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ASA Pilots: Time to Consider PBS?

777forever

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As we all know ASA is undergoing a major cost reduction program. Apparently we have 2 years to get to our cost number. With the addition of cheaper carriers into DCI as a result of the merger cost will be a bigger issue more than ever

Management has stated that our current line bidding system is very expensive and inefficient, especially the transition from the end of the month to the beginning.

With all the new changes at ASA that has benefited the pilots and increased morale is it time for the pilot group to return the favor by switching to PBS?

With the new pressures industry wide to reduce cost maybe we need to do whatever is possible stop shrinking and possibly even grow.

Because if the current trend continues, I would not be surprised if junior ASA pilots start bailing to Mesaba, especially if they open an ATL base.

Now more than ever, I believe it is important for the pilot group to work together with management to achieve the common goal of the company. We do not want to become the next XJET.
 

Texx

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1. Management has stated that our current line bidding system is very expensive and inefficient, especially the transition from the end of the month to the beginning.

2. With all the new changes at ASA that has benefited the pilots and increased morale is it time for the pilot group to return the favor by switching to PBS?

3. With the new pressures industry wide to reduce cost maybe we need to do whatever is possible stop shrinking and possibly even grow.

4. Because if the current trend continues, I would not be surprised if junior ASA pilots start bailing to Mesaba, especially if they open an ATL base.

1. Why didn't management push for it during Section 6? And it is being looked at as per the letter signed during Section 6.

2. HAHAHA. Business is business. I really doubt that pilots are going to just give them PBS as a favor.

3. Ok. How about you start and do the company a "favor" and take a pay cut of oh $4 per hour?

4. That is their choice. It would save the company money.
 

jstyle13

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I'm willing to consider it if they are willing to give up some things for us in return.....
 

CFI2766

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You are kidding, right? Was there some sort of sarcasm indicator that you missed?

PBS would NOT be an improvement for the overwhelming, vast majority of the pilot group.

If the folks that run the airline want us to operate under a PBS system, they will have to negotiate for it. If pilots are going to take the hit to their quality of life that will come with PBS, then there WILL be something given to the pilot group in return.

This 'do a favor for management' line of thinking is playing with fire...
 

PBRstreetgang

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Vote for it, advance to completely miserable, asap. PBS was the single worst change to SKYW, even worse than the *************************et system for reserve since PBS screws everyone unequally. You guys love BH, great now that he has the kool-aid I.V. inserted he is gonna flip you over and strech your tater to the agony point. Thats the Skywest way, but don't fret, it will just make the decision to get out of aviation less painful. 10+ years of tater streching at SKYW and I can't wait to submit the dream letter for the 2 week countdown.
PBR
 

777forever

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Vote for it, advance to completely miserable, asap. PBS was the single worst change to SKYW, even worse than the *************************et system for reserve since PBS screws everyone unequally. You guys love BH, great now that he has the kool-aid I.V. inserted he is gonna flip you over and strech your tater to the agony point. Thats the Skywest way, but don't fret, it will just make the decision to get out of aviation less painful. 10+ years of tater streching at SKYW and I can't wait to submit the dream letter for the 2 week countdown.
PBR

Just being honest, but the overwhelming majority of people I've talked to at Skywest are very happy there. Just very strange to year Skywest and agony mentioned in the same sentence.
 

79%N1

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ASA could switch to PBS, fly single engine in cruise, take a paycut and work a day for free each month, and it won't stop the flying from going to Pinnacle and Mesaba. Anderson is a Wholly Owned carrier guy, as opposed to Delta's former leadership. ASA has shrunk in the past year, at the expense of Pinnacle's and now Mesaba's growth. I don't see what we can do to stop the slide now. It's funny, every day I see ASA above Pinnacle in performance (despite having 10 times the flights for DCI), yet Pinnacle gets more growth while ASA shrinks. ASA was told no growth during negotiations due to not knowing our future costs, yet Pinnacle continues to grow despite negotioations. Right now, ASA is on the outside looking in at the DCI restructuring, which will only get worse post-merger when 50's start getting parked as they have stated.

That said, I don't think PBS is that big of a deal like a lot of guys who think it is the end of the world.
 

CFIT

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The PBS program we have at SkyWest absoluetly sucks, it is the most user un-friendly system there is. A PBS program at most airlines is pretty good but the program, AOS, is the cheapest piece of sh!t SkyWest could find. It's a little better than our ould line system but not by much.

If the pilots at ASA are even considering a PBS system, stand firm against the AOS program.

I hear the program used at Northwest is pretty good but I'm not sure wo makes that one.

Rest assured managemnt will try to push AOS because it's cheap but bidding with it is a nightmare!
 

yellowfever

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Tell them you will talk about it, then meet with them hundreds of times. Then after five years ask them how they like dragging things out. Then tell them no.
 

mynameisjim

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...it won't stop the flying from going to Pinnacle and Mesaba. Anderson is a Wholly Owned carrier guy,.....

But Pinnacle is not wholly owned. They are a publicly traded company (PNCL), just like Skywest (SKYW).
 

jstyle13

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....Anderson is a Wholly Owned carrier guy, as opposed to Delta's former leadership. ASA has shrunk in the past year, at the expense of Pinnacle's and now Mesaba's growth

You forgot to include the explosion of growth that the other wholly owned (Comiar) has experienced over the last year as well.......
 

GearUpLightsIn

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With all the new changes at ASA that has benefited the pilots and increased morale is it time for the pilot group to return the favor by switching to PBS?

