ASA PBS Goes LIVE!

[the palm]

Thanks that definitely explains it.

Just looked at the pairings. Most 3 days I saw were blocked at 15-16 hrs credit. Definitely not enough to make a pure 3 day schedule.

Not even an 18 hr 3 day would be enough to make a pure 3 day schedule. 18x4 still only gets you to 72. Be careful of this scenario!!!! The system could still slap a 4 day on top of your 72 hrs. Make sure you know the credit values of the trips you bid!!!

 

[Freebrd]

Palm is correct (he paid me $20 to say dat). Heck even some of the 4 days, doing one a week, won't get you to 75! So it'll tack on a dayline, if you're lucky, to make 75!

 

[COOPERVANE]

The company wants the most warm bodies at work as possible. Even if they have 100 pilots on 30 hour overnights. They dont want ANYBODY sitting at home.

Lots of "rescheduling" flexibility for them.

 

[777forever]

Not even an 18 hr 3 day would be enough to make a pure 3 day schedule. 18x4 still only gets you to 72. Be careful of this scenario!!!! The system could still slap a 4 day on top of your 72 hrs. Make sure you know the credit values of the trips you bid!!!

Now that you mention it, how did 3 days on the 200 in the past look when people held pure 3 day schedules? With the 200 restricted to 600 mile flights or less if they build 3 days pairings that can complete a schedule they will have at least 5 or 6 legs a day, which is pretty much what the ATR was

 

[looking_down]

PBS = Pure Bull Shat!!!! Gotta hand it to management, they pulled the wool really tight.....So tight, I can't see my QOL improving anytime soon.

Thanks Papa L

 

[crj567]

Now that you mention it, how did 3 days on the 200 in the past look when people held pure 3 day schedules? With the 200 restricted to 600 mile flights or less if they build 3 days pairings that can complete a schedule they will have at least 5 or 6 legs a day, which is pretty much what the ATR was

I sure thought there were plenty of pure 3-day lines on the ATR for years... Maybe my memory fails me, but pretty much any line pilot on any aircraft could expect to see 17 or more days off per month at some point during their career.

-The difference is SH hates naps, and I hate SH.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

There are no lines with PBS. It's just a huge pot of pairings you can pick from. The junior people might actually end up with the higher credited schedules "thanks" to unstacking.
To answer your question: regardless of the credit-hour value of the schedule awarded, you will get paid at least the guarantee (unless you're unavailable for a part of the month).

I understand how pbs works. If you were at CO on the 757 the most junior pbs awards, which I call a line once its been awarded, have min days off and will have a credit of ~50 hours but will be paid 75 hours, due to incredibly unproductive trips that no one else wants. I was wondering if it was the same way at asa. I guess what I really want to know is whats the schedule/pay of the last 10 guys who aren't on reserve.

 

[OCP]

I understand how pbs works. If you were at CO on the 757 the most junior pbs awards, which I call a line once its been awarded, have min days off and will have a credit of ~50 hours but will be paid 75 hours, due to incredibly unproductive trips that no one else wants. I was wondering if it was the same way at asa. I guess what I really want to know is whats the schedule/pay of the last 10 guys who aren't on reserve.

We don't know yet. This is the first month it will actually be live. Also its still going to be F'd up because they built pairings based on having normal lines just in case PBS didn't go live. We'll know what it looks like on the 21st (I think)
But from a guy who has been on reserve for over 3.5 years, I'll gladly take a 50 hr line and still get paid for 75, as long as I know when I start and when I finish and don't have to talk to scheduling.

 

[Freebrd]

I'll gladly take a 50 hr line and still get paid for 75,.

Won't you get a 75 hour line w/ PBS? It keeps adding crap until you meet that 75 threshold. That's one of the purposes of PBS, spread the flying out and have yo ass flying to get quarantee right?

 

[OCP]

Won't you get a 75 hour line w/ PBS? It keeps adding crap until you meet that 75 threshold. That's one of the purposes of PBS, spread the flying out and have yo ass flying to get quarantee right?

