ASA proposed pay scale!!!

[ohplease!]

Oh and take Avoiceofreason with you!

and give up the great schedule and QOL I've got? don't think so. You can leave if you like though.

 

[cmrflyer]

Why would SkyWest burn $400 million in aquisition costs and then want you to go away? That makes no sense. They just want you to be their Low Cost Biatch. Welcome to the new industry. EVERYONE will get a pay cut.


Bye Bye--General Lee

For the same reason Delta bought Comair for $2billion, and now scew us into the ground, because the can, and ALPA (spit on the ground) just lets it happen.
Did you read that crap the dwane put in the alpa mag, "comair must stand up to the pay to play" bullsh!t. He invented it, he is the one who signs off on every alpa contract, he is the one who signed off on mesa's contract. Now it is up to comair to take another stand to try to fix the mess that mainline and alpa make. You idiots are just as dangerous as mgt.

 

[Texx]

yeah, just like Kim. She's done a good job if you ask me.

What would you do if you ran out of clean cloths on a trip? Wear dirty ones? I'd wash them somewhere, and have more than once, even if it was in the sink.

Well no one asked you but as you usually do you've opened your mouth.

And I bet you carry your spare pair of underwear in your flight bag or your mom brings them to you.

 

[ohplease!]

Well no one asked you but as you usually do you've opened your mouth.

And I bet you carry your spare pair of underwear in your flight bag or your mom brings them to you.

nah man, I go commando. saves on laundry.

I didn't see where anyone asked for your opinion either so i guess we're even.

Still waiting to buy you a coffee or something someday.......

 

[Palerider957]

Gentleman,

I left ASA (and aviation) because I simply couldn't stand this labor/mgmt bull$hit.

I think every pilot needs to put a dollar value and minimum QOL for which they are willing to work. If mgmnt meets that, great. If not, then as an individual (in my case) or as a group, you need to walk.

You have been toyed with, blamed, stolen from, lied to, told yes/no in the same sentence. ASA management has struggled in every sense to run this airline, it's no wonder they are desperate for a scapegoat--guess what, you are it.

From a former ASA (ultra-militant) pilot, who now has MUCH lower blood pressure, and misc. malaise, I am here to tell you there ARE greener pastures. There ARE options for livelihood outside of ASA and aviation.

If you fight for a good contract, only to have flying and/or airplanes transferred to Mesa/CHQ/ whoever, so be it.

In the end concessions didn't work with Hitler, they won't work with ASA.....get what you derserve.

 

[goodto50meters]

I'll take Dillon, Hall, and Tutt over Danny, Nelson and Bubba anyday. I guess if you don't automatically believe everthing the union says, you must be management.

Tell you what, I'll take George and John over any of these.

They were assholes but knew how to make money. They were assholes but didnt lie to your face. They would just say tell you to blow. They eventually caved under pressure both from the pilots....Contract '98 and then from Delta....crap performance, either let us buy you or your out and destitute. George and John chose to become richer and sold out to delta...wise choice.

PS the crap performance was due to similar management philosophies that exist today...and alot of the same people too.

If I put all of the information though a fact and common sense analyzer, it does not take a rocket scientist...maybe a Wendy's counter person...to figger out that generally what ASA ALPA is putting out is in my interest and passes the smell test, what LiarBreque is putting out is sheer ass-excretions.

'roadmap' Geeezuz!

 

[goodto50meters]

I had a union rep. tell me last week that we weren't asking for much. Now I hear we still have our opener for payrates on the table - a 19% pay raise and the highest amongst DCI carriers. I don't believe either side anymore.

Are you only paying attention to managements shrill caterwalling? It seems so. The original ALPA proposal has been in their hands for almost a year.

Ah screw this......How much do you think is reasonable Mr 'Voice of Reason'?

PS...Save the were all going bankrupt routine. WE are not. So i am not going to behave like we are or accept a BS agreement that acknowleges a non-reality.

 

[av8er2]

I sure would hate to lose a flying job but if it means working for nothing I choose to move on. ASA pilots are some of the best, just look at our safety record and if mgt. and the public can't respect that and pay use enough to live on, then the heck with this.

I will just move on! It is hard enough to go to work not being appricated now, I can't imagin what it would feel like with pay cuts. Get real, most of use are willing to move on and do something else.

This would of been harder to take a few years ago, but we have had enough time to think about this. If you don't appricate our skills and don't want to pay for them then get some other unsafe, no-experience pilot to do this job. When ASA's safety record goes down the toilet, they will think twice.

 

[goodto50meters]

yeah, just like Kim. She's done a good job if you ask me. Much better than many of the previous CP's we've had. I have no doubt that situation was taken completly our of context. But taking things out of context is the only way for guy's like you to make the situations fit your conspiracy theories.

what would you do if you ran out of clean cloths on a trip? Wear dirty ones? I'd wash them somewhere, and have more than once, even if it was in the sink. Most places we stay overnight have guest laundry or theres a laundry nearby.

