ASA Managment wants contract done by end of May...

[D'Angelo]

D'Angelo,

I have always prided myself in being a person of reason and NOT someone who drives business decisions based on emotion....With that being said, and also having read several of your posts on this site, i can honestly say that you are the very definition of FLAME BAIT.

Tell me what we are demanding that is unreasonable. Is it unreasonable to request efficiency in scheduling, or to fight for reasonable, AFFORDABLE pay scales when the company is making a hefty profit????

You are full of crap! If you want to debate reason, lets get specific. Lets start talking about which parts we EXPECT to get (noticed I didn't say what was in our opener because the idea is to meet in the middle which we are doing by the way) that is so unreasonable. Lets debate specifics...

Feel free to reply

Your already darn near top of the industry as far as 70 seater pay except horizon so why should you expect more. Please tell me what the median household income is in the united states. Don't use that BS how we have to train more and do medicals, and PCs and blah blah blah. We all knew exactly how the game goes coming into this buisness. Your 50 seat pay is already sitting pretty good. Right around where everyone else has it. The 50 seater is wildy unprofitable so there is no reason to keep getting a raise on that one. Its a plane that is destined to be sitting in the desert within the next 10 years or so. Lets see here commuter clause. Why waste a piece of ammo just because some people make the CHOICE to commute. Thats what sick time is for if you dont make it. The hefty profit is no excuse actually. All regionals make a profit. The only reason cmr is showing a loss is cause we are still owned by delta. With a fee for departure its impossible to not make a profit. Once you get a lavish contract you get a big bullseye on your back. You should actually be commending management. They are saving you from yourselves. Your "opener" was a shoot for the moon type situation. "shooting for the moon" is a thing of the past. Its a waste of bargaining time. If you guys would start in the middle and see where you get from there this would get done fast. Time to say hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle. I wish you all luck on being in the middle. I know its easy to get caught up in the mob mentality that unions tend to promote for their own self serving purpose.

 

[atlcrashpad]

I assure you im not flamebait. Just trying to be a voice of reason in this time of madness. You guys are just too blind to see that though. You only want to hear people screaming HOOAH and "Hold The line" and blah blah blah all that lame garbage

Yo, you gots it wrong! It aint "HOOAH" and "Hold the line", it's "HOLLA" and "Yeow... Bouy......"

 

[SilverandSore]

Your already darn near top of the industry as far as 70 seater pay except horizon so why should you expect more. Please tell me what the median household income is in the united states. Don't use that BS how we have to train more and do medicals, and PCs and blah blah blah. We all knew exactly how the game goes coming into this buisness. Your 50 seat pay is already sitting pretty good. Right around where everyone else has it. The 50 seater is wildy unprofitable so there is no reason to keep getting a raise on that one. Its a plane that is destined to be sitting in the desert within the next 10 years or so. Lets see here commuter clause. Why waste a piece of ammo just because some people make the CHOICE to commute. Thats what sick time is for if you dont make it. The hefty profit is no excuse actually. All regionals make a profit. The only reason cmr is showing a loss is cause we are still owned by delta. With a fee for departure its impossible to not make a profit. Once you get a lavish contract you get a big bullseye on your back. You should actually be commending management. They are saving you from yourselves. Your "opener" was a shoot for the moon type situation. "shooting for the moon" is a thing of the past. Its a waste of bargaining time. If you guys would start in the middle and see where you get from there this would get done fast. Time to say hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle. I wish you all luck on being in the middle. I know its easy to get caught up in the mob mentality that unions tend to promote for their own self serving purpose.

Who said anything about a lavish contract? I got one word for ya...inflation.

