ASA Negotiations

[D'Angelo]

No, that is NOT correct. If you are blocked with a 80 hour line, and fly every leg underblock, for a total of 10 hours under, will you paycheck be 80 hours? NO, IT WILL BE 85 hours. Because underblock is paid on a leg by leg basis. Premium pay helps every pilot at this company, unless they fly EVERY leg overblock. You need to learn how it works before you decide to get rid of it.

'

Its absolutely ridiculous to ask for 85 hours if you worked 80 hours. You should be paid what you block straight up.. This goes for all airlines. The exception being nappers. They should get guarantee since everyone is guaranteed that. Its like a salary so to speak. However they should not be getting high pay for working the least of everyone.

 

[atrdriver]

'

Its absolutely ridiculous to ask for 85 hours if you worked 80 hours. You should be paid what you block straight up.. This goes for all airlines. The exception being nappers. They should get guarantee since everyone is guaranteed that. Its like a salary so to speak. However they should not be getting high pay for working the least of everyone.

Which part of keep your comments directed at your own pathetic existence was unclear? Premium pay is an incentive for the pilots to get back on schedule after other factors get them behind. Take it away and the schedule goes with it.

 

[Diesel]

I may speak the same tune but so do you guys. How many times can you scream retro pay, hold that line, we are tards, full pay til the last day blah blah blah... At least im saying something new and refreshing.

I'll scream retro pay all day. And go cash my 40k retro check.

You sir are a turd.

Good day

 

[ohplease!]

No, that is NOT correct. If you are blocked with a 80 hour line, and fly every leg underblock, for a total of 10 hours under, will you paycheck be 80 hours? NO, IT WILL BE 85 hours. Because underblock is paid on a leg by leg basis. Premium pay helps every pilot at this company, unless they fly EVERY leg overblock. You need to learn how it works before you decide to get rid of it.

Not a chance in hell of getting 10hours of underblock on an RJ line.

 

[legalalien]

Over the last year I have averaged just over 6 hours underblock per month with a high of about 8.5. The lowest month was just over 3, but that was a vacation month.

I bid for days off so my lines are usually blocked at about 75 hours or less if I get the conflicts right! (and I am a line holder).

Next month my line (like most) is blocked at 75 hours and change. I would say that I have much more chance of 6 or 7 hours underblock than I do have of getting 6 or 7 hours overblock.

Before you comment I should also say that when the FO says to me on the first day of the month "what do you want me to call the time?" I tell them to do it by the contract. Look at the time when we start moving and that is the out time, we are in when we block in at the destination.

So losing premium pay would be about a 7.5% paycut for me over the year.

 

[ohplease!]

"what do you want me to call the time?" I tell them to do it by the contract. Look at the time when we start moving and that is the out time, we are in when we block in at the destination.

So losing premium pay would be about a 7.5% paycut for me over the year.

its door closed

 

[FL990]

Maybe Im not understanding something but why is underblock such a big deal? The only people it effects are nap lines and relief/reserve. That makes up a very small part of the pilot group, why not focus on something better? Not to mention it shouldnt be more than a few hours a month, a 20 cent pay raise should make the differnce.

You are way way off...

let me give you an illustration and this will change your mind...

Current contract: lets say you are blocked at 85 hours for the month...now, keep in mind this is just an illustration to show what they are wanting to do

If you fly 4 legs in a day...each blocked at 1 hour... you fly the first 3 in 45 minutes each...(strong tailwind) and the last takes you 1 hr 45 min..under our current contract, you get paid 4 hrs 45min for the day. this is because the underblock is on a leg by leg basis...ie..premium can never hurt you.


Take this same example and apply the companies proposal for the next contract...you would get paid only 4 hrs. you would lose 45 minutes worth of pay you would have gotten because there is no premium to protect you.


Premium not a big deal???? it is now!

 

[atrdriver]

Not a chance in hell of getting 10hours of underblock on an RJ line.

I average just over 7.5 hours a month.

 

[atrdriver]

its door closed

That's not what the contract says. If you are calling time when the door closes you are covering up for the problems on the ramp. But that's right, you are a company man, and don't care what our contract says.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

There is no correlation between pilot working agreement pilot pay times and the times reported to the DOT.

 

[ohplease!]

That's not what the contract says. If you are calling time when the door closes you are covering up for the problems on the ramp. But that's right, you are a company man, and don't care what our contract says.

where in the contract does it define out time as A/C movement?

 

[D'Angelo]

When the door closes thats when your out. Pilots love to talk about how nothing is their fault. Well if ramp makes you hold 5 minutes but you were ready to push on time guess what thats an on time departure. Besides airlines get too worried about their precious "zero tolerance" policy for departures. Passengers would rather leave 5 minutes late and still get to the destination on time than leave right on the minute but sit at the taxiway for an hour while waiting for flow.

 

[RJsAllAround]

On a separate note, I find it kind of interesting that no one has mentioned the picketing ALPA secretaries outside the G.O. who, by the way, make over $50,000 per year! Glad to know 2% out of every paycheck goes to a good cause...maybe that's why no news has come out of ALPA lately - they're all outside walking in circles.

 

[ohplease!]

When the door closes thats when your out. Pilots love to talk about how nothing is their fault. Well if ramp makes you hold 5 minutes but you were ready to push on time guess what thats an on time departure. Besides airlines get too worried about their precious "zero tolerance" policy for departures. Passengers would rather leave 5 minutes late and still get to the destination on time than leave right on the minute but sit at the taxiway for an hour while waiting for flow.

Dude, STFU! damnit, you're annoying.

 

[legalalien]

where in the contract does it define out time as A/C movement?

