ASA Merger Committee

[cybourg10]

Just curious if anyone else has heard we are ramping up to hire the Express Jet furloughs into the ASA system? From what I've heard, we're getting an indoc program in place to train 170ish pilots. This is what my intel says, anyway. No interviewing, just training.

This is correct.

 

[the palm]

I am hearing similar rumors, but I also know who killed JFK (Sr. and Jr.).

 

[sayrejm]

SH said in the crew lounge that "if we were to hire" it would be from the xjet furloughs. I personally think this will happen this Fall. Also, I think that if we did, it must mean management is very confident that the merger will go off without any problems otherwise we would be sitting on pilots that had no interview from a company that we never merged with?? That just sounds funny but what do I know, I have been wrong before.

 

[crj567]

Until computers and computer modeling came around, it wasn't as easy to tell what is most efficient for the whole group.

You really are a complete mgmt wanna-be-toadie, aren't you? Even they are smart enough to see what a complete dumbass bastard they are dealing with! I sure wouldn't get my hopes up about moving up the ol' corporate ladder if I were you.

-Computer modeling? Really? You couldn't come up with anything better!??!

-Would you like to give it another try--or do you really think we are all so completely brain-dead as to buy something so lame?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You really are a complete mgmt wanna-be-toadie, aren't you? Even they are smart enough to see what a complete dumbass bastard they are dealing with! I sure wouldn't get my hopes up about moving up the ol' corporate ladder if I were you.

-Computer modeling? Really? You couldn't come up with anything better!??!

-Would you like to give it another try--or do you really think we are all so completely brain-dead as to buy something so lame?

I think that if you don't understand that computers have made many industries more efficient, including ours you have no business in an aircraft.

I also think that if you're not smart enough to understand the difference between your schedule's hour efficiency and the overall schedule's manpower efficiency, you aren't worth wasting time on. There is a reason that 4 days came back with a vengence when we became short staffed. A schedule with a ton of 4 days requires fewer crew members. Plain and simple. This isn't rocket science.

 

[the palm]

This thread has taken a life of its own....what was the original topic again? Actually, its no different than every other thread on here. Carry on.

 

[buscap]

SH said in the crew lounge that "if we were to hire" it would be from the xjet furloughs. I personally think this will happen this Fall. Also, I think that if we did, it must mean management is very confident that the merger will go off without any problems otherwise we would be sitting on pilots that had no interview from a company that we never merged with?? That just sounds funny but what do I know, I have been wrong before.

The new focus of this thread is SAYREJM's avatar!!!

Holy crap!!

War Eagle and all that sheeeet!!!

 

[zawillif]

Computer modeling? Really? You couldn't come up with anything better!??!

Whoa whoa whoa . . . . . . ASA has computers???

 

[Plainsman]

If we merge does that mean we will get new union leadership? Some who don't bend over so easy for Brad would be nice.

 

[COOPERVANE]

the new focus of this thread is sayrejm's avatar!!!

Holy crap!!

War eagle and all that sheeeet!!!

agreed!!

 

[crj567]

I think that if you don't understand that computers have made many industries more efficient, including ours you have no business in an aircraft.

I also think that if you're not smart enough to understand the difference between your schedule's hour efficiency and the overall schedule's manpower efficiency, you aren't worth wasting time on. There is a reason that 4 days came back with a vengence when we became short staffed. A schedule with a ton of 4 days requires fewer crew members. Plain and simple. This isn't rocket science.

Giving it another shot, Chief?

You really, really must be dense if you think computers have just now become capable of computing this sort of thing.... In my estimation a standard PC from 1985 with the most basic spreadsheet could have performed the necessary calculations-and even the cavemen back then knew this idea was B.S.

Before this magical computer and all its fancy-dancy NASA processors arrived, there were accountants who easily could have produced the necessary cost models-these people have been around far, far longer than the airplane.

-So, you really must be a complete retard if you are not smart enough to spot the error in your logic by now...

-Let me help you: Before the advent of flush toilets, no member of the human race ever took a dump-did they? Something starting to smell fishy in New Brunswick? Are you staring to see some parallels? Same exact logic you have used to try and impress us all here.

-Just follow that line of reasoning through, and maybe you will be able to see what a complete dumbass you look like.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Giving it another shot, Chief?