Ok, if you are actually going to defend her in this dispicable episode, you have something in it for you. You are either Kim or another above her that took heat for this and want it to go away into spin land.

This pilot learned the hard way that:
1. You cant depend on your fellow employees in other departments to do their job and follow proceedure...they lost his bag.
2. You cant depend on your 'supervision' to help you...find your bag.

You CAN depend on this management to:

1. Do absolutely nothing to help you if they have a convenient thing in mind like "wash your underwear out in the sink and dont make this flight late"...competion factor and on-time and all that...
2. Blame you and discipine you and financially penalize YOU because someone else lost YOUR bag.

Gold Star operation set for success if you ask me.

Go back to the GO

 

[av8er2]

Ok, if you are actually going to defend her in this dispicable episode, you have something in it for you. You are either Kim or another above her that took heat for this and want it to go away into spin land.

This pilot learned the hard way that:
1. You cant depend on your fellow employees in other departments to do their job and follow proceedure...they lost his bag.
2. You cant depend on your 'supervision' to help you...find your bag.

You CAN depend on this management to:

1. Do absolutely nothing to help you if they have a convenient thing in mind like "wash your underwear out in the sink and dont make this flight late"...competion factor and on-time and all that...
2. Blame you and discipine you and financially penalize YOU because someone else lost YOUR bag.

Gold Star operation set for success if you ask me.

Go back to the GO

Common sense! Your right this is probably Kim.

 

[MajorAv8r]

Why would SkyWest burn $400 million in aquisition costs and then want you to go away? That makes no sense. They just want you to be their Low Cost Biatch. Welcome to the new industry. EVERYONE will get a pay cut.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Or, were the secured gates in Atl, the exclusivity (sp) agreements and future, and agreed to, 70 seaters worth $400 million?

 

[Palerider957]

I sure would hate to lose a flying job but if it means working for nothing I choose to move on. ASA pilots are some of the best, just look at our safety record and if mgt. and the public can't respect that and pay use enough to live on, then the heck with this.

I will just move on! It is hard enough to go to work not being appricated now, I can't imagin what it would feel like with pay cuts. Get real, most of use are willing to move on and do something else.

This would of been harder to take a few years ago, but we have had enough time to think about this. If you don't appricate our skills and don't want to pay for them then get some other unsafe, no-experience pilot to do this job. When ASA's safety record goes down the toilet, they will think twice.

Safety is not really an issue, I hate to say. Look at the sh1t bird airlines like Mesa. They have a good safety record, and to the traveling public, their flights are smooth and often on-time.

RJ's are NOT falling out of the sky, so there is no reason hire pilots with more than 600/200 (yes, this is a strain on the Captains, but still planes are not crashing left and right). This is the same reason we can't get the FAA to seriously review crew rest requirements. Yes, we have all flown EXHAUSTED, but the RJ is easy to fly and somehow we operated the flight safely. As long as it's not an issue, it won't be addressed.

Don't think management will respect your "skills," because they believe (somewhat accurately) that they can get those same skills for much cheaper. Your only real power is that your hands are ON the company right now.

 

[Texx]

Safety is not really an issue, I hate to say. Look at the sh1t bird airlines like Mesa. They have a good safety record, and to the traveling public, their flights are smooth and often on-time.

RJ's are NOT falling out of the sky, so there is no reason hire pilots with more than 600/200 (yes, this is a strain on the Captains, but still planes are not crashing left and right). This is the same reason we can't get the FAA to seriously review crew rest requirements. Yes, we have all flown EXHAUSTED, but the RJ is easy to fly and somehow we operated the flight safely. As long as it's not an issue, it won't be addressed.

You must not of been here the last time. Safety is an issue. Just ask George and John when they tried to get the pilots in trouble with the FAA for all the MTC write ups. The Feds told them because of this they were not going to do anything. The pilots were doing their jobs. You get paid to do your job, not everyone elses.

 

[Huck]

Ditto. The ONLY reason we got a contract in '98 was that maintenance got so bad, the FAA stepped in and forced a contract settlement to try and settle everything down.

There were a couple of maintenance incidents that could have killed people, but the pilots got the planes back on the ground and/or spotted it before takeoff. One old Eastern guy went over to the POI and told him it was more dangerous than the latter days of EAL. That's what got the ball rolling.

ASA has the best dam' pilots in the business, and the safety record to prove it. God bless you guys. Let me know when to show up to picket.

