ASA Pilots: Time to Consider PBS?

[777forever]

PBS on the wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Gathering in Las Vegas, NV, our ASA MEC met last week to conduct regular business and participate in a week-long ALPA Board of Directors meeting that concluded this week.
Throughout the regular session, members of the MEC received detailed reports from several committee chairmen. This afforded a chance for the MEC to direct future efforts on the part of each committee. We’ll provide updates on those reports and findings in upcoming editions of the Connection.
The one area of concentration most likely to peak everyone’s interest is in the field of a Preferential Bidding System (PBS). We reported to you in the last Connection email that the MEC PBS Working Group (PWG) was reaching the end of their research, to determine whether or not a PBS system would improve the quality of life for all ASA pilots as well as enhance the productivity of the company. The MEC received a detailed report from the Pilot Working Group (PWG).
It is clear that the PWG, during numerous meetings, compiled extensive research and knowledge on the available PBS systems and their practical application. It is the PWG’s recommendation to the MEC that PBS can in fact improve the quality of life for ASA pilots if an adequate PBS application is selected and appropriate parameters and controls are established and managed by ALPA pilots.
In result of these findings, and at the request of ASA management to enter in negotiations regarding PBS, the ASA MEC drafted and unanimously passed resolution 08-14.

Man, and here we are discussing even considering it and it looks like PBS is well on the way.

If they can pull off maintaining QOL and increasing company productivity its a win/win situation.

From what I've heard the current line bidding system is very very inefficient and expensive.

 

[sweptback]

As far as negotiations go, if we had taken the contract the first time it was offered we would have had 17 900s and wouldn't be in this position right now but that's another story.....

If we would have taken the first contract offered, our new contract wouldn't have looked too much different from our old one (most of our pilots over about 1 or 2 years would not have supported it). Plus the 17 900s would still be flying in SkyWest colors... they had an ALPA drive going on over there at the time and the only way to assure that it got voted down was to stack the deck with a bunch of new pilots with SJS. It worked.

There were factors with the awarding of the 900s that went far beyond the lack of a contract at ASA. No growth was coming to us even if we had a contract done at the time... the excuses would have been different however.

 

[PCL_128]

That was a low blow.

Ah, don't get worked up about it. Joey and I have been taking cheap shots at each other for years. It's more of a joke than anything now.

 

[777forever]

If we would have taken the first contract offered, our new contract wouldn't have looked too much different from our old one (most of our pilots over about 1 or 2 years would not have supported it). Plus the 17 900s would still be flying in SkyWest colors... they had an ALPA drive going on over there at the time and the only way to assure that it got voted down was to stack the deck with a bunch of new pilots with SJS. It worked.

There were factors with the awarding of the 900s that went far beyond the lack of a contract at ASA. No growth was coming to us even if we had a contract done at the time... the excuses would have been different however.

I was referring to the first time the current contract was offered. You know, the one when Jerry said he'll transfer the 900s if we keep holding out for higher 70/90 seat pay and other stuff. And you guys gladly told him to send the 900s to Skywest.

Hopefully we can learn from our past mistakes of "chest thumping" and actually work with the company to achieve its goals. In the long run it will result in more money for all of us. A great start would be to get rid of an outdated, highly inefficient, and costly bidding system and replace it with an adequate PBS system that is properly controlled so it benefits everyone.

PBS cannot be as bad as ASA pilots make it out to be. Everyone in DCI has PBS. And for goodness sakes even NWA and DAL have it. It's not about the system, but the implementation.

 

[Texx]

Ah, don't get worked up about it. Joey and I have been taking cheap shots at each other for years. It's more of a joke than anything now.

I'm not worked up. If you only really knew him.

 

[PCL_128]

If you only really knew him.

I'd love to meet Joey! Just so long as Pennekamp is there to keep us from killing each other.

 

[Texx]

I was referring to the first time the current contract was offered. You know, the one when Jerry said he'll transfer the 900s if we keep holding out for higher 70/90 seat pay and other stuff. And you guys gladly told him to send the 900s to Skywest.

Hopefully we can learn from our past mistakes of "chest thumping" and actually work with the company to achieve its goals. In the long run it will result in more money for all of us. A great start would be to get rid of an outdated, highly inefficient, and costly bidding system and replace it with an adequate PBS system that is properly controlled so it benefits everyone.

PBS cannot be as bad as ASA pilots make it out to be. Everyone in DCI has PBS. And for goodness sakes even NWA and DAL have it. It's not about the system, but the implementation.

Silence is golden. Practice it.