It will only build the credit up to your preference. So if I set 60 hrs, the most it can build to is 75, but it will stop as soon as it meets the 60hrs. If all it has left at 58 hrs is a 20 hr 4 day then you'll get that. If it has a 2hr day line, then you'll get that.

 

[Plainsman]

Union says company screwed us and they are now changing the pairings. This is off alpa board. Anyone have any information. The three days did suck. I sure hope expressjet is watching this.

 

[HoserASA]

Hats off to our union Reps for calling out the company on this. The ALAP message states this is for the CRJ200 only. These were some very low valued crappy pairings that were very inconsistent with past pairings. The pairings will be redone so make sure you basically erase or compare what you've done so far with the new pairings/bid coming out. It'll take a few days for the company to redo the pairings and more info will be out in a few days.

Again thanks to our ASA ALPA Reps for doing this. Greatly appreciated.

Hoser
ROLL TIDE!
GB Packers!

 

[mtsupilot]

The pilots at ASA are to blame. I begged every Captain and FO I came into contact with to VOTE NO!!!!! It didn't just barely pass either. Now we are all hosed and the people who voted YES are complaining the loudest...

 

[asayankee]

You mean the company managed to screw this up too! I can't believe it!!! (huge sarcasm). They mess up line bidding regularly and we've been doing that for many, many years. This will get much worse before it gets better....

 

[crj567]

the pilots at asa are to blame. I begged every captain and fo i came into contact with to vote no!!!!! It didn't just barely pass either. Now we are all hosed and the people who voted yes are complaining the loudest...

ditto!

 

[centralpilot]

It will only build the credit up to your preference. So if I set 60 hrs, the most it can build to is 75, but it will stop as soon as it meets the 60hrs.

That is not entirely true. You can target 60, but you won't get a schedule with anything less than the bottom of the credit window. The company TLV for February (CRJ ATL) is 85 and the credit window minimum is 75 (max 105). I don't foresee the credit window being low enough to get a complete schedule at 60 hours very often.

 

[Medeco]

would someone please give me a rational ADULT LEVEL argument as to why we are not in a good position right now?

The company has spent $$$$ on this PBS, and they need it.

We as employees want our company to thrive and succeed.

We have a chance now that we did not have before the XJT buyout to negotiate a new contract in a semi expedited fashion, where we hold the cards on PBS.

We can now find out what does not work in the current PBS agreement and get that fixed in stone due simply to the fact that XJT pilots will not vote for PBS if they know its a turd.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[79%N1]

You are right, but the issue can go to artibration if it holds up a JCBA. Since it is already in place at ASA it MAY be hard to get the Geenie back in the bottle. We can fix whats broke and improve the current agreement. I would like to see any time picked up during vacation be added to your min rather than the way ASA has it now, which nullifies that option. Also, we can and need to gain more control over pairing construction to ensure more productive trips. I don't think the XJT pilots can just vote it down like they are threatening. It would go to an arbitrator. It did last time when ASA was in sec 6 negotiations and management wanted to open back up the scheduling section to include PBS then. The arbitrator sided with ALPA and said it was already TA'd and could not be included. The opposite may happen in this case.

 

[777forever]

Looks like only the 200 pairing suck. There are absolutely no more long flights on the ATL 200. The 200 is truly the new ATR. Do 5 leg days even exist anymore on the 700/900? I predict a senior exodus to the 700/900 on the next vacancy bid.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

hopefully more mainline aircraft are replacing the 900s flights.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Bring back the Bro, and send me and it to Cali

 

[Plainsman]

Not a peep out of the company on any of this. Why is that? Seems to be a pretty big deal to move bidding 3 days back. I am beginning to think these guys are having touble swallowing their big horse pill, ie merging companies and weather. This place is being run thin. I am through going out of my way to help. Hire some people!!!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Not a peep out of the company on any of this. Why is that? Seems to be a pretty big deal to move bidding 3 days back. I am beginning to think these guys are having touble swallowing their big horse pill, ie merging companies and weather. This place is being run thin. I am through going out of my way to help. Hire some people!!!

