ATA Airlines Announces Suspension of Service to/from Denver, Indianapolis and San Jua

[atafan]

I've met a lot of ATA guys, and they are a fine group, really excellent... I hope you attitude is pretty isolated.

I don't believe Megadeath ever worked for ATA Airlines.

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You can all say what you will but SWA will continue the codeshare with ATA. ATA will, for the most part, fly only International routes / Military OPs and after the airline is cut to the bone and out of BK will have a much closer relationship, publicly, with SWA.

Don't anyone on this board kid yourself, SWA is calling all the route planning shots at ATA and even personnel changes at ATA.

ATA will survive at the will of the master. I'd rather be the ramora on the shark then the grouper feeding at the bottom.

 

[capt. megadeth]

SW management is responsible ONLY to SW Employees. Sorry SW didn't hire many ATA people, but the codeshare and cash infusion from SW kept YOUR paycheck coming for much longer than would have happened if you'd had to stand alone.
Pilots were interviewed without having to buy a type...
As far as preferential interviews, seems pretty charitable by SW... they didn't do it for WestPac guys when SW got 4 of their airplanes.
Lastly, I'm tired of the attitude that you presented that someone OWES you something. SWA IS a kumbaya company because it's lead by the very best management team in the business, and takes care of their employees, but thats where the responsibility stops. Evidently, You want to work there too, or you wouldn't be so pissed

Hey Skippy,
I don't work at ATA. I never have. I didn't even work at Chicago Express when SWA put the nail in their coffin.
Hmmmm.....how charitable of SWA....giving supposed pref. interivews....how many actually got hired?
Um, no, actually I don't want to work there. I have a job that I didn't get by a preferential interview.

Yes, you are right....they do take care of their employees...that's fine. I am sick of the "we are so great, we luv everybody" BULL$HIT! They love themselves and that is fine. That seems to be running rampant in this country these days. Self love. Fuk everybody else. Just admit it....stop putting on the kumbaya show. I can see right through it and with the latest SWA/ATA jokeshare so can many others.

Ok, off for some psych meds.....

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hey Skippy,
I don't work at ATA. I never have.

whew!! that is a relief.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

"They" ATA or "they" SWA??

If you meant ATA, then the answer is yes. LAX and SFO. Also PHX. You can argue amongst yourselves as to whether or not PHX is "west coast".

I'm not feeling much "luv".

Why not argue whether or not Oakland is "west coast"

 

[In The Wind]

To make things clear, SW has already saved ATA, I have been able to feed my family this past year thanks to SW. I would't have under the FL deal. As for the bad guys, we were F?#!K by our previous MGT. or lack of it. Where things go from here who knows. There are still some solid companys hiring now. Hopefully ATA will make it, if not I maybe lucky enough to be hired with a new company that is solid, but to be pissed of at that company because I didn't interview well that day, only I can blame myself for that. As I have herd by the noble one "Remain Calm ". As I say again " Remain Calm ".

 

[roughneck]

Unfortunetly, you will see us going into more and more "ATA" cities. ATA will draw back as a result, but it is just business. ATA will grow its international route structure and we will provide the feed for those operations. We entered into codeshare with ATA as a means to increase profits and market share (especially at MDW). The positive side effect was that ATA has been able to employ and pay many employees longer than if we hadn't. We were able to increase our presence and marketshare in certain cities as a result.

SWA is not predatory and never has been. We are however, schrewd competitors and we rarely get cought sleeping. We saw an oportunity and we took it as any other company would have.

I hope the best for the ATA folks and I think in the long run ATA will find its niche and will do very well. Unfortunetly, they were spread too thin cash wise to make its current model work.

I do think we are committed to ATA for the long run and we will see a successful business relationship that is beneficial to both companies and ALL employees.

 

[Andy G]

Roughneck, 'committed for the longrun'.Sure hope you're right. 'Successful business relationship beneficial to both and ALL employees'.Again,hope you're right but it looks like there will be alot of employees(possibly yours truly,included)that will be shortly out on the street and not benefitting at all not to mention the already laid-off employees.I guess we will know the 'grand plan' soon.

 

[SWA/FO]

Well said Special Ed....only a few posts so far but you sure make them count.

I think Capt. Mega works for UPS. Q = "What can Brown do for you?"
A = She can shut her mouth ASAP... thanks
(well, it was quite for awhile...oh well..)

 

[Special Ed]

