ATA Scheduled Service Changes

[capt. megadeth]

ATA was badly run. That's a fact. In a bad state of the world, it should have gone down. SWA had to beat ATA not just once, but at least twice, due to successive injections of govt aid. Had ATA gone down, a lot of people would have been hurt, but that's the way business is supposed to work in this country. That's what "free market" means. The well run survive and the poorly run go out of business---and yes, innocent people get hurt along the way because, overall, we're all better off if we have a system like this.

So can you blame SWA if they're taking the gloves off? They're the biggest victim of all the stupid govt aid (and overall, how much has that aid helped the business? Not a lot, just look at the state it is in...)

I do agree that ATA was badly run.

You need to put the pipe down with the comment on the bottom paragraph....are you kidding me?

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

You must have been hired before Valujet actually started screening applicants, otherwise you would have had a seat on the other side, meaning airport fence.

Not even close.

I was hired post-9/11, left a good job to come here, and since I made 737 CA in 3 years, I guess it was a good move.

I'll tell you what, though, since you think you're so great, if you can get past the hiring board, I'll let you swing my gear, chump .

 

[StopNTSing]

You must've really Ty'd one on before posting all that...

Ty:

Let me first say that I have really enjoyed your posts...I think you are a straight-shooter who calls 'em as he sees 'em. I respect that. However, this recent rant over SWA seems really out of character for you ...kinda whines, and has a big dose of flaimbait mixed in.

So you think our move on PHL was unnecessary? Afterall, there are still just so many other low-hanging pieces of fruit for us to pick, right? I guess it would have been wiser to keep our powder dry for another day and let some other unnamed carrier (rhymes with no-plan) pick up the PHL market when USAirways implodes? Fact is the old SWA M.O. of entering a market by serving secondary airports has about hit it's limit. If we are to keep growing it will have to be through more expansion into existing hub airports...and you might as well go after the weakest hubs first, eh? Hence, the recent PIT announcement (and likely CLT next). SWA is capitalizing on the demise of USAirways, but SWA did not cause the demise of USAirways.

I shouldn't even dignify your petty little jab at our pilots with a response, but what the heck. All I will say to you and all the others who decided to pile on and turn this thread into a "Hey, I remember a time when a SWA guy did this..." b!tchfest: We always have and always will work the ATC system in every way possible to get us to the airport and the gate with minimal delays. It is a part of this company's DNA and I make no apologies for it. And if you are not willing to do the same for the people and/or freight in the back that pays your salary, then get out of my way. This does not excuse unprofessional behavior of the type you described...we have our one-percenters as I'm quite sure you do as well...but I don't believe it is on the rise.

Now as for that ATA thing... This, I suspect, is the REAL reason for your rant. Shoot, nobody likes to get skunked. I know you and Joe L. thought you had this MDW thing all wrapped up. And on behalf of SWA I sincerely apologize for putting the brakes on your meteoric rise up the AirTran seniority list. But it really is all about the gates, Ty. You know it, I know it...heck, I think Lowcure might even know it. You don't honestly think SWA was going to sit back and let some other unnamed LCC (rhymes with da-man) move in and establish a major presence at MDW? AirTran did make their intentions clear...ATA is sent packing from MDW and back to the charter business and who cares beyond that... SWA's plan is likely very similar. The difference is that Gary is a better poker player than Joe and doesn't show his hole cards any sooner than he has to.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty:

Let me first say that I have really enjoyed your posts...I think you are a straight-shooter who calls 'em as he sees 'em. I respect that.

Thanks. I try.

However, this recent rant over SWA seems really out of character for you ...kinda whines, and has a big dose of flaimbait mixed in.

Call it "stirring the pot".

So you think our move on PHL was unnecessary?

Well, let's just say I think it was out of character. I think you guys are finding out how out of character it is as you enjoy the pleasures of PHL operations.

Afterall, there are still just so many other low-hanging pieces of fruit for us to pick, right?

Well, to hear your well-oiled PR machine, there is a list of cities waiting . . . no, wait, make that begging for SWA to serve them, so why go into a decrepit airport known for it's WX problems and delays, if not to force USAirways over the cliff?

I guess it would have been wiser to keep our powder dry for another day and let some other unnamed carrier (rhymes with no-plan) pick up the PHL market when USAirways implodes?

