ASA Pilots: Time to Consider PBS?

[Kezwick]

Been with ASA as a Captain for a considerable amount of time. I think if PBS helps our status as an ability to grow and profit. We should be willing to sit down and see if it would work. No sense in just flat saying no without talking. That seems all too familiar to 5 years of bad negotiating.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Been with ASA as a Captain for a considerable amount of time. I think if PBS helps our status as an ability to grow and profit. We should be willing to sit down and see if it would work. No sense in just flat saying no without talking. That seems all too familiar to 5 years of bad negotiating.

You may or may not have the most to lose. The reality is SKYW wants PBS because it allows them the ability to control the assigned flying down to the single pairing at will(theirs). If you think SKYW will just hand you the "book of legs/pairings", you are hitting the pipe a little too hard. The only guys who think PBS is "pretty good" are the ones who know no better, I have been there 10+ years and CFIT, even longer, and we don't like it. If you want the illusion that "you" have control over your schedule vote for it, reality is the company controls your schedule and will not let that go. There was a month a while ago, the #1 Captain in DEN who bids 4 day commutable trips was awarded a mix of 1-3 day uncommutable garbage schedule. You say, "he didn"t bid correctly, wrong, he bids specific pairings and is extremely computer saavy. PBS guru when queried, shrugged his shoulders and had no answer as to why his bid came out the way it did. AOS is a POS, as are most PBS bidding programs(LUV excepted).
PBR

 

[Abernathy]

777forever, for someone who's never been able to hold an actual line, you really seem to know a lot about why PBS is so much better than our current line system.

PBS will especially suck for those of us that don't want to be regional lifers.

PBS will not get us those shiny EMB-175s, it will not get us another $2.35/hr pay raise, it won't get us United and British Airways flying, and it won't get us 777's...forever.

 

[www.]

777forever, for someone who's never been able to hold an actual line, you really seem to know a lot about why PBS is so much better than our current line system.


PBS will not get us those shiny EMB-175s, it will not get us another $2.35/hr pay raise, it won't get us United and British Airways flying, and it won't get us 777's...forever.

He's been at ASA for only about a year.

 

[Abernathy]

Nevermind. Not worth my time.

 

[SiuDude]

If we do vote for PBS, one thing we must have is the extension of the no-furlough clause to all pilots currently on the seniority list.

Delta has a pretty good PBS system supplied by Navtech:
http://www.navtechinc.com/solutions/index.html
However any good software can be customized into a POS so a lot of work must go into writing contract language and configuring the algorithms to comply with the contract.

 

[PCL_128]

If we do vote for PBS, one thing we must have is the extension of the no-furlough clause to all pilots currently on the seniority list.

Delta has a pretty good PBS system supplied by Navtech:
http://www.navtechinc.com/solutions/index.html
However any good software can be customized into a POS so a lot of work must go into writing contract language and configuring the algorithms to comply with the contract.

We did a lot of research into PBS programs when I was on the MEC at PCL. Navtech and Northwest's Airware are really the only decent PBS programs, and Airware is proprietary. Anything other than Navtech should immediately be shot down. Don't let them stick you with Altitudes or SBS Pref Bid. The results won't be pretty.

 

[79%N1]

The problem, I believe is, the PBS that ASA would get is the one that is already compatible to the sked+ and crewbid, which is the one Skywest uses.

I could be wrong, that is how I understand it, though.

 

[Texx]

The problem, I believe is, the PBS that ASA would get is the one that is already compatible to the sked+ and crewbid, which is the one Skywest uses.

I could be wrong, that is how I understand it, though.

Look what's under the Xmas tree this year Daddy!

http://www.flightline.com/PrefBid.htm

 

[gator_hater]

If it gets that commie WF a line and off the ALPA web board I'm all for it.

 

[701EV]

gator_ hater,

You don't take WF seriously do you? WF says half of that stuff just to get people fired up. Even if WF gets a line he'll still be on the ALPA board.

701EV

Oh yeah
GO GATORS!

