Asa/xjt<---------

[Nevets]

Man I can't stand stupidity. Where in the hell did you get replacing 3 200s with 700/900 equals one less 200 needed? I clearly stated on a one for one basis. If XJT has 200 E145s outsourced by CAL that is 200 planes worth of flying that is gone and not coming back. Let management use whatever size(51-76) regional aircraft they want on those 200 planes and let mainline pilots take a pay increase for increasing regional revenue. Before you know it profits will be up and the widebody orders will start rolling in.

But if you guys want to keep being short sighted and fighting over mainline pilots flying to College Station and not focusing on increasing routes to Dubai, Shanghai and other places where the yield is high enough to pay the pilot very well, so be it.
Is Lee Monk truly the only one around here that has some sense?

Why can't you have all this branded flying done by pilots on the mainline seniority list with current work rules and compensation that exist at the regionals?

 

[Medeco]

Back to the OP please! Argue about scope and such somewhere else. Thanks!

ASA will HIRE 1000, yes 1,000 pilots by the end of 2012.

Not that far fetched.

 

[johnpeace]

There are a few factors at play here:
- commercial pilot candidates/certificate issuance at record lows
- large scale attrition from the tops of the largest airline's seniority lists
- higher experience requirements for new regional airline pilots
- tighter rest rules requiring higher staffing levels at the airlines

These are probably going to work together to change the landscape for regional airlines and their pilots. They are soon going to be unable to hire enough to keep up with attrition, there simply aren't enough candidates of ANY experience level. A qualified pilot is going to soon be the most valuable commodity a regional airline retains.

It will be interesting to see where it all winds up, but my intuition is telling me that these factors are going to produce a reality that is better for all of us.

 

[777forever]

Why can't you have all this branded flying done by pilots on the mainline seniority list with current work rules and compensation that exist at the regionals?

Because management would first have to allow all the regional contracts to expire(at least 10 years). Massive amount of hiring for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics etc etc would then have to take place sometime within that time period. Mainline would have to purchase 100s of RJs. This would all come to a tremendous cost to management. If management even considered this, pilots would lose a tremendous amount of leverage. They'd be looking at a pay freeze(if not pay cut) for at least 10 years to make up the tremendous cost. All this cost will have absolutely no benefit to anyone but the pilots.

Return of all scope to mainline is one of management's "religious issues", meaning they will let the pilot strike to their heart's content and not budge until they come to the table and put a realistic proposal on the table.

 

[CX880]

You want analytical ok. For every (3) 200 you replace with 700/900s you really do away with the need for one more 200. That’s around 6 pilot jobs that could have been created but instead those people will be on the streets.
Isn’t it ironic that your screen name is 777forever when everything that you propose is for stagnation. It’s also ironic how many people like you change your opinion once they finally do get a job at the majors. Do you really think that you will say, “they are just thinking analytically”, if you were junior at the majors and they gave us scope for the C-Series. Then you, just like many thousand before would be on the street begging for your CRJ200 FO spot back.
I propose that 777forever should have to change his name to CRJ200FOforever. Lets put it to a vote… All in favor say aye.

aye. It's obvious he has no idea what he's talking about. It's true that it's a lost cause because the contracts are set in stone but it's the principle that matters. More 777s and less CRJ7s and 9s I say. Our job is not to make management prosperous, our job is to fly a plane and get paid for it righteously.

 

[JumpersAway]

Why can't you have all this branded flying done by pilots on the mainline seniority list with current work rules and compensation that exist at the regionals?

Because no matter how you package it up, our bretheren at the major airlines will ALWAYS look down upon the regional pilots as underqualified. They want to retain the interview process to "weed out the bad apples". This will NEVER happen. However, they would gladly arrange a flow down-errrr.......I mean flow agreement with you. How many airlines have tried this and failed. I think ExpressJet has unique experience with this. Correct?

Also, who is going to burn negotiating capital on this? The pilots at the majors don't want to bargain for YOUR job- they simply don't care.

Right now, the faulted logic is that if the regionals negotiate higher pay, the aircraft (70) seaters will flow back to mainline. This scenario couldn't be farther from the truth and reality. As regionals up the pay and the aircraft become more expensive to opperate at the regional level, other regionals are created to fill in the regional feed at a lower operating cost. Look at Compass, GoJet, and Mid Atlantic. These are perfect examples of airlines that were created to "fit the need for cheeper feed".

As much as people disagree and can't stand JoeMerchant, he his right in saying "Brand Scope" is the only true way to halt the "whipsaw".

 

[nimtz]

Man I can't stand stupidity. Where in the hell did you get replacing 3 200s with 700/900 equals one less 200 needed? I clearly stated on a one for one basis. If XJT has 200 E145s outsourced by CAL that is 200 planes worth of flying that is gone and not coming back. Let management use whatever size(51-76) regional aircraft they want on those 200 planes and let mainline pilots take a pay increase for increasing regional revenue. Before you know it profits will be up and the widebody orders will start rolling in.

But if you guys want to keep being short sighted and fighting over mainline pilots flying to College Station and not focusing on increasing routes to Dubai, Shanghai and other places where the yield is high enough to pay the pilot very well, so be it.
Is Lee Monk truly the only one around here that has some sense?

Ask the UAL guys how well it worked allowing RJ's in based on management's promise of more 777's back in the late 90's.

 

[777forever]

Ask the UAL guys how well it worked allowing RJ's in based on management's promise of more 777's back in the late 90's.

1st off, UAL has more 777s and 747s than any other Legacy.2nd, United got an absolutely wonderful pilot contract shortly after that. Than a little thing called 9-11 happened iI would think(sarcasm) hurt United's ability to order widebody aircraft.

 

[Medeco]

You guys dont read very well...

 

[nimtz]

1st off, UAL has more 777s and 747s than any other Legacy.2nd, United got an absolutely wonderful pilot contract shortly after that. Than a little thing called 9-11 happened iI would think(sarcasm) hurt United's ability to order widebody aircraft.

So that makes your argument right? I'm terribly sorry that the vast majority of line pilots continue to find your 'Lee Moak Theory' to be completely bunk. If management wants to fly longhauls they will buy the airplanes. Bending over on scope will not quicken that process...