ATA Airlines Announces Suspension of Service to/from Denver, Indianapolis and San Jua

[Thunderchief]

SWA Codeshare

Has SWA commited to the 7 year codeshare yet? If not then when? If they don't I see that as the end of ATA.... Any observations or info?

 

[apdsm]

Has SWA commited to the 7 year codeshare yet? If not then when? If they don't I see that as the end of ATA.... Any observations or info?

How is a seven year codeshare going to save ATA?

 

[atafan]

How is a seven year codeshare going to save ATA?

The 7 year agreement will not "SAVE" ATA. ATA has been dismantled and restructured to codeshare with SWA, investors have been sold on the codeshare concept. If SWA did not renew the agreement then I would guess that the new investors would back out since ATA has put most all the eggs in that basket.

The hard work and sincere dedication of ATA's employees are the only thing that has carried ATA this far and I believe we are the only ones who will save ATA.

To answer the original question: The codeshare has not been renewed yet because it has not expired, I expect the agreement to be renewed in January 2006.

 

[canyonblue737]

Yes, you are right....they do take care of their employees...that's fine. I am sick of the "we are so great, we luv everybody" BULL$HIT! They love themselves and that is fine. That seems to be running rampant in this country these days. Self love. Fuk everybody else. Just admit it....stop putting on the kumbaya show. I can see right through it and with the latest SWA/ATA jokeshare so can many others.

Ok, off for some psych meds.....

See I actually know this psychotic but she is only nuts half the time.

That said I simply challenge you Capt. Megadeath to show any, any airline in this industry that bases strategic moves on the moral implications to a group of employees that are not their own, in particular the group of employees of an already troubled company? Is it lack of "LUV" or it simply business sense?

I do believe that SWA entered into this codeshare in the belief that if ATA gained traction (perhaps if oil had gone down or better deals were struck on the leases with Boeing) that they would have a strong codeshare partner and if ATA began to slide they would be well placed to gain market share in ATA cities and additional gates. Win-win ya know? Was SWA out day one to stick it to ATA? I don't think so, but they knew going in that their deal insured they couldn't lose either way and that is smart business.

Knowing as many ATA pilots as we do I was disappointed that more were not hired. Just like you I have been disappointed at the very low hire percentage at SWA overall for all interviewing pilots. But the results speak for themselves and the folks who do make it inside are by and large all class acts (obviously I am an exception, ha-ha). Once inside the walls I can assure you that SWA does "LUV" their own and take care of their own. That attitude is at their very core, and it is very real... it just doesn't and can't extend to the rest of the industry or our competitive strength will simply be usurped by a company willing to make the tough decisions to win.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

See I actually know this psychotic but she is only nuts half the time.

That said I simply challenge you Capt. Megadeath to show any, any airline in this industry that bases strategic moves on the moral implications to a group of employees that are not their own, in particular the group of employees of an already troubled company? Is it lack of "LUV" or it simply business sense?

I agree with much of what Canyonblue writes but I have trouble with the choice of words in bold. I think SWA acts morally towards other businesses and goes further, the extra mile, to help out their own. I think Canyon meant that.

I think Southwest is acting ethically and in line with what they have done in years past. I say this in regards to codeshare and new service. We all should know what Southwest is doing. They are buying 35 or so planes a year and adding service in either new or existing markets. If SWA doesn't Airtran, JetBlue, Frontier or others will. We have to be aware of this state of affairs.

Competition in this industry is a B#$^*. The oil shock this year is killing carriers that need a break. I don't think JetBlue, Airtran, Frontier, or Spirit would be giving ATA a break either. Airtran is also attacking ATA's service to MSP. They would have sooner if they were operating out of the gates Southwest managed to acquire.

I don't know what kind of hand shake deal was made or is rumored to exist. Is there one? A few folks that worked for ATA over the years saw the handwriting on the wall and walked over to the SWA side even before 9/11. Not all who tried were successful. It was probably easier to move over then too. I'm sorry about that. This deregulation and republican thing has made lottery winners out of some of us and hurt many others.

Everyday I pray ATA gets a break and stops the slide. Its about time.

 

[canyonblue737]

I agree with much of what Canyonblue writes but I have trouble with the choice of words in bold. I think SWA acts morally towards other businesses and goes further, the extra mile, to help out their own. I think Canyon meant that.

I think Southwest is acting ethically and in line with what they have done in years past. I say this in regards to codeshare and new service. We all should know what Southwest is doing. They are buying 35 or so planes a year and adding service in either new or existing markets. If SWA doesn't Airtran, JetBlue, Frontier or others will. We have to be aware of this state of affairs.

Competition in this industry is a B#$^*. The oil shock this year is killing carriers that need a break. I don't think JetBlue, Airtran, Frontier, or Spirit would be giving ATA a break either. Airtran is also attacking ATA's service to MSP. They would have sooner if they were operating out of the gates Southwest managed to acquire.

I don't know what kind of hand shake deal was made or is rumored to exist. Is there one? A few folks that worked for ATA over the years saw the handwriting on the wall and walked over to the SWA side even before 9/11. Not all who tried were successful. It was probably easier to move over then too. I'm sorry about that. This deregulation and republican thing has made lottery winners out of some of us and hurt many others.

Everyday I pray ATA gets a break and stops the slide. Its about time.

That is indeed what I was trying to get across.