You really, really must be dense if you think computers have just now become capable of computing this sort of thing.... In my estimation a standard PC from 1985 with the most basic spreadsheet could have performed the necessary calculations-and even the cavemen back then knew this idea was B.S.

Before this magical computer and all its fancy-dancy NASA processors arrived, there were accountants who easily could have produced the necessary cost models-these people have been around far, far longer than the airplane.

-So, you really must be a complete retard if you are not smart enough to spot the error in your logic by now...

-Let me help you: Before the advent of flush toilets, no member of the human race ever took a dump-did they? Something starting to smell fishy in New Brunswick? Are you staring to see some parallels? Same exact logic you have used to try and impress us all here.

-Just follow that line of reasoning through, and maybe you will be able to see what a complete dumbass you look like.

Ok, you have proven two things to us all:

1. You're an idiot. No surprise there.

2. You haven't been at ASA very long, and have no clue how far things have come in the IT side of the company since SkyWest purchased us.

You do realize that there was exactly one computer in the building as recently as 1997, right? Until 2006 the schedules were built more or less by hand. There was a lot of room for efficiencies brought by more advanced software.

The only person who has shown their lack of understanding is you.

 

[the palm]

I'm no fan of ASA management, but I gotta call it like I see it. crj567 is a dooooooosh!!!!

 

[crj567]

Ok, you have proven two things to us all:

1. You're an idiot. No surprise there.

2. You haven't been at ASA very long, and have no clue how far things have come in the IT side of the company since SkyWest purchased us.

You do realize that there was exactly one computer in the building as recently as 1997, right? Until 2006 the schedules were built more or less by hand. There was a lot of room for efficiencies brought by more advanced software.

The only person who has shown their lack of understanding is you.

GOSH-

I could have SWORN Delta Had computers when they owned us... Damn-I think I may have even seen a couple of those crazy high-tech things sitting around the lounge as far back as that time!

-You really are not too bright. Are you sure you didn't steal daddy's password and come here to try and play "big boy pilot" with all his friends? You just cannot be an adult of even low-average intelligence if you actually buy that stupid load.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

GOSH-

I could have SWORN Delta Had computers when they owned us... Damn-I think I may have even seen a couple of those crazy high-tech things sitting around the lounge as far back as that time!

-You really are not too bright. Are you sure you didn't steal daddy's password and come here to try and play "big boy pilot" with all his friends? You just cannot be an adult of even low-average intelligence if you actually buy that stupid load.

I've covered my position. If you want to have a real discussion about this, PM me. We didn't get computers throughout the company until Delta purchased us. The software to optimize the schedules was purchased in 2006. I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know WTF they are talking about any more.

 

[crj567]

I've covered my position. If you want to have a real discussion about this, PM me. We didn't get computers throughout the company until Delta purchased us. The software to optimize the schedules was purchased in 2006. I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know WTF they are talking about any more.

I am not going to argue with anyone who does know WTF a bad schedule is-you don't crawl out from the G.O. long enough to fly the kind of crap we do. In fact-if you are who I suspect you are, you haven't flown an actual schedule for more than a month at a time in the last 15 years.

Plus-you are too retarded to understand the dynamics of the situation. What is the point in wasting my time with such a tool?

-Go and write some more pilot-bashing letters to Aviation Week and USA Today. Make sure you do your best to destroy our profession a little more.

 

[No Delay]

Well, I won't join the "computer" argument.

My thoughts are so what! I don't care if 4 day trips are more efficient for the company. And I don't want my union reps caring what is efficient for the company! I want them to care about what is efficient for me.

I am sure it would be efficient for the company if we all worked for free. Who's in?


Now, I know there has to be a balance. But I would bet there is not a huge difference in the cost of a 16 hr. 4 day and a 20 hr. 3 day. When you factor in hotel cost, per diem cost, paying pilots min day vs paying pilots to fly. Especially if you could measure the fuel expense of a happy pilot vs a pissed off pilot.

The only explanation I have ever seen made compared something like a 13 hr 4 day to something like a 10 hr 3 day. I want to see some real numbers on a well built 3 day.

I believe the difference will not be that much. And that small amount is just the cost of doing business.

 

[rjacobs]

Well, I won't join the "computer" argument.

My thoughts are so what! I don't care if 4 day trips are more efficient for the company. And I don't want my union reps caring what is efficient for the company! I want them to care about what is efficient for me.