Hmmm . . . Actually, AirTran does have a plan, it's just not as grandiose as SWA's brash new M.O. under Gary Kelly. See, our way is to operate on a smaller, gradual scale, under the radar. Before you came into PHL, we had quietly ramped up to 19 flights a day out of PHL. Pretty small potatoes for you guys, but for our little operation, 19 flights a day is pretty happening stuff.

All I will say to you and all the others who decided to pile on and turn this thread into a "Hey, I remember a time when a SWA guy did this..." b!tchfest: We always have and always will work the ATC system in every way possible to get us to the airport and the gate with minimal delays. It is a part of this company's DNA and I make no apologies for it. And if you are not willing to do the same for the people and/or freight in the back that pays your salary, then get out of my way.

We are all for working within the system, but cutting people off on the ramp and pretending to not hear ATC in today's crowded environment is a dangerous game. Sure, it's OK when only one company is doing it, and the rest of us are watching out for you, but what happens when all of us start doing it? Then what?

Now as for that ATA thing... This, I suspect, is the REAL reason for your rant. Shoot, nobody likes to get skunked. I know you and Joe L. thought you had this MDW thing all wrapped up. And on behalf of SWA I sincerely apologize for putting the brakes on your meteoric rise up the AirTran seniority list.

Wrong again, Chief. As I said on this board many times, a MDW hub wasn;t going to help me at all- it was actually going to make my life worse. Who in their right mind would want to now choose between being the bottom of the ATL list, or take a two-leg commute to MDW to escape reserve? Not me. For personal reasons, I am glad it didn't go through. Plus now, I get to watch your company screw over all those ATA dudes, and hear them whine about SWA instead of AirTran.

The difference is that Gary is a better poker player than Joe and doesn't show his hole cards any sooner than he has to.

It ain't over til it's over, and we'll let history be the judge. I think Gary Kelly is in the process of undoing 30 years of goodwill built by Herb and Colleen, but we'll have to stay tuned to see if that is true, too. Hang onto your hat, partner, it's going to get interesting.

Oh, and for what it's worth- keep on underestimating Joe L. and Bob F. We enjoyed it when Delta did . . . .

 

[T45Flyer]

What StopNTSing Said!

Very nice post.

 

[Ty Webb]

Why don't you just get your nose in there a little closer?

 

[T45Flyer]

Ty,
Wow, you probably should quit posting and get some therapy for what ever it is that upsets you so much about SWA. StopNTSings post was postive and void of name calling, your posts have become just the opposite.

Your company lost the MDW bid, no big deal, I am sure Airtran will succeed in other areas, just dust yourself off, get back on your horse and quit pointing at SWA and saying that we are the cause of all your woo's.

 

[Ty Webb]

I need therapy? Heh-heh.

Maybe you need some Kool-aid antivenin . . . but I am sure such an original thought never crossed your mind.

Good night- you guys have yourself a good one, y'hear?

 

[HalinTexas]

We at ATA are fully aware that this deal with SWA might be just a kinder-gentler version of the Airtran deal. However, everyone here views a preferential interview with SWA in higher regard than one with Airtran, particularly considering their growth plans, and I don't have to do Airtran flying while they train people to take my place.

The codeshare deal has not been worked out yet, but the potential is astounding. Hawaii is the most obvious that SWA will take advantage of, and I'm sure they're not ignoring SJU and the rest of the carribean. It is a far cry from just the MDW takeover, and dump 'em philosophy that Airtran put forth.

Let's hope that we get new managment that will take advantage of the opportunity given us and makes this deal work.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Not even close.

I was hired post-9/11, left a good job to come here, and since I made 737 CA in 3 years, I guess it was a good move.

I'll tell you what, though, since you think you're so great, if you can get past the hiring board, I'll let you swing my gear, chump .

Wow, is this what you think of your FO's? You must be fun to fly with!

"NOT"

 

[Ty Webb]

Wow, is this what you think of your FO's? You must be fun to fly with!

"NOT"

Why don't you read the comment that inspired that statement, Jim, before you start jumping to conclusions.

 

[flyhard]

Plus now, I get to watch your company screw over all those ATA dudes, and hear them whine about SWA instead of AirTran.


Now that is spoken like a true chump. I hope you enjoy Delta's assault on the ATL hub soon.

 

[HalinTexas]

Now that is spoken like a true chump. I hope you enjoy Delta's assault on the ATL hub soon.

Frankly, I'm surprised DAL hasn't done it sooner, like right after they changed their name. Consider yourselves pretty lucky.