 

[jstyle13]

Your already darn near top of the industry as far as 70 seater pay except horizon so why should you expect more. Please tell me what the median household income is in the united states. Don't use that BS how we have to train more and do medicals, and PCs and blah blah blah. We all knew exactly how the game goes coming into this buisness. Your 50 seat pay is already sitting pretty good. Right around where everyone else has it. The 50 seater is wildy unprofitable so there is no reason to keep getting a raise on that one. Its a plane that is destined to be sitting in the desert within the next 10 years or so. Lets see here commuter clause. Why waste a piece of ammo just because some people make the CHOICE to commute. Thats what sick time is for if you dont make it. The hefty profit is no excuse actually. All regionals make a profit. The only reason cmr is showing a loss is cause we are still owned by delta. With a fee for departure its impossible to not make a profit. Once you get a lavish contract you get a big bullseye on your back. You should actually be commending management. They are saving you from yourselves. Your "opener" was a shoot for the moon type situation. "shooting for the moon" is a thing of the past. Its a waste of bargaining time. If you guys would start in the middle and see where you get from there this would get done fast. Time to say hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle. I wish you all luck on being in the middle. I know its easy to get caught up in the mob mentality that unions tend to promote for their own self serving purpose.

Yea that's brilliant. We start right at about what we already have in our 7 year old contract and managment starts where they always start which is asking for concessions/or giving nothing and I'm sure we would have gotten the contract done in 2 weeks.....whatever. As much as I wish that mgmn't and the pilot group could settle this quickly, it's just not the reality. We want the best contract we can get, mgmnt wants to give us as little as possible. The weaker side looses and the stronger side wins. That's just the nature of the game. You're worth what you can negotiate.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Regional Jets. Airlines began to use regional jets (RJs) in more strategic and creative ways after 9/11. Regional jets were cheaper to fly than larger aircraft, and their smaller capacity would also enable them preserve market share. RJs began to be used to replace larger aircraft on routes where demand had dropped and which could no longer support larger aircraft. Regional jets have a seating capacity for 35 to 70 passengers—giving them the ability to fly at higher load factors and increasing overall profitability. Although regional jet routes were seamlessly integrated into the network schedules and pricing systems of the major carriers, they were often operated by independent subsidiaries or carriers like American Eagle or Skywest Airlines. These carriers typically had substantially lower pay scales. For example, an analyis of DOT Form 41 data shows that the average flight crew operating cost at American Airlines in the quarter of 2000 was $480 per block-hour. By comparison, the average cost at American Eagle was $123 per block-hour. American Airlines replaced all of its services to cities in upstate New York (Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo) with regional jets. It is also thought that this represents a shift in strategy from market share dominance to revenue dominance. Larger aircraft would enable a given carrier to maintain a large market share by meeting all of the potential demand—including low-fare passengers who were often carried at, near, or even below the flight operating costs. With smaller airplanes, these passengers could be simply foregone or "spilled" in lieu of higher-revenue or connecting passengers.RJs were also used to introduce jet competition and enhance route networks in markets that would be unable to support larger aircraft. American Airlines deployed its regional jets to build up its "focus city" presence at Raleigh-Durham and in the Boston-New York-Washington DC corridor. Airlines also used regional jets on some hub-bypass flights, including routes such as between Los Angeles and Albuquerque. In essence, the RJs were able to act as strategic placeholders to preserve market presence and hub feeds until the traffic levels would return to previous and sustainable levels. Similar strategies were adopted by Continental, Delta, and USAirways.

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[blueridge71]

Actually no the pilots need to drop their lavish demands and meet in the middle somewhere. We all see what happens when we get too greedy. By your name I assume your former ACA. We all saw the unfortunate demise of your company. Unfortunately when RJs are all you've got then your stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Lavish demands like having firm days off and being able to support our families? For 11 months of work last year, my W2 showed less than $15,000 and my son qualified for WIC. The ASA contract is pitifully behind what ACA had years ago, or even later, after we made some concessions to attempt to keep our flying.

Yes, I was former ACA. I agree that RJs were the wrong airplane to use for a low fare carrier in a climate of record high fuel prices. Fortunately, ASA does not have that problem under fee for departure. And from what I've seen, ASA's costs are not that high.