I am sure it would be efficient for the company if we all worked for free. Who's in?


Now, I know there has to be a balance. But I would bet there is not a huge difference in the cost of a 16 hr. 4 day and a 20 hr. 3 day. When you factor in hotel cost, per diem cost, paying pilots min day vs paying pilots to fly. Especially if you could measure the fuel expense of a happy pilot vs a pissed off pilot.

The only explanation I have ever seen made compared something like a 13 hr 4 day to something like a 10 hr 3 day. I want to see some real numbers on a well built 3 day.

I believe the difference will not be that much. And that small amount is just the cost of doing business.

One job of a union is to create jobs through contractual provisions. What creates more jobs: all trips being super efficient 24 hour 3 days or 30 hour 4 days or having some/lots of trips being only 10 hour 3 days and 15 hour 4 days? Building less efficient trips, while we think they suck, helps create extra jobs.

So its hard for the union to argue for every trip to max out available flight hours and then argue that, oh ********************, you just furloughed 350 guys because all of the sudden every pilot just became more efficient.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Well, I won't join the "computer" argument.

My thoughts are so what! I don't care if 4 day trips are more efficient for the company. And I don't want my union reps caring what is efficient for the company! I want them to care about what is efficient for me.

I am sure it would be efficient for the company if we all worked for free. Who's in?


Now, I know there has to be a balance. But I would bet there is not a huge difference in the cost of a 16 hr. 4 day and a 20 hr. 3 day. When you factor in hotel cost, per diem cost, paying pilots min day vs paying pilots to fly. Especially if you could measure the fuel expense of a happy pilot vs a pissed off pilot.

The only explanation I have ever seen made compared something like a 13 hr 4 day to something like a 10 hr 3 day. I want to see some real numbers on a well built 3 day.

I believe the difference will not be that much. And that small amount is just the cost of doing business.

I have no problem with your post. I think there should be a good balance between keeping the staffing level as efficient as practical, and keeping the variety of trips at an acceptable level. Surely there is a middle-ground, and it certainly needs work. We have been WAY too understaffed, which is why we have been suffering through 4 day trips. And I whole-heartedly agree that management should try their best to keep the morale high, since that affects so many aspects of the operation. As with all of life, there is a medium point somewhere.

My only point was to refute the ignorance of that other guy. In no way am I defending the 4 day trips, or saying that the lines have been good lately. I was just explaining why the 4 day trips come when we get short staffed. It is quite simple, the use of 4 day trips requires fewer crews, and we haven't had any to spare.

 

[Redan]

Yes we are short staffed and have been for some time. Our Mekong pilots just departed for Viet Nam. And yet no action from company in relief. Perhaps even more Chief Pilot harassment/intimidation is in order to keep us buoyed up. I wonder how much longer our management expects us (especially the reserves) to be able to continue with their efficient scheduling model before they run us into the ground.

 

[damnflyboy]

Yes we are short staffed and have been for some time. Our Mekong pilots just departed for Viet Nam. And yet no action from company in relief. Perhaps even more Chief Pilot harassment/intimidation is in order to keep us buoyed up. I wonder how much longer our management expects us (especially the reserves) to be able to continue with their efficient scheduling model before they run us into the ground.

You speak wisdom. Are you Jesus?

 

[JumpersAway]

It doesn't seem as though we are gaining ground in regard to our staffing. We're still short First Officers, even with the furloughs back. We have Captains in training, right now, but there are fewer in training than we are losing to Vietnam. In addition to this, there are numberous that are in the pool for Delta. From what I hear, they are due a class somewhere around November. That means we're going to be heading into the holidays short staffed. What is the deal here- how long do we wait to get this show on the road and start making progress?

Last year, I didn't mind busting tail to get through the summer, because I knew I would have plenty of time off in the fall to recoup. This doesn't seem to be the case. I also knew that if we worked hard, we'd catch a break with growth and airframes. Thus far, the only "reward" has been a "merger" that will probably degrade my QOL and seniority.

 

[buscap]

It doesn't seem as though we are gaining ground in regard to our staffing. We're still short First Officers, even with the furloughs back. We have Captains in training, right now, but there are fewer in training than we are losing to Vietnam. In addition to this, there are numberous that are in the pool for Delta. From what I hear, they are due a class somewhere around November. That means we're going to be heading into the holidays short staffed. What is the deal here- how long do we wait to get this show on the road and start making progress?