Hey Mega,
It appears you missed the point of my post, but I do like the way you can cut and paste pieces from it, without taking it all, in a lame attempt to prove whatever it was you were trying to prove. Mostly, all I am seeing is a bitter jealous rant from another product of the "now" generation ... (you know the type, they put their kids into t-ball and soccer games that don't keep score.... don't want to traumatize little Billy with "losing"... everyone gets a trophy)
NEWSFLASH: Life is competitive, Business is competitive. SWA's kumbaya attitude comes because their team is winning... and unfortunately, when there are winners, there will also be losers. No one at Southwest wants to see anyone lose their job. No pilot ever thought it was neato that Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, TWA etc. went away...no one wants that..., but look me in the eyes and tell me the other airlines didn't profit from it. You have to be one sick fukkr to delight in the hardship of others. But alot of times, in order for your team to win, something has to give. As I stated, the Pilots I've met from ATA are a fine group, and do their jobs well. For the most part, they will land on their feet. There are jobs out there for them, but it's not a SW responsibility to get it for them. The management at SW first responsibility is to their employees, not to the ATA folks.
Perhaps I am hardened....You see, I am a product of the airline world before the ADA opened the gates for everyone. In my day, if you didnt have 20-20 vision, a 4 year degree, or were older than 30, you were not even marketable...not even considered, even with thousands of hours. In my day, you had to have a physical like no other... As part of the application process, American would send a tube for a feces sample (go ahead and laugh, we all did... said the guy at American cracked open the tube and sniffed it, and if it didn't stink, you'd be interviewed). Delta put you on a rocking chair in front of the shrink... If you rocked, he wrote fast and looked at you funny, if you didn't rock, he wrote even faster and looked at you funny. You know what was sad about those times... it was the fine pilots that missed out of a great career because of a physical limitation like a vision waiver, or that their Grandpa died early of a heart attack... (yea, that stuff was disciminating too) You know what was great about those times... I don't remember anyone running around with the "woe is me, the world owes me something" attitude thats all over the place today... especially in your posts. The point I was trying to make is that there are plenty of people deserving of a chance to interview... but I don't think being at a failing carrier should put you to the head of the line.
Thats my opinion...
Best Wishes to All
Ed

 

[SWA/FO]

Well put Special ED.... I agree 100%. Now if I typed that they would attempt to call me every name in the book. You sure make your posts count!

 

[Thunderchief]

SWA Codeshare

Has SWA commited to the 7 year codeshare yet? If not then when? If they don't I see that as the end of ATA.... Any observations or info?

 

[apdsm]

Has SWA commited to the 7 year codeshare yet? If not then when? If they don't I see that as the end of ATA.... Any observations or info?

How is a seven year codeshare going to save ATA?

 

[atafan]

How is a seven year codeshare going to save ATA?

The 7 year agreement will not "SAVE" ATA. ATA has been dismantled and restructured to codeshare with SWA, investors have been sold on the codeshare concept. If SWA did not renew the agreement then I would guess that the new investors would back out since ATA has put most all the eggs in that basket.

The hard work and sincere dedication of ATA's employees are the only thing that has carried ATA this far and I believe we are the only ones who will save ATA.

To answer the original question: The codeshare has not been renewed yet because it has not expired, I expect the agreement to be renewed in January 2006.

 

[canyonblue737]

Yes, you are right....they do take care of their employees...that's fine. I am sick of the "we are so great, we luv everybody" BULL$HIT! They love themselves and that is fine. That seems to be running rampant in this country these days. Self love. Fuk everybody else. Just admit it....stop putting on the kumbaya show. I can see right through it and with the latest SWA/ATA jokeshare so can many others.

Ok, off for some psych meds.....

See I actually know this psychotic but she is only nuts half the time.

That said I simply challenge you Capt. Megadeath to show any, any airline in this industry that bases strategic moves on the moral implications to a group of employees that are not their own, in particular the group of employees of an already troubled company? Is it lack of "LUV" or it simply business sense?

I do believe that SWA entered into this codeshare in the belief that if ATA gained traction (perhaps if oil had gone down or better deals were struck on the leases with Boeing) that they would have a strong codeshare partner and if ATA began to slide they would be well placed to gain market share in ATA cities and additional gates. Win-win ya know? Was SWA out day one to stick it to ATA? I don't think so, but they knew going in that their deal insured they couldn't lose either way and that is smart business.

Knowing as many ATA pilots as we do I was disappointed that more were not hired. Just like you I have been disappointed at the very low hire percentage at SWA overall for all interviewing pilots. But the results speak for themselves and the folks who do make it inside are by and large all class acts (obviously I am an exception, ha-ha). Once inside the walls I can assure you that SWA does "LUV" their own and take care of their own. That attitude is at their very core, and it is very real... it just doesn't and can't extend to the rest of the industry or our competitive strength will simply be usurped by a company willing to make the tough decisions to win.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

See I actually know this psychotic but she is only nuts half the time.

That said I simply challenge you Capt. Megadeath to show any, any airline in this industry that bases strategic moves on the moral implications to a group of employees that are not their own, in particular the group of employees of an already troubled company? Is it lack of "LUV" or it simply business sense?

I agree with much of what Canyonblue writes but I have trouble with the choice of words in bold. I think SWA acts morally towards other businesses and goes further, the extra mile, to help out their own. I think Canyon meant that.

I think Southwest is acting ethically and in line with what they have done in years past. I say this in regards to codeshare and new service. We all should know what Southwest is doing. They are buying 35 or so planes a year and adding service in either new or existing markets. If SWA doesn't Airtran, JetBlue, Frontier or others will. We have to be aware of this state of affairs.

Competition in this industry is a B#$^*. The oil shock this year is killing carriers that need a break. I don't think JetBlue, Airtran, Frontier, or Spirit would be giving ATA a break either. Airtran is also attacking ATA's service to MSP. They would have sooner if they were operating out of the gates Southwest managed to acquire.

I don't know what kind of hand shake deal was made or is rumored to exist. Is there one? A few folks that worked for ATA over the years saw the handwriting on the wall and walked over to the SWA side even before 9/11. Not all who tried were successful. It was probably easier to move over then too. I'm sorry about that. This deregulation and republican thing has made lottery winners out of some of us and hurt many others.

Everyday I pray ATA gets a break and stops the slide. Its about time.