 

[Crash Pad]

Talked to my buddy at CHQ the other day. Happy as a clam. Upgraded on the E170 in a year and a half. Making more than anyone at ASA who has been here for 3+ years. (I don't think we have captains under that)...
My point is this. The only people talking about bottomfeeders and making a stand are us. Check the board I see ASA on here daily but hardly ever see MESA or CHQ etc. So make your stand. They will take your flying and be happy with it. While your job hunting they'll be getting better lines.

 

[Crash Pad]

ASA has the best dam' pilots in the business, and the safety record to prove it. God bless you guys. Let me know when to show up to picket.

Ok stop with this garbage. Other than PNCL making a smoking hole for no reason who are the bad pilots in the industry.
Seems like every other week we hit a taxi light at BTR. I know it's a little thing but the "best dam' pilots in the business" don't make mental errors on taxi in.

 

[Palerider957]

I remember the write-ups, but you must remember ASA was primarily Brasilisa's back then. There wasn't a single day you couldn't find a hundred things wrong with the E-120. It's not AS easy in the RJ.

Don't get me wrong, if I were still there, I'd be writing up inop tray tables at outstations. If your FA O2 tank magically shows slightly low (at an outstation) odds are you'll have to ferry the plane back to ATL/SLC. This is what I meant by "having your hands on the company."

Don't delude yourself into thinking your skills are invaluable, they simply arean't. If anything people who are so highly specialized have limited choices of jobs. This is why I advocate diversifying your skills, so as to make leaving the airlines a viable option if it all becomes too much.

Having said all that, I'm rooting for the ASA pilots to get the solid contract they deserve.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA's pay rate proposal is not high. Just inflation would account for around 12 to 18% depending on who you believe. My accountant said the number is running around 4% yearly. Management's offer, using their own graph, is lower than the market and you did not see the graph for the 200, which would show our rates are below market.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Seems like every other week we hit a taxi light at BTR. I know it's a little thing but the "best dam' pilots in the business" don't make mental errors on taxi in.

Delta did us one better in BTR. They got a 767-300 off in the mud in broad daylight, I believe on both sides of J near B, on Christmas while doing a charter for LSU. Then there have been several F18's go for rides through the weeds. I don't know what it is about that airport, but it is a little place to try to get a 767-300 around on. I feel really sorry for those guys.... unless they green slipped the trip while their buddies are on furlough.

If had been ASA, the safety department would have alleged that they backed in at 180% torque, then continued, after landing without a clearance, with an MP3 player and DVD Display showing Rocky VII. The training department would be preparing slides for publication. At Delta they are much more discreet and professional.

 

[Huck]

Ok stop with this garbage. Other than PNCL making a smoking hole for no reason who are the bad pilots in the industry.
Seems like every other week we hit a taxi light at BTR. I know it's a little thing but the "best dam' pilots in the business" don't make mental errors on taxi in.

TELL me you guys aren't talking like this in front of management - not during negotiations.

Oh wait you just did....

It's your contract, not mine, but I do believe that if you can't even convince yourself of your own worth then you're pretty much done with negotiations - no?

Or maybe I'm troll-bait.

 

[HoserASA]

Ok stop with this garbage. Other than PNCL making a smoking hole for no reason who are the bad pilots in the industry.
Seems like every other week we hit a taxi light at BTR. I know it's a little thing but the "best dam' pilots in the business" don't make mental errors on taxi in.

Oh c'mon Crashpad (aka as Dillion?). BTR taxi layout is a big contributing factor here as other airlines have also taxied off into the grass. Really no excuse for running off into the grass, but at least acknowledge that BTR airport bears some responsibility here as well. See ya Wed Bob!

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

TELL me you guys aren't talking like this in front of management - not during negotiations.

Huck: That's just management (aka Hall,Dillion,who knows who else) making those posts. Trying to scare some of our pilots out there. Believe me, the majority of ASA pilots can see through these posts.

I mean, c'mon, who else would defend CP Kim telling a pilot to just wash his skivies out in the hotel sink with System CP Hall backing her up by suspending the guy for a week. But thanks to our MEC Chair, BA, the pilot in question was made whole again with VP Tutt's help.

Hoser

 

[jetfo]

Why would SkyWest burn $400 million in aquisition costs and then want you to go away? That makes no sense. They just want you to be their Low Cost Biatch. Welcome to the new industry. EVERYONE will get a pay cut.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I doubt SKW wants the ASA pilots or the airline. They bought and are only interested in the flying and possibly the aircraft.

Same as Republic buying MidAtlantic, only with a different twist.

