ATA Airlines Announces Suspension of Service to/from Denver, Indianapolis and San Jua

[rudderdog]

If SWA had not stepped in, ATA would be gone already. (IMHFO)

Who the hell do you think made the merger not happen???......If SWA had not stepped in, ATA would be merging with AWA....not dying a slow death.

 

[HalinTexas]

I don't believe anyone at SWA, managment wise, gives a dman about ATA. We are/were the sacrificial lamb to keep Airtran (or anyone else) out of MDW. There may be a few in the upper echelons that see potential in aligning themselves with a turnkey global operator, but that requires "coloring outside the box." Too bad. With SWAPA's merger policy, there could have been some senior (or maybe junior) crews taking a B737 to KEF or doing BUD-KWI turns on the L10 or B757. Pretty barmaids in BUD I hear.

ATA/AWA could have worked. However, I don't believe Parker wanted the B737 leases/airplanes, since AWA was phasing theirs out. I've heard that this was the first domino to fall, resulting in the whole deal falling through.

All of this is conjecture. SWA has many irons in the fire. Playing several hands with all the cards close to the chest. They've always played that way. LAX and PHL ops., WA repeal fight, BFI plan, MDW growth, now DEN. Who knows what's in store with GK driving. :nuts:

 

[HalinTexas]

We don't have life rafts....only the vests.

Rafts fit in the overheads.

Other equipment can be stowed elsewhere.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Less than 10 furloughed ATA pilots, of the 50-60 that were qualified, were hired as a result of the preferential interview that expired in April. About 5 have been hired outside of this opportunity. The hiring rate for those that have interviewed at SWA in the last year has been less than one in five.

We all knew that DEN was going away, once SWA moved in. Loads were too good, and most were codeshares. DEN-PHX was successful the first week. IND had been dead for over a year. No suprise there. SJU is a surprise. SWA must planning on going in soon. They have overwater equiped aircraft already.

We have approx. 850 active pilots on the list. Down from 1100. Another 100-200 to be furloughed beginning in Jan. (100 confirmed with the likelihood of more coming)

We've heard that there is more news coming in the next week. Stay tuned. Just remember, it's A-T-A not A-T-who?

I am surprised and truly saddened by the news about ATA's further shrinkage. The interview statistics are shocking. I hope the 767 deal goes thru. Focus on international or military charter would really help right now.

I don't think SWA has a say in where ATA flies. I don't think the companies are that closely linked. That is why, I'm assuming, SWA feels free to encroach on ATA's profitable routes.

 

[HalinTexas]

I don't think SWA has a say in where ATA flies. I don't think the companies are that closely linked.

I disagree, but I have no evidence other than coincidence and correlation.

2 + 2 still equals 4 at ATA.

But don't ask them anything about 10. They will lose it!

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hal,

I agree with most of your observations. I don't know about the interview stats because I haven't taken the time to add them up.

Rudderdog, do you actually think SWA would let AirTran or AWA get those gates. I suppose my post wasn't entirely clear, however, I will say again, you can't blame SWA for being smart. I can't blame you for being angry, but, at this point, you take the cards you are dealt and make your best hand. My guess is I will be gone before you.

best of luck to all

 

[rudderdog]

I see what you're saying about SWA being smart. How true and who can blame them. I was just stating the fact that the AWA deal was so close to being done and SWA scuttled it. When it comes right down to it, it was their fault. Btw, I'm gone already, having more fun than ever.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I don't believe anyone at SWA, managment wise, gives a dman about ATA. We are/were the sacrificial lamb to keep Airtran (or anyone else) out of MDW. There may be a few in the upper echelons that see potential in aligning themselves with a turnkey global operator, but that requires "coloring outside the box." Too bad. With SWAPA's merger policy, there could have been some senior (or maybe junior) crews taking a B737 to KEF or doing BUD-KWI turns on the L10 or B757. Pretty barmaids in BUD I hear.

:nuts:

Of course noone in management gives a $hit about ATA. They are the sacrificial lamb to keep the competition out. I realize business is business. If ATA management didn't screw up.....SWA would never have had the opportunity to do all this. The thing that pisses me off is all the kool-aid drinkers at SWA that think their airline is all FUKIN KUMBAYA and crap! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE JET-A PEOPLE! If SWA was all rosey and friendly, they would have hired more ATA guys/gals and the preferential interviews would have continued. They also would have at least given the qualified C8 pilots a pref. interview before all of them went out and spent $8000 on a type only to get rejected later.

Now excuse me....I have to go take my blood pressure meds now.