 

[Jim Smyth]

I personally consider the ATA pilots, brothers and sisters! Out of all the pilot groups out there they are the closest to our own! Always have been, always will be IMO. I hope they are assemenated into the collective in the very near furture. I will be very dissapointed if they arnt!

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

I personally consider the ATA pilots, brothers and sisters! Out of all the pilot groups out there they are the closest to our own! Always have been, always will be IMO. I hope they are assemenated into the collective in the very near furture. I will be very dissapointed if they arnt!

A true class act. Thanks for the kind words sir.

 

[SWA/FO]

What about me?

By-the-way....that was/is CanyonBlue737 not the orginal CanyonBlue that we all have grown to love, over the years.

 

[Jetjockey]

I personally consider the ATA pilots, brothers and sisters! Out of all the pilot groups out there they are the closest to our own! Always have been, always will be IMO. I hope they are assemenated into the collective in the very near furture. I will be very dissapointed if they arnt!

I sure wish you were on the decision board Jim! Talk to those base CP for us.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Well said Special Ed....only a few posts so far but you sure make them count.

I think Capt. Mega works for UPS. Q = "What can Brown do for you?"
A = She can shut her mouth ASAP... thanks
(well, it was quite for awhile...oh well..)

Ha ha.....cute

You boys are awfully sensitive

 

[capt. megadeth]

Hey Mega,
It appears you missed the point of my post. Mostly, all I am seeing is a bitter jealous rant from another product of the "now" generation ... (you know the type, they put their kids into t-ball and soccer games that don't keep score.... don't want to traumatize little Billy with "losing"... everyone gets a trophy)
You know what was great about those times... I don't remember anyone running around with the "woe is me, the world owes me something" attitude thats all over the place today... especially in your posts.

Maybe I missed the point of your post. You definitely missed mine. Funny how we think we know someone by what they post on flight info. If you think that what you said above describes me.....YOU HAVE NO CLUE AS TO THE TYPE OF PERSON I AM. I am not jealous.....I have a good job. I actually care about OTHER people (which is more than I can say for probably 99%) and care that they got screwed. Buddy, I didn't get screwed (yet) so what am I supposedly jealous of????? I don't think the world owes me anything......you have no clue about what you are talking about.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey, why doesn't UPS have pref. interviews for ATA guys/girls... ?

 

[apdsm]

I actually care about OTHER people (which is more than I can say for probably 99%)

You really think you are in the minority when it comes to caring whether other people get screwed? I don't know who you hang out with, but 99.9% of the people I know/hang out with do not want to see anyone get screwed.

 

[Crucianpilot]

Continental has given pref interviews to ATA pilots and has hired quite a few of them.

 

[SWA/FO]

I didn't know that (about CAL)... I think its a good thing.

 

[ivauir]

Rafts fit in the overheads.

Other equipment can be stowed elsewhere.

Aren't the slides life rafts?

But I don't think we're after ETOPs.
I have hoped from the very beginning that ATA would morph into a exclusivly long haul/over water operation and pull out of routes that the SWA model serves better (more profitably). In the end it would be a win/win scenario with both airlines feeding each other's operation. It would give SWA the chance to get all of that connecting international traffic and ATA would have the most prolific domestic carrier feeding its routes.

Does anyone consider this a possibility? Or is it wishfull thinking? I do sincerely hope things pick up at ATA.

 

[HalinTexas]

I personally consider the ATA pilots, brothers and sisters! Out of all the pilot groups out there they are the closest to our own! Always have been, always will be IMO. I hope they are assemenated into the collective in the very near furture. I will be very dissapointed if they arnt!

Thanks Jim, it's appreciated.

The good news is that we have cash to carry us through Christmas, it appears.

http://docs.bmccorp.net/ATA/docs/insb_1-04-bk-19866_3138_1.pdf

This website contains lots of info on what's going on at ATA. Managment won't even tell us this stuff. Thanks Jeff T.

 

[HalinTexas]

Aren't the slides life rafts?

But I don't think we're after ETOPs.
I have hoped from the very beginning that ATA would morph into a exclusivly long haul/over water operation and pull out of routes that the SWA model serves better (more profitably). In the end it would be a win/win scenario with both airlines feeding each other's operation. It would give SWA the chance to get all of that connecting international traffic and ATA would have the most prolific domestic carrier feeding its routes.

Does anyone consider this a possibility? Or is it wishfull thinking? I do sincerely hope things pick up at ATA.

Those of this at ATA have thought this from the beginning. Have heard J. Denison has pushed it, but SWA managment has been reluctant. As a result we've dropped at least one key quasi-int'l market: SJU. We used to fly to full L1011's a day from MCO - SJU, and one full one from SJU - JFK, 362 seats each, during the summers just a few summers ago. That's a lot of Puerto Ricans for such a small island!

Granted, I know ATA management is stupendously inept, but we're stuck with them. Example: John Tague and other managment wanted to park the L10's years ago. To George's credit we kept them. They are saving our a$$ right now, but we only have 4 flying.

 

[HalinTexas]

Continental has given pref interviews to ATA pilots and has hired quite a few of them.

I don't believe this is continuing, but I think more furloughed ATA pilots went to CAL than SWA as a result of PI's.

Thanks to both. Brought an ATA furloughee/SWA FO home last night. Was out of work for about a week.