Last year, I didn't mind busting tail to get through the summer, because I knew I would have plenty of time off in the fall to recoup. This doesn't seem to be the case. I also knew that if we worked hard, we'd catch a break with growth and airframes. Thus far, the only "reward" has been a "merger" that will probably degrade my QOL and seniority.

Quit yer freakin whining and go call scheduling!!!:bawling:

They need someone to reposition aircraft from A-Tech!!!:beer:

 

[No Delay]

Wonder if there is any chance we could get our union to grieve Section 24 A 2:

2. The Company will use best efforts to provide an adequate number of
pilots (including reserves) to cover the scheduled time, vacations, training
and known sick leave, military leave, and attrition.


I crack myself up :laugh:

 

[crj567]

Wonder if there is any chance we could get our union to grieve Section 24 A 2:

2. The Company will use best efforts to provide an adequate number of
pilots (including reserves) to cover the scheduled time, vacations, training
and known sick leave, military leave, and attrition.


I crack myself up :laugh:

Can we get them to do anything other than confiscate our 2% for the opportunity of watching them suck on mgmt's wanks? I swear to GOD-there has never been so much kissing of the company's butt in the history of ASA. I don't think any of these people understand that they are getting paid to represent us-not to run the freaking company!!

-I would definitely vote for a complete MEC recall if such a thing were to come up. As long as they were not replaced with Joe Merchant and company.

 

[the palm]

Can we get them to do anything other than confiscate our 2% for the opportunity of watching them suck on mgmt's wanks? I swear to GOD-there has never been so much kissing of the company's butt in the history of ASA. I don't think any of these people understand that they are getting paid to represent us-not to run the freaking company!!

-I would definitely vote for a complete MEC recall if such a thing were to come up. As long as they were not replaced with Joe Merchant and company.

You will pay your 2% and like it. And why are you watching people suck wanks?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Can we get them to do anything other than confiscate our 2% for the opportunity of watching them suck on mgmt's wanks? I swear to GOD-there has never been so much kissing of the company's butt in the history of ASA. I don't think any of these people understand that they are getting paid to represent us-not to run the freaking company!!

-I would definitely vote for a complete MEC recall if such a thing were to come up. As long as they were not replaced with Joe Merchant and company.

Those of us who understand the reality of the industry realize that what is good for the company is also good for us....We came very close to being CMR....Idiots like you can't comprehend that....

 

[crj567]

Those of us who understand the reality of the industry realize that what is good for the company is also good for us....We came very close to being CMR....Idiots like you can't comprehend that....

Idiots like me also don't try to hijack the union for the RJDC!

-That was a class move for the ages, d-bag!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Idiots like me also don't try to hijack the union for the RJDC!

-That was a class move for the ages, d-bag!

:crying::crying::crying:

You don't even understand what RJDC was about....You are too stupid to figure it all out...I didn't try to hijack anything...

You got your way..The PID and RJDC failed..now you get to compete with everyone for flying...Enjoy the competition.....

 

[crj567]

:crying::crying::crying:

You don't even understand what RJDC was about....You are too stupid to figure it all out...I didn't try to hijack anything...

You got your way..The PID and RJDC failed..now you get to compete with everyone for flying...Enjoy the competition.....

I know EXACTLY what the RJDC was about! It is central to the reason that people from XJET, Mesaba, Compass, Eagle, etc. are at majors way the hell ahead of any of your RJDC pals... In my opinion. it was a thinly-veiled attempt at sneaking on the list at a major at advanced status rather than accepting a staple. You could have scarcely created more enemies at mainline had you whipped it out in the hallway and just pissed on their shoes.

-You and your inbred Comair RJDC pals screwed our whole pilot group to the wall! We became the black sheep, the step-children, the riff-raff, the barbie-jet trash. We all deserved much better! The only person to benefit in any way from that case was the lawyer who represented the RJDC. We certainly would all be much better off if that whole mess had never happened.

-Call me what you like, but I will always remain convinced that the RJDC did far more harm to all of us than anything else in our collective careers.

-Gen Lee and I are not best buds, but we damn sure agree that the RJDC was one of the worst ideas ever to come to pass in our industry.