I been there for months man.

 

[79%N1]

Not a peep out of the company on any of this. Why is that? Seems to be a pretty big deal to move bidding 3 days back. I am beginning to think these guys are having touble swallowing their big horse pill, ie merging companies and weather. This place is being run thin. I am through going out of my way to help. Hire some people!!!

And not only hire some pilots and FAs. Hire some damn schedulers, crew planners, crew pay auditors, and some weekend damn janitors!!!!

 

[SPDBRD747400]

When does the MEM and/or DTW bases open?

 

[Medeco]

You are right, but the issue can go to artibration if it holds up a JCBA. Since it is already in place at ASA it MAY be hard to get the Geenie back in the bottle. We can fix whats broke and improve the current agreement. I would like to see any time picked up during vacation be added to your min rather than the way ASA has it now, which nullifies that option. Also, we can and need to gain more control over pairing construction to ensure more productive trips. I don't think the XJT pilots can just vote it down like they are threatening. It would go to an arbitrator. It did last time when ASA was in sec 6 negotiations and management wanted to open back up the scheduling section to include PBS then. The arbitrator sided with ALPA and said it was already TA'd and could not be included. The opposite may happen in this case.

Ok fair enough. Just to be clear though, each MEC agrees, then we vote if they agree. If they dont we go to arbitration. If we all vote and reject, then the company might play ball.


They need this work.


King Tutt, finally addressed the pairing goof.

 

[shamrock]

King Tutt, finally addressed the pairing goof.

[FONT=’Arial’]We are disappointed with our initial bid results, and I assure you that we will make the necessary adjustments to produce mutually satisfactory lines for February and beyond. The results of our mock bids did not indicate that we would have the pairing issues that we’re currently encountering, but as we move forward with the PrefBid product, we will regularly evaluate the software and proactively make adjustments.[/FONT]

[FONT=’Arial’]We are working closely with ALPA to revise the Atlanta CRJ200 pairings for February and will communicate a revised bidding timeline once it has been finalized. Please see the story on the Flight Ops home page for more details.

I want to apologize for the inconvenience this will cause and thank you for your patience as we work to improve your February schedules.[/FONT]

 

[blesko]

Hope you guys are emailing our(the companies) reps, it's the only way it's gonna be considered in the JCBA. I'm cool with the PBS concept but the pairings have to have a min credit of some sort; 3day-16, 4day-18, wheter it's virtual or not I could care less, but to work five days because the pairings suck is not cool.

Guys, I hate to be the resident d*bag here, but see I (and many others) told you so. We could have receive MUCH more than we got with the PBS agreement. Never accept the first anything, contract or otherwise. Now we're stuck with it and with any luck from out xjet family, we'll find a way to work through this.

 

[blesko]

And if you guys are still on standard/conventional training cycles, they also have to get ganked offline to do the additional PC.

That is, if you guys train over a trip or on days off, or it's the pilot's option.

Uhhhh....no, F/O's are on the same traning schedule as the captains. PC every 6 months and loft every 12 months regardless of seat.

 

[Nevets]

You are right, but the issue can go to artibration if it holds up a JCBA. Since it is already in place at ASA it MAY be hard to get the Geenie back in the bottle. We can fix whats broke and improve the current agreement. I would like to see any time picked up during vacation be added to your min rather than the way ASA has it now, which nullifies that option. Also, we can and need to gain more control over pairing construction to ensure more productive trips. I don't think the XJT pilots can just vote it down like they are threatening. It would go to an arbitrator. It did last time when ASA was in sec 6 negotiations and management wanted to open back up the scheduling section to include PBS then. The arbitrator sided with ALPA and said it was already TA'd and could not be included. The opposite may happen in this case.

Ok I must have missed it so can point me where it says we go to arbitration if we dont agree? Also, I didn't know you guys went to arbitration on your last negotiations. Are you sure your not getting it mixed up with mediation? That is a big difference.