Please please please tell me what favor PBS would be in return for! Oh I know! D-0 mini-meals! I like post-negotiation, post-BL ASA much better, but none of it is as a result of any Company favors. I hope to hell you were kidding with your post.
 

Gr82Aviate

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The PBS program we have at SkyWest absoluetly sucks, it is the most user un-friendly system there is. A PBS program at most airlines is pretty good but the program, AOS, is the cheapest piece of sh!t SkyWest could find. It's a little better than our ould line system but not by much.

If the pilots at ASA are even considering a PBS system, stand firm against the AOS program.

I hear the program used at Northwest is pretty good but I'm not sure wo makes that one.

Rest assured managemnt will try to push AOS because it's cheap but bidding with it is a nightmare!



It's not better than our old line system, at least there was an ability to see what those above you were getting with the old system!! With PBS there's no transparency, and somehow guys junior to me end up with trips on my 1st and 2nd layers, while I'm getting trips from my 6th and 7th layers...
 
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777forever

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You forgot to include the explosion of growth that the other wholly owned (Comiar) has experienced over the last year as well.......

Lol. I don't think its a Wholly Owned thing that Mesaba is having an explosion. Its just that they happen to have a very junior pilot group. In fact, I'd think Compass is better served for growth than Mesaba. They don't have a Captain that's over 3 years seniority.

My friend at Mesaba didn't think Mesaba was so junior when I asked him about it. Almost all the 900 Capts he flies with are lifers.
 

777forever

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Please please please tell me what favor PBS would be in return for! Oh I know! D-0 mini-meals! I like post-negotiation, post-BL ASA much better, but none of it is as a result of any Company favors. I hope to hell you were kidding with your post.

Yeah you're right, I guess it was a desperate idea since it looks like our only base is about to get raided by cheaper carriers...

IMO that contract and our performance as of late is saving our tail. If we were still owned by Delta I think we'd be sitting in the corner with Comair right now while the younger kids got to play...
 

79%N1

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Yeah you're right, I guess it was a desperate idea since it looks like our only base is about to get raided by cheaper carriers...

IMO that contract and our performance as of late is saving our tail. If we were still owned by Delta I think we'd be sitting in the corner with Comair right now while the younger kids got to play...

And just how is ASA doing any better than Comair recently? Last I checked, ASA has not grown in years, while losing a fleet type with no replacement. I'd say we're sitting in the same corner.
 

Flybywire44

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ASA's pilots won't have any option but to vote in PBS... Again, we're the only DCI carrier without it. We have no reason the complain about PBS coming. What makes us so special? Thousands of other Delta Connection pilots live with it, why can't we? Delta wants to take our 200s away as it is...
I'm not the most senior pilot, but its obvious to me that we need it.

We just have to make sure its a good PBS system.

And just how is ASA doing any better than Comair recently? Last I checked, ASA has not grown in years, while losing a fleet type with no replacement. I'd say we're sitting in the same corner.

I'm sitting in CVG right now doing a Comair pilot's job. ASA filled in the vacuum they left behind. N2m DAL has no grudge against us... we may not be doing much better, but we're better for the moment.
 
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GearUpLightsIn

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Yeah you're right, I guess it was a desperate idea since it looks like our only base is about to get raided by cheaper carriers...

IMO that contract and our performance as of late is saving our tail. If we were still owned by Delta I think we'd be sitting in the corner with Comair right now while the younger kids got to play...

My question was what favors has the company given us. I don't think any of us at ASA think we would have been better off under Delta's flag. Is our improved performance based on company favors? Overall I like the direction that the company has gone with Brad and I think he is doing a good job, but the company is not doing us favors. You said return the favor and give them PBS. When we have to start contract talks again we will have 400 items on our bitch sheet for a new contract and the company will have one: PBS. We will have a hard time not ending up with PBS, but let us worry about that when we have to negotiate.
 

777forever

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My question was what favors has the company given us. I don't think any of us at ASA think we would have been better off under Delta's flag. Is our improved performance based on company favors? Overall I like the direction that the company has gone with Brad and I think he is doing a good job, but the company is not doing us favors. You said return the favor and give them PBS. When we have to start contract talks again we will have 400 items on our bitch sheet for a new contract and the company will have one: PBS. We will have a hard time not ending up with PBS, but let us worry about that when we have to negotiate.

Good points. For one, I am grateful the company has not furloughed even though statistically they should have. I think if we were under any other management team in the industry (besides SKW) we would have furloughed.
 

DoinTime

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ASA could switch to PBS, fly single engine in cruise, take a paycut and work a day for free each month, and it won't stop the flying from going to Pinnacle and Mesaba. Anderson is a Wholly Owned carrier guy, as opposed to Delta's former leadership. ASA has shrunk in the past year, at the expense of Pinnacle's and now Mesaba's growth. I don't see what we can do to stop the slide now. It's funny, every day I see ASA above Pinnacle in performance (despite having 10 times the flights for DCI), yet Pinnacle gets more growth while ASA shrinks. ASA was told no growth during negotiations due to not knowing our future costs, yet Pinnacle continues to grow despite negotioations. Right now, ASA is on the outside looking in at the DCI restructuring, which will only get worse post-merger when 50's start getting parked as they have stated.

That said, I don't think PBS is that big of a deal like a lot of guys who think it is the end of the world.

Where is all this growth at PCL and XJ? Here at PCL we have been floating back and forth between 124 and 140 airframes for the past three years and Mesaba is still not back to the fleet level they were at 8 years ago.
 
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