ATI and ABX Merging

[727Niteflyer]

sounds like a great deal for me. Ill give my seat up at cappy so abx guy can keep his job. I dont think it could be any more fair. Im sure all the ATI guys and gals would happily follow this plan.

 

[727flier]

LOL......I'm sure they would if that president guy signs off on that. I really don't think I have ever seen any sheep up at the hub in ATI uniforms. I doubt they would follow that, but hell, I don't know.

 

[FastHap]

OK, I give. Let's just all stay 3 separate airlines.

We will all fight for every scrap of ACMI that becomes available around the planet. One will undercut the next as the bids for the work are submitted. CAM will decide who gets the planes for the work.

Or better yet, CAM has decided ATSG will make more money dry leasing the aircraft. As nice as the Cargo Jet paint scheme is, even this ABX guy is smart enough to know those 767's would look better in ATI colors. Is the Cargo Jet 757 that's been in ILN a CAM airplane also? How much better would that look in Capitol colors?

Like I said previously, I don't have any answers, just a bunch of questions. If anyone does have the answer, or a crystal ball can you please come forward and share your knowledge.

I formally apologize to all those that I have offended on this threat and/or in this post. I meant no disrespect to anyone, their job, or their airline.

 

[l8fr82hub]

Sorry dude but I'm not willing to put my family's well being on the the line for "you could probably find away to seat protect all of the ATI DC-8 jobs". And what about our 767 jobs?

I am truly sorry for the pain DHL is inflicting on you guys, but if the tables were turned and we lost all the BAX/Schenker business I doubt there would be any interest in merging seniority lists.

 

[penguin22]

Everybody relax!!

ATI already has their own 767s and Cappy already has their own 757s. Geez, ABX is not going to take them away from you! Let's all just keep our own airplanes, OK?

We're going to have to work together on this stuff to take away any advantage ATSG has while we're 3 separate airlines.

I do think we need to be thinking about all joining together, but in the meantime nobody takes away anybody else's airplanes!

 

[nitefr8dog]

Not to sound like a smart butt but that doesn't sound like a good deal for the two airlines that are turning a profit and currently hiring with no mention of a furlough. Oh, and cappy now has 757'S, would the Kind people let our guys fly the 757'S or would they want that also. I say this in jest, and this is just a forum to discuss things, so I'm sure policy wont be set here.

What makes everyone think ABX pilots are in any hurry to end up ATI or Cappy's list or at your pay scales.When it is all said and done most of us would quit rather than work for half. You are going to be bidding on the same work ABX is while flying mostly 3 man and 3-4 engine gas hogs. The plan at ABX is 25 to 30 767 with cargo doors. We already have 19. With some adjustment to work rules ie: 13 days off instaed of 15 no more sick no charge while on reserve, 401k only instead of a DB plan, my pay remains the same and ABX can still be cheaper than most operators out there. Watchout what you wish for, if you do not think ATSG is not going to play us off each other you better get your know your new boss better.

 

[Flyer8]

Sounds like you guys will do well in the future,,I didn't know you had 19 airplanes with doors..Someone from ABX said they had 12 and then one burned in San Francisco.I guess you guys have figured out how to get ahead in the cargo door and floor line as well.Usually takes a long time to get one finished much less 19 or 12 or whatever the number is.I'm sure ABX will keep the crews on board while the mod's get done..
I am curious as to how many ER's you have with the international legs to do what our 73 model DC-8's are capable of ?
We know you guys wouldn't like to work for our wages,but why all the sudden intrest in merging 3 airlines? Talk about a circus ! How to merge the highest paid hourly wages in the industry with a mid range salary group (both Teamsters) and add in the Cappy ALPA guys who are flying for minimum wage.
Oh, and by the way we didn't initiate any merger talks..Seems like it was your union who contacted ours...

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Sorry dude but I'm not willing to put my family's well being on the the line for "you could probably find away to seat protect all of the ATI DC-8 jobs". And what about our 767 jobs?

I am truly sorry for the pain DHL is inflicting on you guys, but if the tables were turned and we lost all the BAX/Schenker business I doubt there would be any interest in merging seniority lists.

Yes, but will you still be opposed to merging the lists when ABX starts getting contracts to do the BAX/Schenker flying?

I think the point that Penguin is trying to make is that the owners of these three companies have already joined forces to work against you, the employees of all three airlines. It is now incumbent on YOU, to join forces against THEM. Don't concern yourselves with "merging seniority lists" right now...there are a thousand little things you can do that will demonstrate to management your solidarity and committment to the cause.