 

[Crash Pad]

Not management. I'm a very pesimistic pilot. I think ALPA is not only stupid (putting that billboard in front of the airport) but also incompetent (see flightinfo.com for the last couple years).
The only reason I like management is because they are easy to figure out. They are trying to make money for the shareholders. I know that if we get too much of a raise we will see our flying go away. Maybe not today or tomorrow but it will go. I know that at DAL, United, CAL, etc... they sit in a meating and say lets fly from point A to point B... they then walk over to the regional store and select the cheapest option off the shelf. I'm not saying be the cheapest but you don't want to be anywhere near top end.
Management has acted the consistently for years. I like predictable easy to understand things.
Scheduling same thing. Easy to understand. I need a flight filled. How can I fill it with the least amount of work. Understand that. You will soon understand how to improve your QOL.
ALPA impossible to understand. Make a pilot like an electrician. I call a teamsters electrician I'm going to get charged a rate. Bing end of discussion. ALPA has allowed companies to use pilots as a competative advantage.
Tell me why do you all take ALPA propaganda at face value. ALPA has been full of sh!t for years. Running around the crew room screaming management this and that. Hey ALPA got a plan? How about you send me another mailing. Put up a billboard... Or how about this stop signing contracts like the one at Mesa. Find out what an RJ pilot is worth. Your a Union find an accountant and come up with a number. Make that the universal RJ wage. I know it won't be Horizon but it won't be Mesa either. Then let the companies sort it out.

 

[Puck Mugger]

Not management. I'm a very pesimistic pilot. I think ALPA is not only stupid (putting that billboard in front of the airport) but also incompetent (see flightinfo.com for the last couple years).
The only reason I like management is because they are easy to figure out. They are trying to make money for the shareholders. I know that if we get too much of a raise we will see our flying go away. Maybe not today or tomorrow but it will go. I know that at DAL, United, CAL, etc... they sit in a meating and say lets fly from point A to point B... they then walk over to the regional store and select the cheapest option off the shelf. I'm not saying be the cheapest but you don't want to be anywhere near top end.
Management has acted the consistently for years. I like predictable easy to understand things.
Scheduling same thing. Easy to understand. I need a flight filled. How can I fill it with the least amount of work. Understand that. You will soon understand how to improve your QOL.
ALPA impossible to understand. Make a pilot like an electrician. I call a teamsters electrician I'm going to get charged a rate. Bing end of discussion. ALPA has allowed companies to use pilots as a competative advantage.
Tell me why do you all take ALPA propaganda at face value. ALPA has been full of sh!t for years. Running around the crew room screaming management this and that. Hey ALPA got a plan? How about you send me another mailing. Put up a billboard... Or how about this stop signing contracts like the one at Mesa. Find out what an RJ pilot is worth. Your a Union find an accountant and come up with a number. Make that the universal RJ wage. I know it won't be Horizon but it won't be Mesa either. Then let the companies sort it out.

Another management shill. Get back to work. There is work to be done at the GO.

 

[Huck]

I'll quit in a minute, but let me just say I think the world of BA. I flew with him a bunch back when we had BAe-146's. An excellent captain and one of the funniest people I've met.

When DAL pulled out of Chatanooga (as well as other places) and replaced MD80s with -146s, the city just came unglued, with editorials and letters to the editor trashing us daily in the paper. One paper editor took it as a personal mission to rile up the citizenry against us, and hostility was in the air anytime we boarded a full CHA flight (Capt. 'Beyull' J. was once chased down concourse T by a mob after he cancelled a CHA departure for weather).

I was taxiing out one morning at CHA with BA, 88 people griping back there and being mean to the FA, when we got a ground hold.

BA's eyes lit up and he grabbed the mike. "Let me do the PA!" He proceeded to tell the pax that we were being delayed because Atlanta liked to meter the flow of traffic from "little bitty towns" into the big city. He put down the mike and we laughed for 5 minutes.

Oh and a few months later they switched CHA to an ATR....

 

[Texx]

Talked to my buddy at CHQ the other day. Happy as a clam. Upgraded on the E170 in a year and a half. Making more than anyone at ASA who has been here for 3+ years. (I don't think we have captains under that)...
My point is this. The only people talking about bottomfeeders and making a stand are us. Check the board I see ASA on here daily but hardly ever see MESA or CHQ etc. So make your stand. They will take your flying and be happy with it. While your job hunting they'll be getting better lines.

A CHQ pilot making more than an ASA pilot and we have to worry about loosing flying. HAHAHAHAHAHA

CMR was in that position and that is now changing.

Remember, it's easy to get to the top. The hard part is remaining there.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

I believe strongly that this pilot group has no intention of joining the race to the bottom!

 

[jehtplane]

Ok stop with this garbage. Other than PNCL making a smoking hole for no reason who are the bad pilots in the industry.
Seems like every other week we hit a taxi light at BTR. I know it's a little thing but the "best dam' pilots in the business" don't make mental errors on taxi in.

deleted, already mentioned

 

[surplus1]

If ASA can get a release and if you have the actual unity and courage to walk out and stick to your guns, in less than 60 days you'll have Skywest making a reasonable proposal or looking at Chapter 11. Maybe that's what they need.