 

[Tomct]

Yep...100% retro, 10% raise, HUGE QOL improvements and MAYBE I will vote YES!!! Anything less is a BIG NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

[sweptback]

Yep...100% retro, 10% raise, HUGE QOL improvements and MAYBE I will vote YES!!! Anything less is a BIG NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

I'm voting no before I even see it. I don't care if it has a 10% raise, huge QOL, and 100% retro. That's the game we play in this industry.

 

[FL990]

Your already darn near top of the industry as far as 70 seater pay except horizon so why should you expect more. Please tell me what the median household income is in the united states. Don't use that BS how we have to train more and do medicals, and PCs and blah blah blah. We all knew exactly how the game goes coming into this buisness. Your 50 seat pay is already sitting pretty good. Right around where everyone else has it. The 50 seater is wildy unprofitable so there is no reason to keep getting a raise on that one. Its a plane that is destined to be sitting in the desert within the next 10 years or so. Lets see here commuter clause. Why waste a piece of ammo just because some people make the CHOICE to commute. Thats what sick time is for if you dont make it. The hefty profit is no excuse actually. All regionals make a profit. The only reason cmr is showing a loss is cause we are still owned by delta. With a fee for departure its impossible to not make a profit. Once you get a lavish contract you get a big bullseye on your back. You should actually be commending management. They are saving you from yourselves. Your "opener" was a shoot for the moon type situation. "shooting for the moon" is a thing of the past. Its a waste of bargaining time. If you guys would start in the middle and see where you get from there this would get done fast. Time to say hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle. I wish you all luck on being in the middle. I know its easy to get caught up in the mob mentality that unions tend to promote for their own self serving purpose.

D'angelo,

This may be the single most unintelligent thing you have ever written on this board.

First: The 50 seater is unprofitable....I have 84 million reasons from the 4th quarter of last year that say you are full of crap. I am not talking about Comair...I am talking about ASA/SKYWEST...why should I take a pay cut when my shareholders along with MGMT are making boatloads of money....CRAP...we are not expecting a huge pay increase...in fact, most of the leadership will say that on the 70, take what we have...on the 50, slight increase to line up with industry standard, which we no longer top.

Second: average household income...yeah...that includes the guy who mops floors at McDonalds...if you don't think your skill/training/responsibility is worth more than that, then you don't have any business flying passengers. A first year FO makes 1/2 as much as a first year manager at Burger King....inexcusable...they should make a livable wage.

Third: start from the middle and go from there...SERIOUSLY, do you eat a lot of glue?? Come on...of course it would be done fast...and we would have 5 days off a month and would pay them to fly the airplanes...cause thats what they really are shooting for.

Is reality setting in yet?? NO??? let me further assist. We aren't expecting anything above and beyond what has come to be known as industry standard...when your company is making money hand over fist and telling you they can't afford to pay you a reasonable wage and give reasonable work rules...most of which by the way would cost them nothing more than utilizing the software that they have in place...its just unacceptable...

If you think so little of this profession and what we do, you really should do something else... READ MY OTHER POSTS...I AM NOT MILITANT BY ANY MEANS, which makes this all the more valid....you are just...well...FLAME BAIT!!

 

[FL990]

I'm voting no before I even see it. I don't care if it has a 10% raise, huge QOL, and 100% retro. That's the game we play in this industry.

a game which is foolish sweptback...what you are saying is typical union emotion driven crap...vote the contract, not the game

 

[WWEfan]

The fact that you guys are even entertaining Duh-angelo's comments is laughable. High 5 to him for bringing out the stupid in people and giving us all entertainment.

Too bad our ALPA web board doesnt get this much attention from our pilots

 

[John Pennekamp]

Seriously. Why do y'all even debate this fool? He's a Comair pilot for crying out loud. He's already caved twice and is about the be the new whore of the industry when he gets sold to MESA. He's just trying to flame y'all into another inane debate. DON'T RESPOND TO HIM AND HE'LL GO AWAY!

