ASA PBS Vacation

[Speedtape]

86% of our guys voted in favor of this crapball system. You have no idea the level of uninformed, disengaged silliness you are getting drug into. I can't decide whether our pilot group has lost it critical reasoning ability, or has just forgotten that it once had a collective set of gonads. Whatever, the effect is the same-we are a collective parade of pansies.

Just read the PBS stuff VERY carefully. It has very misleading, and purposefully weak language. Don't base your opinion on what ANY of our guys may tell you. Only trust what you can see in black and white. Hopefully, XJET has a sufficient number of guys with some sense to help us find our balls again. Maybe we could even get rid of this horrid agreement before it drills us all in the pooper.

I am so looking forward to the moment when you eat crow on your words about this PBS system. You are clueless! You make broad statements as though you are an expert. You do the same on the Alpa forum. Do you think that the majority (the 86% that you cite) of ASA pilots have no sense, as you infer in your statement above? And, in the same inference imply that all Express Jet pilots are all knowing? I would submit, that in reality, both pilot groups are about the same. That means, there is probably at least one clown like you over there--scary thought! I would only say that your behavior, inferences, and accusations, are an embarrasment to this pilot group. You are in a minority in your assessments and it's predictable that you always think the sky is falling. If life is so terrible here, and you have remained, then even though it's your baseless perspective, WHY HAVE YOU STAYED? It makes you look very silly!

 

[DHPFLYN]

With all due respect, Mr. Badog, I just spent all week-end reading your contract. It's not bad. However, from an overall perspective, I still think the ASA contract is better. However, it's a moot point to argue who has the best. In the future, we will have something that should look better than either today. But, we need to make sure that we don't overreach as there is a point where we can't compete. Our standard, unfortunately, will be Skywest. If we cannot maintain reasonable costs, if Inc. wins flying, it will go to Skywest. Furthermore, if progress is too slow in negotiations, flying will be transferred to Skywest. Unfortunately, there is already history to prove it. We can thump our chest, we can use all the leverage we can muster, but, there is another venue that Inc. will place the flying.

Wow I see you are scared of the company. I hope all the ASA pilots don't have the same scared attitude.

 

[dojetdriver]

It's so funny how you guys "want, want, want", all this chest pounding we won't take this or we won't accept that. Question. What would you be demanding or getting if SKYWEST (just so nobody gets PO'd if I say ASA) hadn't acquired you?

Sorry, but as soon as you take that "ASA bought you and we saved your a$$" mentality, you can't expect much in return.

You are right. Not trying to lable 2400 pilots for statements by a few. Every pilot I have met in person were good guys. The PBS thing just gets so old. It's not as great as you have. It's not all that bad, in fact can do some cool things line bidding can't do ---- AND YOU CAN STILL MAXIMIZE YOUR VACATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bold is the key part. If that's the way it's gonna be done, it's nothing but a concession for the majority of the pilots on the combined list.

With all due respect, Mr. Badog, I just spent all week-end reading your contract. It's not bad. However, from an overall perspective, I still think the ASA contract is better.

I beg to differ after spending time in the crasahpad and reading the ASA contract. Especially when it comes to scheduling, hours of service, and compensation. As well as sick time accrual and 401K. I'd be willing to go head to head in a comparison with you if you want on those those areas. I only found 2 items that were better than XJT's. The one dealing with rest period length on an unscheduled overnight in domicile, and a long call provision.

 

[Nevets]

Our standard, unfortunately, will be Skywest. If we cannot maintain reasonable costs, if Inc. wins flying, it will go to Skywest. Furthermore, if progress is too slow in negotiations, flying will be transferred to Skywest. Unfortunately, there is already history to prove it. We can thump our chest, we can use all the leverage we can muster, but, there is another venue that Inc. will place the flying.

Why can't Skywest pilots see this and do something about them being used as a whipsaw?

Anyways, like dojet said, sick time and vacation accrual, vacation provisions, 401k matching, defined contribution plan, compensation, insurance, and from the sounds of it, reserve rules are all better. And it should only get better in a JCBA. PBS is really the only major drag in your contract.

 

[dojetdriver]

PBS is really the only major drag in your contract.

Beg to differ, reread the scheduling, hours of service, and compensation.

Those are a bit of drag as well.

 

[crj567]

I am so looking forward to the moment when you eat crow on your words about this PBS system. !

Let's hope you are right. I am simply basing my opinion on the actual language, not the "pie in the sky" version we have been sold. If you went to a roadshow, you probably will recall how the company will be "nice," and the system will "force" them to create great trips somehow. Hopefully these XJET guys will do a better job of noodling this one out than most of us have. This is the worst agreement we have ever signed, it is wide open for abuse.

-Do you really think most of our guys are informed and engaged? How many went to a roadshow, read this agreement, or have ever been to a union meeting or actually talked to a rep-ever?
-They have little reason to give a crap, if you think about it. They will be at mainline in a matter of weeks-thanks to the next pilot shortage. Just ask our old pal Kit!
-Hopefully, our XJET friends will bring a better perspective.