Oh Please,

Perhaps you should read your own contract, specifically definitions 2.E defines block to block. That is what we are paid on.

I also seem to remember a discussion on the ALPA boards about this when the company went to the departure coordinators putting in the times. It was pointed out then that we should still enter the time in the can as when we start moving.

LegalAlien
ATL CR2 CAP.

 

[ohplease!]

Oh Please,

Perhaps you should read your own contract, specifically definitions 2.E defines block to block. That is what we are paid on.

I also seem to remember a discussion on the ALPA boards about this when the company went to the departure coordinators putting in the times. It was pointed out then that we should still enter the time in the can as when we start moving.

LegalAlien
ATL CR2 CAP.

thank you for the answer, I stand corrected. Call it that way if you like, I still think premium pay is nothing to worry about losing. Just my opinion.

 

[jehtplane]

Oh Please,

Perhaps you should read your own contract, specifically definitions 2.E defines block to block. That is what we are paid on.

I also seem to remember a discussion on the ALPA boards about this when the company went to the departure coordinators putting in the times. It was pointed out then that we should still enter the time in the can as when we start moving.

LegalAlien
ATL CR2 CAP.

Block out is door closed per the SP's

 

[FL990]

thank you for the answer, I stand corrected. Call it that way if you like, I still think premium pay is nothing to worry about losing. Just my opinion.

look at your last pay stub at the number next to underblock...cause if we lose premium, that is what you would have lost under that paycheck.

It would equate to probably over 50hrs per year in pay...it IS something to concern yourself with

 

[legalalien]

Block out is door closed per the SP's

So in your world the company can change the contract at will just by putting it in the SP's?

We are paid in the manner specified in the contract not by how the company puts things in the SP's.

The block out you refer to in the SP's is for reporting to the DOT/Delta not for our pay

 

[legalalien]

thank you for the answer, I stand corrected. Call it that way if you like, I still think premium pay is nothing to worry about losing. Just my opinion.

It's not a case of calling it as I like, it is calling it as required by the contract. A contract that the company doesn't seem to like following. Perhaps you think that the company can change the contract at will.

I can only assume that you did not understand the example I gave as premium pay not being worth worrying about. You don't think that I should be worried about losing 6 or so hours pay per month?

 

[Airboss]

Intl Pay

Maybe I am alone on this, but I feel that we should get International compensation.
I feel that our certificates are more on the line and the difficulty of the flight is increased anytime we fly outside the lower 48 states.
Has Alpa discussed this?

 

[jehtplane]

So in your world the company can change the contract at will just by putting it in the SP's?

We are paid in the manner specified in the contract not by how the company puts things in the SP's.

The block out you refer to in the SP's is for reporting to the DOT/Delta not for our pay

ever heard of over block

 

[ohplease!]

It's not a case of calling it as I like, it is calling it as required by the contract. A contract that the company doesn't seem to like following. Perhaps you think that the company can change the contract at will.

I can only assume that you did not understand the example I gave as premium pay not being worth worrying about. You don't think that I should be worried about losing 6 or so hours pay per month?

I don't care if we keep premium or not. It does me no good.

 

[ohplease!]

ever heard of over block

ditto...

 

[ohplease!]

Maybe I am alone on this, but I feel that we should get International compensation.
I feel that our certificates are more on the line and the difficulty of the flight is increased anytime we fly outside the lower 48 states.
Has Alpa discussed this?

not a bad idea.

 

[FL990]

Block out is door closed per the SP's

show us in the FOM where it says that....To my knowledge, the word OUT is not defined..

On page 10 - 3.5 paragraph 15...it just says to "Enter OUT, OFF, ON and IN times in Zulu time to the nearest minute." etc etc

Nowhere does it define OUT as "door closed"

 

[legalalien]

ever heard of over block

Ever heard of reading the posts?

As I said above I am normally blocked at around 75 hours. By following the contract I average 6 hours of underblock added on top of guarantee. With the high block times we have there is no way I would be flying more than 6 hours overblock.

I can't believe that anyone makes much overblock. Our block times are set high enough to improve on time arrivals that flying anything close to profile will result in premium pay.

Besides if we can't even follow the contract where it relates to how we are paid what chance do we have of the compamy ever following the contract.

 

[goodto50meters]

nappers shouldnt be getting premium pay. They work 30-40 hours/month for christsake!!!!! Guarantee is more than fair for that amount of work. Retro pay is also a ridiculous demand. It gets old watching unions try to bring good airlines down.

Moron....your bus is leaving.

Oh yeah and the RAA says your bonus check is in the mail for your work in spreading their bilge on this board.

Wipe your ass too

 

[jehtplane]

show us in the FOM where it says that....To my knowledge, the word OUT is not defined..

On page 10 - 3.5 paragraph 15...it just says to "Enter OUT, OFF, ON and IN times in Zulu time to the nearest minute." etc etc

Nowhere does it define OUT as "door closed"

My bad not Sp's you would actually have to go through hot spot bulletins from about 4 years ago. It was put out by Nelson

 

[jehtplane]

Ever heard of reading the posts?

As I said above I am normally blocked at around 75 hours. By following the contract I average 6 hours of underblock added on top of guarantee. With the high block times we have there is no way I would be flying more than 6 hours overblock.

I can't believe that anyone makes much overblock. Our block times are set high enough to improve on time arrivals that flying anything close to profile will result in premium pay.

Besides if we can't even follow the contract where it relates to how we are paid what chance do we have of the compamy ever following the contract.

Are you based in ATL? Shut the door block out and let the circus begin, waiting for headsets, or wing walkers, or standby sally in the tower, or late bags. are you new?