ASA PBS Vacation

[princeton]

....

If this thing turns out to be good for line holders, and reserves hardly work I'm thinking the tune we hear from XJT peeps, will change overnight.

Ive said it before, the company needs this (PBS), and they need the two companies to be merged sooner rather than later. They will stop at nothing to make that happen.

Carry on.

Speaking as an "XJT peep", I agree with you 100%.

Our experience with PBS is the messed up system that our buddies in CAL have to deal with. That's the reason many of us want nothing to do with it but if a good system can be demonstrated to us most would be open to it.

For lineholders, our vacation (with touching trips dropping off) pretty much guarantees you about 20 days off in a block for each week of vacation (that's at least 6 days off before AND after your vacation) with 75 hours of pay and about 40 hours of flying to do in the month. You can then pick up trips for extra pay if you want.

If PBS will allow that then we will vote for it.

 

[Medeco]

Speaking as an "XJT peep", I agree with you 100%.

Our experience with PBS is the messed up system that our buddies in CAL have to deal with. That's the reason many of us want nothing to do with it but if a good system can be demonstrated to us most would be open to it.

For lineholders, our vacation (with touching trips dropping off) pretty much guarantees you about 20 days off in a block for each week of vacation (that's at least 6 days off before AND after your vacation) with 75 hours of pay and about 40 hours of flying to do in the month. You can then pick up trips for extra pay if you want.

If PBS will allow that then we will vote for it.

For the PBS system on vacation, all one has to do is pickup 36hrs to meet the min required for 75hr pay.

So if you are senior enough, you can work 8 days and have the rest off.

how does that sound?

 

[Nevets]

For the PBS system on vacation, all one has to do is pickup 36hrs to meet the min required for 75hr pay.

So if you are senior enough, you can work 8 days and have the rest off.

how does that sound?

At XJT, being senior enough means you are a line holder. Because if you can hold a line, you will get 19 consecutive days off and work 8 days in a 30 day bid period with at least 75 hour line value.

 

[LazyLightnin']

At XJT, being senior enough means you are a line holder. Because if you can hold a line, you will get 19 consecutive days off and work 8 days in a 30 day bid period with at least 75 hour line value.

You guys have the leverage to repeal PBS for us. Go for it.



Next on the chopping block... Socialist Obamacare. 2011 will be a great year.

 

[Fishpaw]

At XJT, being senior enough means you are a line holder. Because if you can hold a line, you will get 19 consecutive days off and work 8 days in a 30 day bid period with at least 75 hour line value.

I disagree. If you can only hold a 12 day off line during your vacation month you'll only knock two 4 day trips off at best. That gives you 20 days off and a 75 hr guarantee for the month. You then may be able to trade one of your low credit 4 days for a 3 day of equal value during the initial line improvement window (protecting your 75 hrs and giving you an extra day off), but there's no guarantee. To say all line holders only work 8 days with 75 hrs pay in a vacation month isn't completely true.

I still expect to vote no for PBS (especially if it eliminates open time and the initial line improvement window), but lets be honest about what we can and can't do with what we currently have at XJT. Our vacation isn't spectacular for the low seniority line holders, relief line holders, and reserves.

 

[79%N1]

Aren't all these days off at XJT only possible if you can bid, and be awarded a line that has a trip ending on your first day of vaca, and another starting on your last day of vaca? What if you are not fortunate enough to find a line with exactly those days? You guys make it sound like those lines grow on trees, and everyone gets one in your vacation month! What if you aren't senior enough to hold one of those, or the trips miss by one day? Then you are only getting 9-12 days off in a row. I just can't imagine every one of your pilots gets a line that perfectly touches your vacation every time to make this such a priority over there. Heck, we have the exact trip dropping provision at ASA, and for me it was always rare to find - and be awarded - the line that touches so perfectly.

 

[79%N1]

I disagree. If you can only hold a 12 day off line during your vacation month you'll only knock two 4 day trips off at best. That gives you 20 days off and a 75 hr guarantee for the month. You then may be able to trade one of your low credit 4 days for a 3 day of equal value during the initial line improvement window (protecting your 75 hrs and giving you an extra day off), but there's no guarantee. To say all line holders only work 8 days with 75 hrs pay in a vacation month isn't completely true.

I still expect to vote no for PBS (especially if it eliminates open time and the initial line improvement window), but lets be honest about what we can and can't do with what we currently have at XJT. Our vacation isn't spectacular for the low seniority line holders, relief line holders, and reserves.