 

[OCP]

So what exactly are the XJTers afraid of with PBS? So far we've shown that you don't lose any vacation and still get paid 75. Even junior people, who never would have been able to do that. Integration is gone. It creates more lines so someone who has been on reserve forever may actually get a line. You'll have 100s of sort options to get the trips you want. It is NOTHING like Continental, so your friends over there who hate it don't know it. P.S. Most Delta guys like theirs.
What is the down side that you are afraid of?

 

[Nevets]

So what exactly are the XJTers afraid of with PBS? So far we've shown that you don't lose any vacation and still get paid 75. Even junior people, who never would have been able to do that. Integration is gone. It creates more lines so someone who has been on reserve forever may actually get a line. You'll have 100s of sort options to get the trips you want. It is NOTHING like Continental, so your friends over there who hate it don't know it. P.S. Most Delta guys like theirs.
What is the down side that you are afraid of?

I honestly think that most people's attitude is one of, if it's not broken don't break it. So it's been shown anecdotally that in mock bids, where not everyone is submitting a bid, that you can get almost as many days off and get paid guarantee in a vacation month. Well we already have that anyways plus we have the initial line improvement window and some open time left over at the end during the secondary line improvement window. So why should we go with PBS when we are happy with what we have already and risk losing one of thee best thing about our contract? It's just not worth it so far. My question is why are some ASA guys so eager to sell PBS to us, especially when you haven't even gone live with it?

 

[79%N1]

Because many of us believe we will like it better than line bidding, and that it will help make/keep our company profitable and competitive. I see that many of the XJT guys don't care about that by their replies to those comments, but it is real and important. Future and current contracts will go to others if we do not stay competitive, and I will say again that our management stressed the importance of having this due to the fact that we were the only DCI carrier without it. It did/does put ASA at a competitive disadvantage with Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair and Skywest.

 

[dojetdriver]

Because many of us believe we will like it better than line bidding

Fair enough. But just like you keep advocating that XJT pilots have no idea how good your system is, ASA pilots have no idea how good our system is. Both the line bid, as well as the massive flexibility of the line improvement window. With PBS, you put in your preferences and get what you get. If your senior great, if junior, not so great. With the lack of open time with a PBS system, not much flexibility. With the line bid, a junior pilot could get stuck with a crappy line, JUST LIKE WITH PBS. However, UNLIKE PBS, there's enough open time to fix it in the LIW's. Period, end of story.

and that it will help make/keep our company profitable and competitive. I see that many of the XJT guys don't care about that by their replies to those comments, but it is real and important. Future and current contracts will go to others if we do not stay competitive, and I will say again that our management stressed the importance of having this due to the fact that we were the only DCI carrier without it. It did/does put ASA at a competitive disadvantage with Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair and Skywest.

You're gonna have to forgive me here, but how many concessions have you been through in your career? How many times have you been told that you have to take a hit in pay/QOL to "stay competitive" so your company doesn't lose future flying?

I've been through 2 so far, and in both cases, it didn't make a damn but of difference.

 

[COOPERVANE]

The future competitiveness of ASA does not hinge on PBS.

 

[OCP]

The future competitiveness of ASA does not hinge on PBS.

Not alone, but it helps.

 

[49W]

Not alone, but it helps.

So would taking a 25% paycut.

 

[OCP]

So would taking a 25% paycut.

No one is asking, or expcing a 25% paycut. They are asking to help compromise to help reduce their overall cost. PBS will help with that, and in exchange we were able to choose almost every aspect of how the system works.

 

[LazyLightnin']

No one is asking, or expcing a 25% paycut. They are asking to help compromise to help reduce their overall cost. PBS will help with that, and in exchange we were able to choose almost every aspect of how the system works.

So when they build the lines right at 75 with no open time to pick up, that's not close to a 25% cut? That's rhetorical... Meaning no need to answer. I already know it.

 

[OCP]

So when they build the lines right at 75 with no open time to pick up, that's not close to a 25% cut? That's rhetorical... Meaning no need to answer. I already know it.

If I don't have to answer, then it's clear you have no understanding of how our system works. They don't "build" the lines. The software does that based on your preferences. They set a threshold every month and you get to choose how much over or under that you want the software to add tips. I think he number is +/- 15 hrs, but not sure off hand.

 

[LazyLightnin']

If I don't have to answer, then it's clear you have no understanding of how our system works. They don't "build" the lines. The software does that based on your preferences. They set a threshold every month and you get to choose how much over or under that you want the software to add tips. I think he number is +/- 15 hrs, but not sure off hand.

Ok so a credit threshold of 70-85. Not much difference really compared to what we're used to. Big paycheck cut headed your way.

 

[79%N1]

Nope. Wrong again. Many will raise their pay. Many will have much greater control of the types of trips they fly. Many, many more will get off reserve and hold a line.......

 

[LazyLightnin']

Nope. Wrong again. Many will raise their pay. Many will have much greater control of the types of trips they fly. Many, many more will get off reserve and hold a line.......

Yes,T... You'll finally get off reserve. Congrats....

Paycut

 

[79%N1]

Probably not!