Asiana 777 crashed on landing at SFO

[Erndogg]

The ILS for both 28L/R have been notamed out with all the construction and realignment of the ILS signals and will not be up until late Aug. So you either have a LOC or a RNAV approach for the 28's
The LOC 28L can be challenging after MDA because of PAPI being inop also. Dont know if they were low throughout the approach but it would be easy to get TOO LOW on that transition to landing?? Just speculation having done those approaches at night with no vertical guidance after MDA?

 

[i fly boxes]

I feel bad for the crew no matter what the reason for this crash is. People lost their lives under their command even if it is only 3. They will be scrutinized and blamed by everyone before anyone knows what really happened. Then if it is pilot error, who knows what will happen to them. If we have a 777 problem then boeing has its hands full with the 787 and 777. Rip to those killed

 

[DC10]

Not sure how accurate this is but somebody on pprune has created a comparison of yesterday's Asiana flight into SFO and today's glidepaths. Today's doesn't look very stabilized. It's about two thirds of the way down the page if this link works -
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/518568-asiana-flight-crash-san-francisco-6.html

 

[i fly boxes]

The ILS for both 28L/R have been notamed out with all the construction and realignment of the ILS signals and will not be up until late Aug. So you either have a LOC or a RNAV approach for the 28's
The LOC 28L can be challenging after MDA because of PAPI being inop also. Dont know if they were low throughout the approach but it would be easy to get TOO LOW on that transition to landing?? Just speculation having done those approaches at night with no vertical guidance after MDA?

I normally would agree with you but as a professional pilot of a 777 you should be able to shoot a visual approach with nothing but your eyes. We don't know what happened, the background of the crew or if there was wake turbulence or some mechanical problem. Ill wait for the Ntsb to tell us

 

[Erndogg]

I normally would agree with you but as a professional pilot of a 777 you should be able to shoot a visual approach with nothing but your eyes. We don't know what happened, the background of the crew or if there was wake turbulence or some mechanical problem. Ill wait for the Ntsb to tell us

Yes just speculation having flown that approach numerous times with the PAPI inop. We will have to wait and see what the NTSB concludes.

 

[JCJ]

Can't help but think of the similarities here with the BA 777 at LHR. Landed short also, but after a longer flight and across the pole I believe. May have been different engines, but what about the fuel system?
Sad to think of the loss of life and injuries.
Two incidents with very similar outcomes would suggest that a very urgent and expedited investigation of the 777 is of utmost importance. Since the data should be readily available, hopefully this can be accomplished fairly quickly.



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I read somewhere on another board that the Speedbird had Rolls-Royce engines and Asiana has P & W, and the system component responsible for the LHR crash was Rolls-Royce specific. Although I'm sure that'll be one thing looked at in detail.

 

[i fly boxes]

After watching, I have to say I'm done with CNN. If they report information that I am familiar with so bad, what type of info am I getting from the stuff I don't know. It's almost like they will break a story and just make up something to get people hooked

 

[centralpilot]

After watching, I have to say I'm done with CNN. If they report information that I am familiar with so bad, what type of info am I getting from the stuff I don't know. It's almost like they will break a story and just make up something to get people hooked

It isn't almost; that is exactly what they do. They break a story based on one sentence from the AP wire, then wing it for hours filling airspace with ramblings, speculation, and opinions. This typically goes on for hours and when they do get a nugget of fact they misreport it half the time. 24 hour cable news networks have pretty much destroyed broadcast journalism.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Gotta love the AP
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25894511&ni...nd-outside-jet-&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-1
"San Francisco is one of several airports around the country that border bodies of water that have walls at the end of their runways to prevent planes that overrun a runway from ending up in the water."

 

[sitnresrv]

Just to clarify, I flew in there Friday evening and the PAPI was working on 28L. I saw no notam that said the PAPI was OTS for Saturday. I'm confident that it was up and working.

 

[wrxpilot]

After watching, I have to say I'm done with CNN. If they report information that I am familiar with so bad, what type of info am I getting from the stuff I don't know. It's almost like they will break a story and just make up something to get people hooked

I've often wondered this very thing.