With PBS you shouldn't need to "improve your line", as you should originally be awarded what you want - or prefer. If line bidding is so great and you want to keep it so bad, why all the need for improving your line? Why not just bid that in the first place? PBS also offers you more flexibility. Want to work Mon-Thur one week, but Wed-Sat the next, you can with PBS, but not with line bidding. Heck, you could build a 7-10 day vacation every month by bidding your trips that way. Not with line bidding.

There is a lot you can do with this, and I hope you guys are open to looking at it instead of just shooting it down.

 

[Nevets]

I disagree. If you can only hold a 12 day off line during your vacation month you'll only knock two 4 day trips off at best. That gives you 20 days off and a 75 hr guarantee for the month. You then may be able to trade one of your low credit 4 days for a 3 day of equal value during the initial line improvement window (protecting your 75 hrs and giving you an extra day off), but there's no guarantee. To say all line holders only work 8 days with 75 hrs pay in a vacation month isn't completely true.

I still expect to vote no for PBS (especially if it eliminates open time and the initial line improvement window), but lets be honest about what we can and can't do with what we currently have at XJT. Our vacation isn't spectacular for the low seniority line holders, relief line holders, and reserves.

I should have said that what I posted is all anecdotal. When I was junior line holder and from talking to all the captains I've flown with on a vacation month who were junior line holders, my experience has been that generally you get 19 consecutive days off and work at least two other four day trips and usually another carry in or carry out trip if you only hold 12 days off.

Aren't all these days off at XJT only possible if you can bid, and be awarded a line that has a trip ending on your first day of vaca, and another starting on your last day of vaca? What if you are not fortunate enough to find a line with exactly those days? You guys make it sound like those lines grow on trees, and everyone gets one in your vacation month! What if you aren't senior enough to hold one of those, or the trips miss by one day? Then you are only getting 9-12 days off in a row. I just can't imagine every one of your pilots gets a line that perfectly touches your vacation every time to make this such a priority over there. Heck, we have the exact trip dropping provision at ASA, and for me it was always rare to find - and be awarded - the line that touches so perfectly.

Again anecdotally, especially in my case where I'm IAH based, we have had 400-500+ lines. So there are tons of trips built to accommodate that type of vacation bidding. Even if it doesn't fall exactly on the first or last day, you can end up with a really good vacation month schedule. Of course in a place like CLE where there aren't as many lines, it may not be so. Maybe that is the same issue you have in ATL or IAD?

With PBS you shouldn't need to "improve your line", as you should originally be awarded what you want - or prefer. If line bidding is so great and you want to keep it so bad, why all the need for improving your line? Why not just bid that in the first place? PBS also offers you more flexibility. Want to work Mon-Thur one week, but Wed-Sat the next, you can with PBS, but not with line bidding. Heck, you could build a 7-10 day vacation every month by bidding your trips that way. Not with line bidding.

There is a lot you can do with this, and I hope you guys are open to looking at it instead of just shooting it down.

Even if you get the line you want, there may be a better trip that you rather have. In our ILIW we can improve our line to work Mon-Thur one week and Wed-Sat the next, assuming you didn't get a line like that which we do have many of. What we have gives us the flexibility you say PBS gives you. So why should we go with PBS and risk losing what we already have? In other words, why go with PBS and build our protections into it like vacation and open time and ILIW when we already have all that already?

 

[79%N1]

Good points. I just believe PBS is a hill our management is willing to die on. Hope it works out for us all.

 

[NotTooBad]

Speaking as an "XJT peep", I agree with you 100%.

Our experience with PBS is the messed up system that our buddies in CAL have to deal with. That's the reason many of us want nothing to do with it but if a good system can be demonstrated to us most would be open to it.

For lineholders, our vacation (with touching trips dropping off) pretty much guarantees you about 20 days off in a block for each week of vacation (that's at least 6 days off before AND after your vacation) with 75 hours of pay and about 40 hours of flying to do in the month. You can then pick up trips for extra pay if you want.

If PBS will allow that then we will vote for it.

You'll vote for it then. I had 20 days off with 4 in the current month and 3 days of vacation in the following month. I'm about 42% in base seniority. Not 100% sure if the awards are accurate though considering it was the first time anyone has seen the results. In any case I'm pretty sure I can most always get the 35ish hours required to meet the target credit window which will result in only working 8 days in a vacation month.