 

[75M]

flyhard,

Only half of FL's operation is dependent on the ATL hub. The only thing DAL will accomplish by "fortifying their hub" will be to dillute their own yield. This will happen because a higher percentage of their flying becomes connecting traffic. Conversely, as we branch out into new markets, minihubs, focus cities, whatever you might call them, we are increasing our O&D traffic and reducing our vulnerability in ATL.

The industry is littered with airlines that have downsized their non hub flying and fortified their master base. I don't see Delta's assault on ATL to be anything new.

 

[Ty Webb]

Frankly, I'm surprised DAL hasn't done it sooner, like right after they changed their name. Consider yourselves pretty lucky.

Delta has been trying for years. They launched service to every proprietary city we served from ATL, they dumped seats onto the routes at prices they can't sustain, and they try to sit on gates at ATL so that we can't have 'em.

In other words, they have tried every trick in the book . . . . and it hasn't worked. In fact, we have doubled in size, upgraded our fleet, paid down our debt, and stuck some money in the bank . . . . .

Since you're so smart, what do you think they should do now? Inquiring minds want to know what Hal in Texas has to say. We're all standing by.

PS, sorry about your Avatar. She said to let you know she went over to the dark side . . . . .

 

[HalinTexas]

Delta hasn't tried very hard in my book, but that's their decision. Song was their decision, too, and you see how that's worked out.

It's probably too late to do much about it now, except don't lose any more market share, match fares, like AMR is doing to you in DFW. Advertise in the same markets, the same way Airtran does, but mention DAL international connections and provide better incentives to fly DAL vs. "TyWebbTran" at the same fares. There's lots of things they could have done, but they, like most legacy carriers, try to be all things to all people.

Since you've only been there 3 years, what do you know? Did you know that Valujet tried to buy American Trans Air about 8 years ago after the crash for about 27/share? Stan Pace was running the show, and subsquently asked to leave, golden parachute in tact. George could have walked away with a bunch of money.

Avitar edited: she can't see you now.

 

[Ty Webb]

It's tribal knowledge that we had talked with ATA, AWA, Frontier and others over the years, but I never heard it spelled out quite like that.

If Alaska wants to buy us, I'll gladly sell 'em my shares and options . . .

Waddaya think, FLX757?

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Personally, I believe that SWA will pull a DAL/PanAm like deal.

My reasoned argument... facts as I see them:

SWA wanted the gates at MDW (duh)
SWA hates bad press (not that they ever seem to get any)
SWA could care less about IND (except for service on SWA metal)
SWA has not been particularly nice to the previous outfits they bought
and finally, they wanted to deny FL a easy target.

I just don't see them code sharing long term, and all the nonsense that goes along with it...joint ticketing, bag interchange and trying to provide customer service on ANOTHER airline is always something they have avoided like the plauge in the past, and has been, in some measure, responsible for their success.

ATA is the anti-SWA. Multiple fleets, regional codeshare, trying to hub instead of focus.

Personally, and as much as it pains me to say it, I think that SWA will funnel just enough cash to keep ATA afloat for a few months. Just enough time for the bad press to be easily contained and allow them to consolidate what they want to pluck out. Let ATA retreat into IND to compete with plenty of competition. String it out far enough so that SWA has settled into their gates at MDW (what they REALLY wanted) and just pull the plug.

There will be some grumbling in IND. No one will care in MDW. Chances are it will miss the national news entirely. I'm sure they can spin it to make NWA look like the bad guy for invading IND, and SWA gets away clean.

Nu

 

[atafan]

Ty,

I'm so sick of watching all the vultures fight over the ATA carcas, you guys make me sick and I'm embarassed to even be in your same business. You may be at the bottom looking up some day, go ahead have fun kicking us now, we'll see who has the last laugh.

Plus now, I get to watch your company screw over all those ATA dudes, and hear them whine about SWA instead of AirTran.

I know a lot of excellent AirTran pilots but you are not one.

FU

You are a major Farking A-Hole.

 

[1800 RVR]

What the fu*k?!?

Plus now, I get to watch your company screw over all those ATA dudes, and hear them whine about SWA instead of AirTran.

You know, Ty, I have thought some people may have been tough on you some times. But, this is absolutely the most ignorant thing I have ever read! You have become such an ignorant, self-serving, and loathesome individual with this quote. God forbid you be in this position somewhere down the road! I hope you enjoy your left seat - pray that it lasts!

I can't believe that you want ATA folks to be screwed over - you represent AirTran with dignity, humility, and grace - NOT!