuse to fly a run for ABX if ABX "subcontracted" Cappy to fly a DHL trip or two, or perhaps a chater out of MIA that ABX couldn't cover? Some how I doubt it.

 

[erichartmann]

It appears that ABX is now being set-up to go bankrupt. Scope that...

The lawyers tell us that ABX alone cannot "go bankrupt", the structure of the company would require all of ATSG to file. This would have very undesireable consequences for the company as a whole.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but if a certain percentage of the fleet is "sold" to ATI within a specified period of time then the crews can opt to go with the A/C.

As to if ABX crews would fly Cappy trips, on what basis do you suggest they refuse, particularly if you are not on strike? If Cappy "subcontracted" with ABX to have ABX fly a certain run would that be a violation of your scope? It would not violate ours. Would you refuse to fly a run for ABX if ABX "subcontracted" Cappy to fly a DHL trip or two, or perhaps a chater out of MIA that ABX couldn't cover? Some how I doubt it.

I guess in a round about way thats my point. Everyone talks about whipsawing and playing one airline against the other my point is if they wanted to, they could. Nobody can do anything about it.

 

[b707guy]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but if a certain percentage of the fleet is "sold" to ATI within a specified period of time then the crews can opt to go with the A/C.

Does ABX still own the aircraft, or has ownership been transferred to CAM yet? If it hasn't happened yet, I wouldn't take any bets against it happening. And when it does, it'll happen fast. When the process hit us, we took a (minor) delay out of LAX to swap out ownership paperwork, they couldn't wait so bad!

So anyway, if X percentage of aircraft currently operated by ABX were to be transferred to ATI (and there's no indication at least from our end that that's in the works...), how are the crews enabled to opt to "go" with the aircraft? Does that mean that ATI would have to hire them on as a prerequisite for aircraft transfer. Remember, it wouldn't be a sale, if it were to take place, but CAM under ATSG shuffling their own aircraft.

 

[mxer]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but if a certain percentage of the fleet is "sold" to ATI within a specified period of time then the crews can opt to go with the A/C.




No way that could happen. Uniforms wouldn't match. JH wouldn't buy new ones and MV would have heart failure.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but if a certain percentage of the fleet is "sold" to ATI within a specified period of time then the crews can opt to go with the A/C.

As to if ABX crews would fly Cappy trips, on what basis do you suggest they refuse, particularly if you are not on strike? If Cappy "subcontracted" with ABX to have ABX fly a certain run would that be a violation of your scope? It would not violate ours. Would you refuse to fly a run for ABX if ABX "subcontracted" Cappy to fly a DHL trip or two, or perhaps a chater out of MIA that ABX couldn't cover? Some how I doubt it.

So if FEDEX bought 30 767's from ABX, how would they be forced to take the crews. Ive never heard of that.

 

[abxaviator]

It's sort of a pilots' poison pill, similiar to an executive's contract saying if his compnay is bought, the purchaser has to keep him.

 

[727flier]

sorry wrong edit button.

 

[727flier]

So lets ponder this...one company struggling, one company just took a strike vote, and the other not far behind but none the less the lowest paid of all three with pilots on welfare. Then add to that the fact that ATSG just got their pee pee slapped by the SEC for their stock being too low too long. Did I leave anything out of my synopsis of the situation?

 

[Jurasicpilot]

OUCH! Im glad your not my proctologist

 

[erichartmann]

So if FEDEX bought 30 767's from ABX, how would they be forced to take the crews. Ive never heard of that.

Our CBA requires the company to negotiate our transfer to the new owner. I recall it happened some years ago with other carriers. Pan Am & ? perhaps.

 

[erichartmann]

So lets ponder this...one company struggling, one company just took a strike vote, and the other not far behind but none the less the lowest paid of all three with pilots on welfare. Then add to that the fact that ATSG just got their pee pee slapped by the SEC for their stock being too low too long. Did I leave anything out of my synopsis of the situation?

I don't think that was the SEC, it was NASDAQ. It takes a year for the whole delisting process if all the options are played out. Then ATSG becomes a "penny stock" listed in the pink sheets.

 

[Jurasicpilot]

Actually I believe Kitty Hawk pilots went with there aircraft when Kalitta bought the planes back after the CH11 filling. Im not sure of the Pan Am deal.

 

[727flier]

Thanks,
I work for Capital and do not make enough money to be too well versed on the stock market....LOL

 

[FastHap]

You guys ready to talk yet?

 

[l8fr82hub]

Too late.

 

[FastHap]

Too late.

Well, if you guys think you are better off going it alone, then who am I to argue.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Well, if you guys think you are better off going it alone, then who am I to argue.

Let me get this straight.

A man in a grey suit walks up to the ATI union hall and knocks on the door:

KNOCK KNOCK "Hey, Hi guys. I was just in the neighbor hood and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm the guy who just toootalllly hosed your group and your contract. I know, I know. I said I would call and keep y'all up to date and all. But hey, stuff happens right?? So what do you say and let me in. I'd really like to sit down and hum a few bars of Kum BY Ya with you all."


I think that's what l8fr82hub means by "Too Late". It''s kinda like "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice........ .

FAJ