ASA Negotiations Suspended Indefinitely

[CFIT]

Who's man are you?

I do condone violence every chance I get and love it.

Well Captain Starfish, maybe you should walk right up to Jerry and let him know exactly how you feel. I'm sure that will help all us SkyWest types garner more support for you.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What ultimately will get you an agreement is your collective resolve; not the NMB or ALPA.

Make up your minds about your key positions. You're making the task of your CNC virtually impossible. They cannot get a contract or an impasse unless you are solidly behind their positions at the table.

Excellent post, thanks for your wisdom.

 

[SSDD]

I know I'm going to be called all kinds of names, but here it is. A number of you have brought up the fact that Skywest is profitable, and you want part of that, but here's the thing, part of the Skywest contract with DL states that Skywest has to have the second lowest costs of any DCI. If they can't accomplish that, the multi year contract is cancelled, period! So you can be profitable today, and be bankrupt next month.

I can guarantee you that Jerry Atkin will let you guys shutdown ASA before he lets that happen. If he has to sacrifice part of the company to save the rest, you can bet that he will.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The mediator recessed negotiations becasue the company stopped negotiating. Not the union. We have cut 8% or more off the rate increase of the original proposal and there is more to give in the process. The company gave 1% from their original proposal and has said there is nothing more to give. I call BS on that. The mediator see's ALPA giving a chunk at a time and the company not negotiating when its their turn to come off on their proposal. He then recessed both sides until the difference is lessened. Knowing full well that the ball is in the companies court. He called BS too.

So tell me how the company can't see they are getting a great ratio of cuts in negotiations?????? 8% to 1%.....So if you keep that ratio going it would be approx. a 3% raise for the 50 and ATR, a 2% cut for the 70 and that is unacceptable? I think not. That would keep us competitive, it may bring the profit margin down to SKW levels, but still accomodate growth.

GoAround, thanks for the update. I understand the percentage of give, but again I don't believe it is that simple. Allow me to use an example. As a disclaimer, this is only an example to illustrate a point.

Let's say the union starts by asking for $1000 per hour for the 70 seater. The company starts with $80. After numerous bargaining sessions, the company has moved to $90, and ALPA has moved to $500 per hour. In terms of movement, the company has moved about 11% and ALPA has moved 50%. In this example (once again for illustration purposes only), the union has moved much further than the company has. However that is only because, in this case, ALPA started further away from the industry standard. The percentage of movement is not as relevent as how far each side is from the industry standard. As I see it, the 70 seat rates currently being offered by the company are higher than the current SKYW rates and much higher than the current Northwest 78 seat rates. Am I missing something here?

Thanks again for the update.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That "standard" you speak of never goes north if pilot groups don't push that standard higher.

And what happens when pilot groups push that standard north and are rewarded with losing flying to other ALPA groups? I agree with you in a perfect world, but many of our pilot groups that push that standard are punished with shrinking and in some cases shutting down as the flying shifts. I know you understand there is a problem, as you were a member of the fee-for departure task force, and I know ALPA understands this is a problem. You can't expect people to push that standard north if it doesn't reward them personally. People aren't going to push that standard for other people.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

And what happens when pilot groups push that standard north and are rewarded with losing flying to other ALPA groups? I agree with you in a perfect world, but many of our pilot groups that push that standard are punished with shrinking and in some cases shutting down as the flying shifts. I know you understand there is a problem, as you were a member of the fee-for departure task force, and I know ALPA understands this is a problem. You can't expect people to push that standard north if it doesn't reward them personally. People aren't going to push that standard for other people.

Well if that is the case, then let's just throw our hands in the air and give up...maybe even give some back, because then we can all get growth under your hyperbole. But I know what you wrote is just that - hyperbole. We don't live in a perfect world but we also don't live in a world where everyone should cave to gain growth since pilot costs aren't necessarily the driver for a company's growth (and shouldn't be). At the very minimum, ASA pilots should be striving to push the average up, if not be at the top of the industry. But the ASA pilots already know that...the question is "how?" Many are feeling frustrated just the way the XJT pilots felt back in the summer of 2004 when they were put on ice by the NMB.

-Neal

 

[JoeMerchant]

Industry standard? Who wants industry standard? I want above standard!
How do you ever expect to raise the rates if everyone is standard? Did you
guys fail math in high school or what? If they want to transfer assets away
from ASA, then by all means, have at it. But I'm not caving on pay rates.

I agree 601, I WANT above industry standard also. There are a lot of things I WANT. If you go to ALPA's negotiating training, they actually lecture on understanding the difference between "WANTS" and "NEEDS". There is a huge difference.

The fact is, there are several aspects of our current 8 year old agreement that are STILL INDUSTRY LEADING. Our 70 seat rates, instructor section, cancellation pay and underblock are currently industry leading. In fact our 70 seat rates are now better than Northwests.

I want more money and more time off just as much as you do, but that does need to be tempered with the current industry situation.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well if that is the case, then let's just throw our hands in the air and give up...maybe even give some back, because then we can all get growth under your hyperbole. But I know what you wrote is just that - hyperbole.
-Neal

Hyperbole? No it was reality. Name me just one portfolio carrier that has had an industry leading contract and hasn't lost out to cheaper providers. If you want Hyperbole, just puruse the pages of ALPA's magazine. You will see numerous examples of it.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Here's the deal folks. Management doesn't give a rats ass about pilots because they're in the business of making money for the share holders and themselves. Pilots are just a tool (no pun intended) in that process. In any business, payroll is perhaps the most expensive part of it next to capital assets. Since you can't exactly fly without planes, you can cut where you know the people are powerless to bitch. That's why pilots (and not just ASA) are getting the fine stiffy up the exhaust pipe. You can dress it up any which way you like, but at the end of the day, it's about the rich getting richer, the poor living off the system, and the working class paying for it all. Welcome to the middle class folks.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Hyperbole? No it was reality. Name me just one portfolio carrier that has had an industry leading contract and hasn't lost out to cheaper providers. If you want Hyperbole, just puruse the pages of ALPA's magazine. You will see numerous examples of it.

Well there is technically only going to be 1 "industry leading" contract. That said, I will use Air Wisconsin and American Eagle as an example. AWAC has a great contract and they just got a nice bump in rates due to their industry metric system. Their rules are second to none and actually include a real rig system. American Eagle has some of the highest costs in the industry due to their pilot group longevity yet they still are growing. Lastly, XJT hasn't furloughed anyone nor do I expect them to...nor has XJT's management approached its pilots for any form of concessions. Heck, I see an aircraft order on the horizon perhaps.

-Neal