One of the mistakes made by Astar/ALPA was believing that their management was basically benevolent, and that solidarity could be demonstrated by attending picnics and pot-luck dinners, or wearing the same color lanyards. It's a lot tougher than that, and will undoubtedly require some personal sacrifice on everybody's part.

 

[fob727]

WD, once again; how do you know what the Astarpilots did or thought? You haven't been around in a few yrs except for an aborted simcheck and a few grievance hearings.

BTW-I've been active and don't remember any picnics or potluck dinners.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

WD, once again; how do you know what the Astarpilots did or thought? You haven't been around in a few yrs except for an aborted simcheck and a few grievance hearings.

BTW-I've been active and don't remember any picnics or potluck dinners.

Wrong on all three counts. Please stick to the subject.

 

[rotor&wing]

Wrong on all three counts. Please stick to the subject.

I'll stick to the subject Jim.

Once again you are shooting from the hip and running your mouth( the same as when you worked here).

You don't have a clue as to what went on during contract negotiations here, because you were fired and not an employee. Sure, there were a few guys still talking to you and giving you bits of information, but that was the extent of your knowledge.

One of the mistakes made by Astar/ALPA was believing that their management was basically benevolent, and that solidarity could be demonstrated by attending picnics and pot-luck dinners, or wearing the same color lanyards. It's a lot tougher than that, and will undoubtedly require some personal sacrifice on everybody's part.

Very nice pot shots at the organization that helped you get your job back the first time you were fired, and then the second time you were fired the same organization went back to bat for you. Very nice.

Comedian Ron White said it best, "You can't fix stupid!"

 

[fob727]

Ok Danny-boy. I have never once heard Astar's management described as benevolent. (that must have been the case years ago when you were employed here)

Tell me about the dinners and picnic.

 

[abxdx]

oooooohhhhh aaaaahhhhhh ooooooooh aaaaaaahhhhh ooooooohhhhhh aaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Very nice pot shots at the organization that helped you get your job back the first time you were fired, and then the second time you were fired the same organization went back to bat for you. Very nice.

Okay, we already know you threw your hostages under the bus to get a contract, and that now you're trying to demonize them so you don't look like such schmucks to the rest of your ALPA brothers. You don't have to tell us over and over again.

Try to stay on topic, OK?

 

[rotor&wing]

You and "where's my 72 hours?"-boy seem to have a real dual-standard when it comes to ALPA's obligation to protect jobs. When one of your fellow pilots gets canned, you assume it's warranted and that it's a cause for humor. You believe that ALPA's representation of it's pilots in disciplinary proceedings is some kind of "favor" that is being undertaken at your personal expense.

Of course, when you find out that your job is the next one on the chopping block, the notion of "personal" takes on whole new meaning. You want to call out the Guard. You want ALPA to file grievances, lawsuits, organize picket lines, generate radio, television, and newspaper coverage ad nauseum, pay for billboards and banner-towing airplanes here and abroad, demand congressional investigations, and even Presidential intervention if necessary. Whatever it takes to save YOUR a$$.

(Let's not forget the giant inflatable rat either. That added a real nice, professional touch, to your last picket line. Maybe next time, you can hire the "Duff Blimp" to do laps over Dasburgs house?)

You're right, you can't fix stupid.

Here's another one for ya;

"What goes around comes around"

"Very nice" eh? You want to know what my definition of "very nice" is? The fact that after Astar pilots voted (by 86%!) a humble and contrite Eastern SCAB back into the good graces of ALPA, he turned right around and schtupped them right in the ***.

Now that's "nice..."

This will be my last response to you Jim, because quite frankly I'm tired of arguing with an idiot such as yourself.

Fact: You are a fired Astar employee. You were fired the first time because of several "no shows" for trips. The excuse you used was "I don't understand my schedule". However, 500 other crewmembers never had a problem understanding theirs.

Fact:Your second firing was due to incompetence, as witnessed by the FAA Inspector that was administering a line check.

Fact: All of your licenses were revoked by the FAA due to incompetence. (This also can be found on faa.gov website under airman certificates.)

Fact: You were probably the most disliked Capt on the DC8. Other crewmembers dreaded flying with you. Crew Scheduling use to make jokes about all the sick calls on the other two seats when your name appeared on the schedule.

You despise ALPA and our MEC even though these people worked very hard to protect your rights under our contract. Even the first time around the MEC went far above the norm to get you your job back.