 

[jetalc]

ATA pulling out of Denver sucks - I always enjoyed commuting on them when one of our own flights wasn't for another couple of hours. They have always been tremendously kind and professional to me.

 

[Special Ed]

Hey Mega...I wish you'd taken your meds before you made your post... perhaps now that your medicated, you can explain to everyone why SWA OWES you a job, or even a preferential interview above say, a Military pilot, whose last 7 years have been spent inhaling sand & enjoying the dry heat, Or a US Air guy, who, after 10 years of gringing it out on the line watched his future being pee'd away by management. Perhaps you feel you should be in front of a commuter or freight guy, who fly barely legal schedules and crap equipment with the hopes of moving on...
SW management is responsible ONLY to SW Employees, sorry if you are working at an airline that couldn't turn a profit, but stop whining that it's someone elses management group that hosed you guys. Face it, you needed a merger, buyout or some other white knight to come along and save your company, because it wasn't going to make it on its own... Sorry SW didn't hire many ATA people, but the codeshare and cash infusion from SW kept YOUR paycheck coming for much longer than would have happened if you'd had to stand alone. Your attitude reminds me of a hitchhiker I picked up a long time ago in west Texas... hotter than H#ll, but the guy starts griping that my A/C isnt working.
Pilots were interviewed without having to buy a type... in fact, the standard MO for a guy without a type is that he/she is hired, then given 6 mo's to get the type... Or were you talking about the ALREADY typed 737 guys at ATA... Hmmm, yea, I'd bet ATA paid for those types, during upgrade.
As far as preferential interviews, seems pretty charitable by SW... they didn't do it for WestPac guys when SW got 4 of their airplanes.
Lastly, I'm tired of the attitude that you presented that someone OWES you something. SWA IS a kumbaya company because it's lead by the very best management team in the business, and takes care of their employees, but thats where the responsibility stops. Evidently, You want to work there too, or you wouldn't be so pissed... but if you want to go to work for a charity, perhaps the Red Cross is hiring. Don't blame SW because you didn't get a share of the pie that they work very hard to get. The really good news is I'm fairly certain that SW didn't come out and put a padlock on your mailbox. Your free to go to work for anyone thats hiring (and that will hire you), or are you mad at FedEx, UPS, and everyone else that didn't give you a preferential interview.
I've met a lot of ATA guys, and they are a fine group, really excellent... I hope you attitude is pretty isolated.
Best of luck to everyone,
Ed

 

[atafan]

I've met a lot of ATA guys, and they are a fine group, really excellent... I hope you attitude is pretty isolated.

I don't believe Megadeath ever worked for ATA Airlines.

******************************************
You can all say what you will but SWA will continue the codeshare with ATA. ATA will, for the most part, fly only International routes / Military OPs and after the airline is cut to the bone and out of BK will have a much closer relationship, publicly, with SWA.

Don't anyone on this board kid yourself, SWA is calling all the route planning shots at ATA and even personnel changes at ATA.

ATA will survive at the will of the master. I'd rather be the ramora on the shark then the grouper feeding at the bottom.

 

[capt. megadeth]

SW management is responsible ONLY to SW Employees. Sorry SW didn't hire many ATA people, but the codeshare and cash infusion from SW kept YOUR paycheck coming for much longer than would have happened if you'd had to stand alone.
Pilots were interviewed without having to buy a type...
As far as preferential interviews, seems pretty charitable by SW... they didn't do it for WestPac guys when SW got 4 of their airplanes.
Lastly, I'm tired of the attitude that you presented that someone OWES you something. SWA IS a kumbaya company because it's lead by the very best management team in the business, and takes care of their employees, but thats where the responsibility stops. Evidently, You want to work there too, or you wouldn't be so pissed

Hey Skippy,
I don't work at ATA. I never have. I didn't even work at Chicago Express when SWA put the nail in their coffin.
Hmmmm.....how charitable of SWA....giving supposed pref. interivews....how many actually got hired?
Um, no, actually I don't want to work there. I have a job that I didn't get by a preferential interview.

Yes, you are right....they do take care of their employees...that's fine. I am sick of the "we are so great, we luv everybody" BULL$HIT! They love themselves and that is fine. That seems to be running rampant in this country these days. Self love. Fuk everybody else. Just admit it....stop putting on the kumbaya show. I can see right through it and with the latest SWA/ATA jokeshare so can many others.

Ok, off for some psych meds.....

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hey Skippy,
I don't work at ATA. I never have.

whew!! that is a relief.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

"They" ATA or "they" SWA??

