ASA Negotiations Suspended Indefinitely

[Crash Pad]

High low on how screwed we are?

 

[79%N1]

Well, thats what I tried to point out yesterday! Guys want to stomp, and pound their chest, and hold their breath because we deserve a big raise, dammit!!! Based on what? All you can base it on is what others make who do what you do. We can get our big raises, and then we can go bye bye! Guys, JetBlue, Airtran and Southwest make more money. Go work there. I would, if I could upgrade and get the PIC time. Why on earth did our CNC not walk in the door with a SKYW contract, ask for that with a freeze on our 700 pay is beyond me. It makes no sense!!!!!!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

High low on how screwed we are?

Crash, we aren't screwed - ALPA says we aren't.

 

[Crash Pad]

Sorry Joe, forgot, my MEC was speaking for me.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, thats what I tried to point out yesterday! Guys want to stomp, and pound their chest, and hold their breath because we deserve a big raise, dammit!!! Based on what? All you can base it on is what others make who do what you do. We can get our big raises, and then we can go bye bye! Guys, JetBlue, Airtran and Southwest make more money. Go work there. I would, if I could upgrade and get the PIC time. Why on earth did our CNC not walk in the door with a SKYW contract, ask for that with a freeze on our 700 pay is beyond me. It makes no sense!!!!!!!

Well, that's what I've been trying to point out for several years. ALPA is the one who invented pattern bargaining, and it works both ways. I would encourage all of you to start questioning your ALPA leadership - they are playing with fire and they have been making serious tactical errors for years. There intentions may be great, but as they say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Turkey Shoot, you are correct. Maybe you can help enlighten some of our die-hard ALPA flag wavers. Trans States has a worse contract than what we have already agreed to, and you are losing flying to an alter-ego subsidiary. Some of our guys don't think it can happen. ALPA isn't nearly as strong as it thinks it is.

I keep trying to make this point. Nobody wants to hear this though. It sucks but it's what it is. The TSA guys stood their ground. Great, whats it got us so far? Guys on furlough? No growth? More jets for Ho Jet? (Screw HoJet)

ALPA Die Hards..... Hear this! ALPA doesn't hold the winning hand. Your MEC is going have you guys walking to the soup line. Better take a hard look around the industry right now. The mighty ALPA can't cause the market to change in your favor regardless of how much crap they feed you at the meetings.

 

[Sinca3]

As someone who was involved in the negotiating of our current contract and who has negotiated in front of the NMB and who has witnessed the NMB "parking us" during the last negotiations, I would venture to say that ALPA is asking for too much based on the current industry standard.

John,
I sure wish you would heed your own advice sometimes!
1.....We ARE NOT PARKED. We have been suspend by the NMB which allows for the sides to negotiate whenever they decide where as being parked wouldn't allow any negotiations
2.....We are SUSPENDED maybe just maybe b/c the 2 sides...BOTH sides are too far apart. Negotiations are a game where the 2 sides meet in an agreeable middle. I haven't seen anywhere that the company has tried to meet anywhere in the middle.
You can pound your chest or just lurk away and cry for all I care but we aren't negotiating any more through the NMB b/c they are going to assess the situation and make a decision which way to proceed.

 

[atrdriver]

For all the FO's that want that growth sooooooo bad so they can upgrade, look at what the company is proposing for pay. For 50 seat and ATR NO INCREASE for FO's, and for the 70 seater a 13% PAYCUT for FO's. So do you really want the MEC to bend over and take what they are proposing? Considering that CMR took cuts for growth and didn't get it? What happens when you cuys take that paycut, or no raise, and we don't get the growth anyway? And then you get to live on those great wages for another 8 years. Is that really what you want?

 

[JoeMerchant]

John,
I sure wish you would heed your own advice sometimes!
1.....We ARE NOT PARKED. We have been suspend by the NMB which allows for the sides to negotiate whenever they decide where as being parked wouldn't allow any negotiations
2.....We are SUSPENDED maybe just maybe b/c the 2 sides...BOTH sides are too far apart. Negotiations are a game where the 2 sides meet in an agreeable middle. I haven't seen anywhere that the company has tried to meet anywhere in the middle.
You can pound your chest or just lurk away and cry for all I care but we aren't negotiating any more through the NMB b/c they are going to assess the situation and make a decision which way to proceed.

Sinca3, I have dealt personally with the NMB, have you? Recessed, suspended, and "parked" are all the same. We were "recessed", "suspended", and "parked" in 1998. I was there! We put an ALPA spin on it just as I suspect you will, but in the end we are still "parked". When are some of you going to start admitting that ALPA has FAILED. Put down the Herndon KoolAid.

 

[JoeMerchant]

For all the FO's that want that growth sooooooo bad so they can upgrade, look at what the company is proposing for pay. For 50 seat and ATR NO INCREASE for FO's, and for the 70 seater a 13% PAYCUT for FO's. So do you really want the MEC to bend over and take what they are proposing? Considering that CMR took cuts for growth and didn't get it? What happens when you cuys take that paycut, or no raise, and we don't get the growth anyway? And then you get to live on those great wages for another 8 years. Is that really what you want?

So what do you propose ATRDriver? Maybe we should ask for $60 per hour for FOs. After all they may be FOs for a long time. What drives payrates ATRDriver? Is it what you want, what is "fair", or what the industry standard is? If it is the industry standard, maybe you should start asking ALPA how the industry standard degraded to this point.