Okay, we already know you threw your hostages under the bus to get a contract, and that now you're trying to demonize them so you don't look like such schmucks to the rest of your ALPA brothers. You don't have to tell us over and over again.

If you are referring to yourself, you're delusional (as usual) And no, we did not "throw hostages under the bus" to get a contract. That's an absolute fallacy.

I could go on but I'm not. One thing is for sure, if Astar shuts down tomorrow it is not vindication for your lack of competence in the cockpit as you wish it to be. And the majority of pilots here will move on in their career as pilots, something you will never be able to do again.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Sounds like you guys will do well in the future,,I didn't know you had 19 airplanes with doors..Someone from ABX said they had 12 and then one burned in San Francisco.I guess you guys have figured out how to get ahead in the cargo door and floor line as well.Usually takes a long time to get one finished much less 19 or 12 or whatever the number is.I'm sure ABX will keep the crews on board while the mod's get done..
I am curious as to how many ER's you have with the international legs to do what our 73 model DC-8's are capable of ?
We know you guys wouldn't like to work for our wages,but why all the sudden intrest in merging 3 airlines? Talk about a circus ! How to merge the highest paid hourly wages in the industry with a mid range salary group (both Teamsters) and add in the Cappy ALPA guys who are flying for minimum wage.
Oh, and by the way we didn't initiate any merger talks..Seems like it was your union who contacted ours...

It;s 19 on paper according to the ABX Mtc sight, including the one that burnt up. The next one goes in for mod in Aug.The first C cont. aircraft to be modded. No ER aircraft as of yet guess we will not be after that market. S.A. does not seem to require that. My guess is that is where it will be used the most(767-200)

 

[abxdx]

7 down in MIA as of tonight. And there are customers down there that would like more. Just 1 in LAX and 1 flying for ANA. I think that ANA goes back to two planes at the end of September...

It;s 19 on paper according to the ABX Mtc sight, including the one that burnt up. The next one goes in for mod in Aug.The first C cont. aircraft to be modded. No ER aircraft as of yet guess we will not be after that market. S.A. does not seem to require that. My guess is that is where it will be used the most(767-200)

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

And no, we did not "throw hostages under the bus" to get a contract. That's an absolute fallacy.

The instant you rolled on your hostages, the company knew it was safe to roll on you. Which is what they did. The company saved a half-million dollars a year on 2 Senior DC-8 Captains they sure-as-he11 didn't need, and you got to buy some new chrome doo-dads for your motorcycle.

My kind of hero.

In 1998, the chairman of your negotiating committee brought you an industry-leading contract with a no-furlough clause. This time, thanks to you and guys like you, the company knew they didn't have to be so generous. In fact, the proposal was so full of holes in scope and furlough protection that the same individual who led the negotiations for the '98 contract wouldn't even present this one to the pilots. Of course, being a better talker than a listener, you assumed that the company was going to re-fleet with 757/767 aircraft, and that only the S/O's and a few junior F/O's would be furloughed. ("While we're at it, we'll throw them under the bus too!") You thought your seat was safe, and to he11 with the hostages, and the guys on the bottom third of the seniority list.

You were wrong. Had you protected your flanks, you wouldn't be in the position you're in right now.

Whoops! There goes the doo-dads, AND the motorcycle.

As for the rest, most of the items you list as "facts" seem to be your opinions, of which you have no shortage. The problem is, you're intolerant to the point of beligerence with anybody who doesn't share yours, which is why I never liked flying with you.

Of course, that's just my "opinion."

Now, can we all get back to the topic?

 

[FastHap]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but is the ATI 76 online yet? I thought I had seen it in ILN the past few weeks, but not sure. What gives?

During the ATSG investors conference call this week http://www.abxair.com/atsg/pr2008-08-11.html , Joe Hete indicated he expected FAA approval of the type for ATI sometime later this month.

 

[FastHap]

ATI already has their own 767s and Cappy already has their own 757s. Geez, ABX is not going to take them away from you! Let's all just keep our own airplanes, OK? ... I do think we need to be thinking about all joining together, but in the meantime nobody takes away anybody else's airplanes!

Air Transport International LLC and Capitol Cargo International Airlines "own" no aircraft, all of the planes they fly are "owned" by Cargo Aircraft Management, Inc. (CAM).

ABX Air on the the other hand owns all of it's aircraft except five that are on bank leases from Wells Fargo, etc., and apparently N714AX owned by CAM.