 

[gator_hater]

No, I don't take him seriously I've heard him rant on the bus way too often. I just thought this was a great place to vent about his latest topic.

I love it when time changes the week of the cocktail party. Gives us an extra hour at the landing to enjoy our win.

 

[ASApuppy]

If management wants pref bid so bad, just like Skywest, then offer to put us on ONE LIST and then we'll use theirs! Welcome to the world of cost savings. Look at the Delta Northwest merger. Look at how much effort is getting put into integrating these two carriers together. Why? Because operating two seperate airlines is more expensive than one bigger one. Duh...

 

[777forever]

If management wants pref bid so bad, just like Skywest, then offer to put us on ONE LIST and then we'll use theirs! Welcome to the world of cost savings. Look at the Delta Northwest merger. Look at how much effort is getting put into integrating these two carriers together. Why? Because operating two seperate airlines is more expensive than one bigger one. Duh...

They would probably do that if both were ALPA or if both were non-union but I think that difference makes it difficult legally to do. Probably why Colgan and PNCL haven't been merged. Personally I would welcome a merger with SKW.

Since it looks like PBS is inevitable, we need to come up with some decent proposals of what we want in return and communicate that to ALPA.

Furlough protection for everyone on the seniority list post signing date is a must IMO.

 

[701EV]

No, I don't take him seriously I've heard him rant on the bus way too often. I just thought this was a great place to vent about his latest topic.

I love it when time changes the week of the cocktail party. Gives us an extra hour at the landing to enjoy our win.

gator_hater, are you going down for the game?
I'm working. I'll be watching from SYR.

You mean an extra hour to drown your sorrows.

701EV
GO GATORS

 

[Gr82Aviate]

You may or may not have the most to lose. The reality is SKYW wants PBS because it allows them the ability to control the assigned flying down to the single pairing at will(theirs). If you think SKYW will just hand you the "book of legs/pairings", you are hitting the pipe a little too hard. The only guys who think PBS is "pretty good" are the ones who know no better, I have been there 10+ years and CFIT, even longer, and we don't like it. If you want the illusion that "you" have control over your schedule vote for it, reality is the company controls your schedule and will not let that go. There was a month a while ago, the #1 Captain in DEN who bids 4 day commutable trips was awarded a mix of 1-3 day uncommutable garbage schedule. You say, "he didn"t bid correctly, wrong, he bids specific pairings and is extremely computer saavy. PBS guru when queried, shrugged his shoulders and had no answer as to why his bid came out the way it did. AOS is a POS, as are most PBS bidding programs(LUV excepted).
PBR

I agree with you completely! I've had 3 different PBS trainers look at my bids, and none of them can figure out why guys with a quarter of my seniority are getting the pairings in my 1st and 2nd layers while I'm getting a crummy mix from my 4th, 5th, 6th, & 7th layers. I've also tried their suggestions with little to no improvement!

 

[Abernathy]

If it gets that commie WF a line and off the ALPA web board I'm all for it.

stop crying.

 

[Texx]

They would probably do that if both were ALPA or if both were non-union but I think that difference makes it difficult legally to do. Probably why Colgan and PNCL haven't been merged. Personally I would welcome a merger with SKW.

Since it looks like PBS is inevitable, we need to come up with some decent proposals of what we want in return and communicate that to ALPA.

Furlough protection for everyone on the seniority list post signing date is a must IMO.

Does not benefit the entire pilot group across the board. If the entire pilot group gives, the entire pilot group should benefit equally.

 

[OCP]

How about lead in and lead out days for vacation. That is a big thing we are going to loose with perf bid, the extra days that we can bid around vacation.

 

[SiuDude]

How about lead in and lead out days for vacation. That is a big thing we are going to loose with perf bid, the extra days that we can bid around vacation.

I believe with the SKW system, you get 3 days off added before or after the vacation. Still, that's not the same as having 2 conflicting 4-day trips drop. Regardless, it's what WE are able to negotiate that matters.