 

[Tweaker]

After watching, I have to say I'm done with CNN. If they report information that I am familiar with so bad, what type of info am I getting from the stuff I don't know. It's almost like they will break a story and just make up something to get people hooked

I have come to the same conclusion years ago. I am quite familiar with aviation, firearms and automobiles. Each of these topics, when discussed by "experts" on the "news," is run thru with mis-statements, falsities, errors, ignorance and in many cases, politically motivated lies.

It would be foolish to assume that this is not the case when they cover topics I am less versed in. Today's TV and most newspaper "journalists" are, for the most part, sensationalistic, politically poisoned hacks. They demonstrate an apparent AVERSION to the fact, and truth. May they all choke on a bag of pickled penii.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I have come to the same conclusion years ago. I am quite familiar with aviation, firearms and automobiles. Each of these topics, when discussed by "experts" on the "news," is run thru with mis-statements, falsities, errors, ignorance and in many cases, politically motivated lies.

It would be foolish to assume that this is not the case when they cover topics I am less versed in. Today's TV and most newspaper "journalists" are, for the most part, sensationalistic, politically poisoned hacks. They demonstrate an apparent AVERSION to the fact, and truth. May they all choke on a bag of pickled penii.

They are wrong on MOST things but ESPECIALLY aviation and firearms.

Spot on Tweaker.



By the way, once upon a time, I was a television news distort....er, um, reporter and I recognized the ignorance and political motivations early on. SO glad I quit that stupid business so that I could have a career in THIS stupid business...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Can't help but think of the similarities here with the BA 777 at LHR. Landed short also, but after a longer flight and across the pole I believe. May have been different engines, but what about the fuel system?
Sad to think of the loss of life and injuries.
Two incidents with very similar outcomes would suggest that a very urgent and expedited investigation of the 777 is of utmost importance. Since the data should be readily available, hopefully this can be accomplished fairly quickly.



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I don't see any similarities here except the fact that there were two 777's involved. The time of the year is the key factor, in the BA accident, there were sigmets related to extreme low temperature of the air mass that they were flying through, this particular flight was not exposed anywhere near the low temperature that the BA flight was exposed that January day. The ice buildup in the BA crash happened at the oil/heat exchanger that was a unique design of the RR engines.

 

[SLUF4]

CNN's coverage yesterday was terrible! Where do they find these supposed "experts". And using the eyewitness statements as facts-"the aircraft cartwheeled down the runway several times!" wow.

 

[whymeworry?]

You mean "Richard Quest" isn't an expert? You could've have fooled me... what with his expert explanation of 3 degree glideslopes and all.


CNN, parrot journalism. All of them. Which is why I don't watch the news anymore. Run by complete idiots!

 

[Capn Butthead]

I think it's important to wait to see what the FDR has to say....but I think all of us can take things out of this.

I know we all Fly visual approaches every day but it seems more and more that companies are telling us to use automation! Don't fly it...the computer is better than you. I think that is a bad thing. I still hand fly a lot and I still fly visuals when I can raw data...unless I'm tired or my add has kicked in! I think we should all take the time to keep our skills sharp.

The other thing that got my skin crawling was at the 26minute mark on the tape...while the ga plane was talking...someone in a English voice yelled go around...probably the united 747 holding short. I can only imagine what was going through their thoughts...or the Skywest flight following the 777.

 

[shroomwell]

I know it is jumping to conclusions, but there is a lot of evidence suggesting that this crew was not well trained and able to adapt to the situation of a visual approach without GS, (read the pprune thread). Like it or not the Asian carriers have a history of only training there pilots to be computer operators, and there pilots have very little stick and rudder time.

That being said, my concern now is that we have SFO open again and heavy aircraft (many from Asian carriers), operating with only a 1R for takeoff, and 19L for landing. To me this could be a problem.

 

[NEDude]

I think it's important to wait to see what the FDR has to say....but I think all of us can take things out of this.