If you meant ATA, then the answer is yes. LAX and SFO. Also PHX. You can argue amongst yourselves as to whether or not PHX is "west coast".

I'm not feeling much "luv".

Why not argue whether or not Oakland is "west coast"

 

[In The Wind]

To make things clear, SW has already saved ATA, I have been able to feed my family this past year thanks to SW. I would't have under the FL deal. As for the bad guys, we were F?#!K by our previous MGT. or lack of it. Where things go from here who knows. There are still some solid companys hiring now. Hopefully ATA will make it, if not I maybe lucky enough to be hired with a new company that is solid, but to be pissed of at that company because I didn't interview well that day, only I can blame myself for that. As I have herd by the noble one "Remain Calm ". As I say again " Remain Calm ".

 

[roughneck]

Unfortunetly, you will see us going into more and more "ATA" cities. ATA will draw back as a result, but it is just business. ATA will grow its international route structure and we will provide the feed for those operations. We entered into codeshare with ATA as a means to increase profits and market share (especially at MDW). The positive side effect was that ATA has been able to employ and pay many employees longer than if we hadn't. We were able to increase our presence and marketshare in certain cities as a result.

SWA is not predatory and never has been. We are however, schrewd competitors and we rarely get cought sleeping. We saw an oportunity and we took it as any other company would have.

I hope the best for the ATA folks and I think in the long run ATA will find its niche and will do very well. Unfortunetly, they were spread too thin cash wise to make its current model work.

I do think we are committed to ATA for the long run and we will see a successful business relationship that is beneficial to both companies and ALL employees.

 

[Andy G]

Roughneck, 'committed for the longrun'.Sure hope you're right. 'Successful business relationship beneficial to both and ALL employees'.Again,hope you're right but it looks like there will be alot of employees(possibly yours truly,included)that will be shortly out on the street and not benefitting at all not to mention the already laid-off employees.I guess we will know the 'grand plan' soon.

 

[SWA/FO]

Well said Special Ed....only a few posts so far but you sure make them count.

I think Capt. Mega works for UPS. Q = "What can Brown do for you?"
A = She can shut her mouth ASAP... thanks
(well, it was quite for awhile...oh well..)

 

[Special Ed]

Hey Mega,
It appears you missed the point of my post, but I do like the way you can cut and paste pieces from it, without taking it all, in a lame attempt to prove whatever it was you were trying to prove. Mostly, all I am seeing is a bitter jealous rant from another product of the "now" generation ... (you know the type, they put their kids into t-ball and soccer games that don't keep score.... don't want to traumatize little Billy with "losing"... everyone gets a trophy)
NEWSFLASH: Life is competitive, Business is competitive. SWA's kumbaya attitude comes because their team is winning... and unfortunately, when there are winners, there will also be losers. No one at Southwest wants to see anyone lose their job. No pilot ever thought it was neato that Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, TWA etc. went away...no one wants that..., but look me in the eyes and tell me the other airlines didn't profit from it. You have to be one sick fukkr to delight in the hardship of others. But alot of times, in order for your team to win, something has to give. As I stated, the Pilots I've met from ATA are a fine group, and do their jobs well. For the most part, they will land on their feet. There are jobs out there for them, but it's not a SW responsibility to get it for them. The management at SW first responsibility is to their employees, not to the ATA folks.
Perhaps I am hardened....You see, I am a product of the airline world before the ADA opened the gates for everyone. In my day, if you didnt have 20-20 vision, a 4 year degree, or were older than 30, you were not even marketable...not even considered, even with thousands of hours. In my day, you had to have a physical like no other... As part of the application process, American would send a tube for a feces sample (go ahead and laugh, we all did... said the guy at American cracked open the tube and sniffed it, and if it didn't stink, you'd be interviewed). Delta put you on a rocking chair in front of the shrink... If you rocked, he wrote fast and looked at you funny, if you didn't rock, he wrote even faster and looked at you funny. You know what was sad about those times... it was the fine pilots that missed out of a great career because of a physical limitation like a vision waiver, or that their Grandpa died early of a heart attack... (yea, that stuff was disciminating too) You know what was great about those times... I don't remember anyone running around with the "woe is me, the world owes me something" attitude thats all over the place today... especially in your posts. The point I was trying to make is that there are plenty of people deserving of a chance to interview... but I don't think being at a failing carrier should put you to the head of the line.
Thats my opinion...
Best Wishes to All
Ed

 

[SWA/FO]

Well put Special ED.... I agree 100%. Now if I typed that they would attempt to call me every name in the book. You sure make your posts count!