 

[Texx]

I'd love to meet Joey! Just so long as Pennekamp is there to keep us from killing each other.

They are a great pair!

 

[www.]

Silence is golden. Practice it.

I think 777forever is really OBAMA. They wan't to giveaway everything!

 

[sweptback]

I was referring to the first time the current contract was offered. You know, the one when Jerry said he'll transfer the 900s if we keep holding out for higher 70/90 seat pay and other stuff. And you guys gladly told him to send the 900s to Skywest.

Were you even here when this happened? You don't know half the story. The company's "proposal" was laughable -- it was paycuts for everybody and totally regressive work rules.

Hopefully we can learn from our past mistakes of "chest thumping" and actually work with the company to achieve its goals. In the long run it will result in more money for all of us. A great start would be to get rid of an outdated, highly inefficient, and costly bidding system and replace it with an adequate PBS system that is properly controlled so it benefits everyone.

You have no idea about company finances so for you to say anything about PBS is irrelevant. Would PBS save the company money? Sure (not enough to make a huge difference though). PBS also would enable the company to staff the airline using less pilots. So, you as a junior pilot looking to get off reserve/upgrade/whatever should be against PBS based on that fact alone.

 

[www.]

Were you even here when this happened? You don't know half the story. The company's "proposal" was laughable -- it was paycuts for everybody and totally regressive work rules.




You have no idea about company finances so for you to say anything about PBS is irrelevant. Would PBS save the company money? Sure (not enough to make a huge difference though). PBS also would enable the company to staff the airline using less pilots. So, you as a junior pilot looking to get off reserve/upgrade/whatever should be against PBS based on that fact alone.

I would guess that he came in AFTER the signing date. Which means he is not protected from "F".

 

[CFIT]

Do ASA pilots have currently a means where the company can pre-assign training events?

SkyWest got that with PBS and with it they can set up your training and you cannot have bid obstacle. Meaning if before if you had a day that paid 6hrs and were pulled off of the trip for recurrent, now you have to bid around it and they only have to pay for the day of training which is 4hrs.

Say NO to AOS!

 

[blesko]

I was referring to the first time the current contract was offered. You know, the one when Jerry said he'll transfer the 900s if we keep holding out for higher 70/90 seat pay and other stuff. And you guys gladly told him to send the 900s to Skywest.

Hopefully we can learn from our past mistakes of "chest thumping" and actually work with the company to achieve its goals. In the long run it will result in more money for all of us. A great start would be to get rid of an outdated, highly inefficient, and costly bidding system and replace it with an adequate PBS system that is properly controlled so it benefits everyone.

PBS cannot be as bad as ASA pilots make it out to be. Everyone in DCI has PBS. And for goodness sakes even NWA and DAL have it. It's not about the system, but the implementation.

It works great if your senior.......sounds like you're junior enough to still be doing MGM trips....just on the jet

 

[JettBoii]

Yellow..like that avatar. =0)

 

[701EV]

CFIT,

I'm getting dizzy looking at all those round things!

Nice avtar!

701EV

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

Silence is golden. Practice it.

I second that. Get a clue.

 

[CFI2766]

Well, it seems as though the folks on the MEC recognize that PBS is coming. I agree with the tone of the release in that if PBS is coming, we should get something for it.

Questions I haven't heard yet: What would the pilot group want in return for PBS? What would the company be willing to negotiate to get PBS?

I think that PBS could work if closely administered by the pilot group, with ultimate control held by the pilot group. This is the ONLY way I would vote for this.

I don't see the company agreeing to this; the cost savings wouldn't be there. Therefore, I am against PBS.

 

[79%N1]

PBS for all new 900's to be based in ATL or no deal.

Other than that, nothing the company has is any interest to me.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

PBS for all new 900's to be based in ATL or no deal.

Other than that, nothing the company has is any interest to me.

Bingo! PBS is a huge cost savings measure on the company, and that's the line that management is going to use to try to get the pilot group to greenlight PBS. It is a huge cost savings measure, but it also allows the company to run with a "leaner" pilot group, so who knows if furloughs would follow.

There are several different software programs for PBS, and some companies are better than others. Jepp makes one, and have heard horrible things about it from friends in Newark and Houston. Fundamentally, it's not as beneficial to the junior guys as bidding for lines are. However, as a pilot group, it would makes the company a lot more competitive to get new flying, within DCI and beyond.

 

[777forever]

Any word on how much we are overstaffed by? Last I heard was 300, then down to 150 for Nov/Dec flying. Even with PBS I don't see them furloughing people when spring and summer flying will be coming up as soon as the final ATR pilots are jet trained.