I know we all Fly visual approaches every day but it seems more and more that companies are telling us to use automation! Don't fly it...the computer is better than you. I think that is a bad thing. I still hand fly a lot and I still fly visuals when I can raw data...unless I'm tired or my add has kicked in! I think we should all take the time to keep our skills sharp.

The other thing that got my skin crawling was at the 26minute mark on the tape...while the ga plane was talking...someone in a English voice yelled go around...probably the united 747 holding short. I can only imagine what was going through their thoughts...or the Skywest flight following the 777.

Interestingly my company has taken a very different approach - we train hand flown, raw data, no auto thrust approaches regularly in the sim. Hand flown approaches are required while on IOE and encouraged in normal line operations.

 

[sstearns2]

You mean "Richard Quest" isn't an expert? You could've have fooled me... what with his expert explanation of 3 degree glideslopes and all.


CNN, parrot journalism. All of them. Which is why I don't watch the news anymore. Run by complete idiots!

Actually I would say that the networks are run by very smart people. The issue is that their intent is not to be accurate or informative. Their goal is to get the audience to watch the advertisements.

Scott

 

[sstearns2]

I know it is jumping to conclusions, but there is a lot of evidence suggesting that this crew was not well trained and able to adapt to the situation of a visual approach without GS, (read the pprune thread). Like it or not the Asian carriers have a history of only training there pilots to be computer operators, and there pilots have very little stick and rudder time.

That being said, my concern now is that we have SFO open again and heavy aircraft (many from Asian carriers), operating with only a 1R for takeoff, and 19L for landing. To me this could be a problem.

It is not just the Asian carriers...

Scott

 

[acaTerry]

Ah, the dreaded hand-flown visual approach in a blistering 7 knot quartering headwind in daylight conditions with no ceiling....could have gotten any of us...there but for the grace of god....

The finger pointing. The blame. The "I can't believe what an idiot..." It all needs to stop. One of the greatest things Jesus ever said was "Let he among you without sin cast the first stone". I can't believe how many go ahead and throw them. I'm sure I speak for many of you besides myself when I say the only reason we have not had an accident ourselves is because we knew what not to do because someone ahead of us learned the hard way.
I notice that accidents tend to come in 3's. So before anyone starts acting like Superpilot, look out or YOU may be number 2 or 3.

 

[Tweaker]

Actually I would say that the networks are run by very smart people. The issue is that their intent is not to be accurate or informative. Their goal is to get the audience to watch the advertisements.

Scott

That is one of their goals. Propaganda, disinformation and controlling public opinion are higher goals.

Why do you think it is that most newspapers lose so much money? If ad revenue was job 1 this would not happen.

 

[Furloughed80]

Video of crash

 

[airplane wizard]

Crashed because they didn't file a flight plan??

 

[100-1/2]

Wake Turbulence from ANA8 777-800?
Landed just before Asiana.
Passengers described shaking on final.
Impact (tail first) on Sea wall right of centerline
And length of debris field and travel indicate
Significant forward velocity.
Without GS/PAPI, ANA8 could have had a high
Descent path while Asiana had a lower glide path
And encountered ANA8's wake?

After six pages, extremely disappointed no one
Else has suggested this.

100-1/2

 

[Fliteidol]

Wake Turbulence from ANA8 777-800?
Landed just before Asiana.
Passengers described shaking on final.
Impact (tail first) on Sea wall right of centerline
And length of debris field and travel indicate
Significant forward velocity.
Without GS/PAPI, ANA8 could have had a high
Descent path while Asiana had a lower glide path
And encountered ANA8's wake?

After six pages, extremely disappointed no one
Else has suggested this.

100-1/2

Extremely disappointed that you think there is a 777-800.

 

[100-1/2]

What is a 77W?

 

[t-bone]

From the NTSB briefing just help, data pulled from the CVR and FDR show they were "significantly" below target speed of 137 knots, there was no call regarding low airspeed until 7 seconds prior to impact, they got the stick shaker 4 seconds prior, and go-around was called 1.5 seconds prior to impact. FDR shows engines responded normally.

 

[100-1/2]

-300? But hey, why I love this board soooooo much. Someone makes sense with a logical suggestion and like clockwork, there you are.

100-1/2