Asiana 777 crashed on landing at SFO

[Shrek]

Or the CPT with less than 50 hours in type is trying to "save face".

 

[Old School 737]

Look for big changes on how IOE is done.

Like if its done properly its not a problem at all...?? ?

 

[lowtimedriver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

lol, I initially heard that Tu Low and Tu Slow were flying the airplane. Tu High was scheduled to be on the flight, but was removed at the last minute to avoid CRM issues.

 

[scoreboardII]

Look for big changes on how IOE is done.

Yep, they are going to shine a light in your face on short final. Sort of like the FAA examiner pulling out the shotgun during a V1 cut with Santa.

 

[clueless]

Where else to come to for otherwise meaningless speculation than FI:

How would the Asiana accident be different, and would it have been more or less severe, if instead of hitting the seawall at SFO they had been landing at a more typical airport with a large, flat expanse of land surrounding the runway, covered with the usual mix of pavement and grass?

They touch down on the mains, short of the runway and off-center, maybe a tail strike due to the high pitch angle, perhaps a bounce followed by collapsed nose gear.....

Pure speculation, as I said, but which scenario has the makings of a worse outcome?

 

[densoo]

Look for big changes on how IOE is done.

if its done properly its not a problem at all...?? ?

Due to inattention perhaps from fatigue and training deficiencies in one crew at one airline on one flight, we now have a completely new rest reg and vastly higher entry level requirements for this job. Both are major generational changes in regulations. Not that that's a bad thing, but the FAA doesn't act, it reacts to accidents. I think there will be some major changes in how we get from the right to the left seat.

 

[humveedriver]

Due to inattention perhaps from fatigue and training deficiencies in one crew at one airline on one flight, we now have a completely new rest reg and vastly higher entry level requirements for this job. Both are major generational changes in regulations. Not that that's a bad thing, but the FAA doesn't act, it reacts to accidents. I think there will be some major changes in how we get from the right to the left seat.

Or maybe the changes won't be for US crews. I'm familiar with shotgun style reactions. But if this crew had crashed like this flying into a non-us airport, would anyone in the US care from a regulatory standpoint? Why change regulations in the US because the ones in Korea aren't very good?

 

[pilotyip]

Due to inattention perhaps from fatigue and training deficiencies in one crew at one airline on one flight, we now have a completely new rest reg and vastly higher entry level requirements for this job. Both are major generational changes in regulations. Not that that's a bad thing, but the FAA doesn't act, it reacts to accidents. I think there will be some major changes in how we get from the right to the left seat.

Egads! Talk about changes
We just got an AC from the Feds. Basically says after 7-31-14, you can only get an ATP for 121 ops at a 121 air carrier, and that you must have 30 hours of FAA approved ground school at a 121 air carrier and 10 hours of flight time in a level "C" or "D" sim with a GTOW greater than 40,000#'s in order to have permission to take the ATP written. It is a new AC and this is an initial reaction to what I read today
AC 61-138 - Airline Transport Pilot Certification Training Program

 

[scoreboardII]

Where else to come to for otherwise meaningless speculation than FI:

How would the Asiana accident be different, and would it have been more or less severe, if instead of hitting the seawall at SFO they had been landing at a more typical airport with a large, flat expanse of land surrounding the runway, covered with the usual mix of pavement and grass?

They touch down on the mains, short of the runway and off-center, maybe a tail strike due to the high pitch angle, perhaps a bounce followed by collapsed nose gear.....

Pure speculation, as I said, but which scenario has the makings of a worse outcome?

or just as likely, they hit that wall twenty feet lower and kill everyone. Woulda coulda shoulda all day long, but if this guys first thought is I had a light in my eye, ******************** him.

 

[densoo]

Why change regulations in the US because the ones in Korea aren't very good?

From what's leaked out it seems our IOE programs are very similar.

 

[UnableDirect]

Wrecked up like a duschion, like a stranger in the night.

wow. I never knew the real lyrics til now!!!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Actually, the lyric is "Blinded by the light, revved up like a deuce, another roller in the night..."

Jussssssss sayin

 

[macdu]

I would love to see a archaeological forum thread topic study done that would measure at least two things.
1. How many entries before the thread goes off topic.

2. What that topic is, ie.......crash to music lyrics.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I would love to see a archaeological forum thread topic study done that would measure at least two things.
1. How many entries before the thread goes off topic.

2. What that topic is, ie.......crash to music lyrics.

It's what we do.

But this one went deeper than most.

 

[Andy]

Actually, the lyric is "Blinded by the light, revved up like a deuce, another roller in the night..."

Jussssssss sayin

Not roller, runner. Another runner in the night.

I would love to see a archaeological forum thread topic study done that would measure at least two things.
1. How many entries before the thread goes off topic.

2. What that topic is, ie.......crash to music lyrics.

For number 2, here are seven plane crash songs: http://listsof.wordpress.com/2011/12/07/7-songs-for-plane-crashes/

I'm disappointed that 'American Pie' didn't make the list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Music_Died

 

[100-1/2]

Since we are 'there'...
What exactly are the lyrics:
Corey Heart - I Wear My Sunglasses at Night?

Does anyone find it strange this aircraft is reported to
have hit the sea wall at 103KIAS but had enough velocity
to travel almost 2500' and appears to have become airborne
again by video shot by witnesses?

Would not flying into down drafts of significant wake turbulence
cause erroneous readings on FDR because of a significant change
in relative wind and velocity? but the forward travel of 160k GS
remain largely unchanged? once clear of the turbulence (after
impact) result in the lifting we see in the witness video of the crash?

100-1/2

 

[tankerhead]

Keep drinking and call in sick.

 

[G4dude]

My little corner of the aviation world offers a bit more operational flexibility than many airlines. Even though we have the largest fleet in the corporate/fractional world, for the most part our management doesn't legislate technique (so far, thankfully). That is a luxury many airline pilots do not have.

That means a lot more hand flying (the FUN part of this job) and the right to ignore the magic box, the x-ray vision HUD/EVS, and the other Captain Billy Whizbang gadgetry if it doesn't make sense at the time.

Our greatest challenge is being prepared for 7000 different airports from Aspen to Aruba to Angor Wat. That is also our greatest blessing because it helps prevent the inevitable complacency that can creep into some cockpits.

I do worry about some of the international products of ab initio programs and a single-minded focus on nothing but SOPs, airline operations, and slavish devotion to the magenta line.

Combine that style of training with a steep authority gradient of some foreign cultures and relative lack of "out there on your own in the sky" experience and it becomes apparent how something like this could happen.

Worse yet, there is no easy solution.

The prospect of the aviation world attempting to overcome the shortcomings of Asian culture is a fascinating thing to contemplate. I believe the only efficacious solution is for insurance companies to refuse to do business with carriers who don't toe the line, including having at least one Western pilot in the cockpit at all times. No politics, just hard business decisions making the operation safe.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

including having at least one Western pilot in the cockpit at all times. No politics, just hard business decisions making the operation safe.

Because we all know that western pilots don't crash airplanes!

 

[CaptSeth]

Because we all know that western pilots don't crash airplanes!

The footprint of this accident is familiar to anyone that has experienced the endemic CRM and technical skills issues found in certain Asian carriers, most notably in Korea. We all know when and why Western pilots and instructors were recruited to try and right the sinking KAL ship. This accident has all of the hallmarks of a system that has not yet been corrected.

And I'm not saying everything is just dandy everywhere else, the Colgan crash demonstrated that amply.