 

[D'Angelo]

a game which is foolish sweptback...what you are saying is typical union emotion driven crap...vote the contract, not the game

Thats the smartest thing an ASA pilot has said in months!

 

[ERJFO]

Thats the smartest thing an ASA pilot has said in months!

You wouldn't know what "smart" was if it hit you in the face.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Ooh, ooh, let me, let me!!!! Hit him in the face that is.

 

[D'Angelo]

The fact that you guys are even entertaining Duh-angelo's comments is laughable. High 5 to him for bringing out the stupid in people and giving us all entertainment.

Too bad our ALPA web board doesnt get this much attention from our pilots

Thats hilarious how you say your tagline is Comair sold us out. HA! Why should we fall on our swords for you? The moment that we do what benefits us and not you you scream bloody murder!! Thats quite ironic don't you think? Last time I checked our job description it doesn't say anything about sacrificing our careers for ASA people. We vote how we want. You vote how you want. Its really quite simple. Hell even ALPO doesn't expect us to fall on our sword solely for the benefit of your group. Not that anything is worth falling on your sword for anymore. I actually think its a beautiful thing seeing people start to think for themselves for a change. Now the next step is petitioning for another union to represent us, confusing people, and not getting enough votes for either union. That way you can throw both their as*es to the curb!! Its too bad the NMB and ALPO is too cowardly to allow a straight up vote every year if you want to keep your representation or not. The time now has come to abandon unions and go with straight up arbitration. That way a 3rd party can rule on what is fair. Cooler heads prevail and you meet in the middle. It most certainly ends all the time wasting management low ball and union "shoot for the moon" offers. Arbitration here we come! Time for the white house to "grow a sack" and remove all strike provisions from the RLA. Since everyone is easily replaceable now a days a strike is now a futile effort. HOOAH FOR ARBITRATION!!!

 

[737 Pylt]

Thats hilarious how you say your tagline is Comair sold us out. HA! Why should we fall on our swords for you? The moment that we do what benefits us and not you you scream bloody murder!! Thats quite ironic don't you think? Last time I checked our job description it doesn't say anything about sacrificing our careers for ASA people. We vote how we want. You vote how you want. Its really quite simple. Hell even ALPO doesn't expect us to fall on our sword solely for the benefit of your group. Not that anything is worth falling on your sword for anymore. I actually think its a beautiful thing seeing people start to think for themselves for a change. Now the next step is petitioning for another union to represent us, confusing people, and not getting enough votes for either union. That way you can throw both their as*es to the curb!! Its too bad the NMB and ALPO is too cowardly to allow a straight up vote every year if you want to keep your representation or not. The time now has come to abandon unions and go with straight up arbitration. That way a 3rd party can rule on what is fair. Cooler heads prevail and you meet in the middle. It most certainly ends all the time wasting management low ball and union "shoot for the moon" offers. Arbitration here we come! Time for the white house to "grow a sack" and remove all strike provisions from the RLA. Since everyone is easily replaceable now a days a strike is now a futile effort. HOOAH FOR ARBITRATION!!!

How goes the F/A training? Are you ready to walk in to their job when they all strike?? How about donating more of your pay for DCI mgmt's bonuses??
You are truly a clueless moron!
737

 

[D'Angelo]

How goes the F/A training? Are you ready to walk in to their job when they all strike?? How about donating more of your pay for DCI mgmt's bonuses??
You are truly a clueless moron!
737

Never have done F/A training personally. No worries though they will be dealt with in time. Once the paycut kicks in we will all be breathing easier and living it up. No one will need to replace striking F/As because there won't be one. I do ask you this though why are you so against arbitration. Drop the union garbage rhetoric for a few seconds and truly think about it. What bad could come of it? This is a win win situation. Instead of wasting years on negotiations you can simply throw it on the arbitrators lap. You have a panel made of neutral parties, pilot parties and management parties. They figure out what the fairest deal possible is. No more falling on your sword and holding a picket sign like a tard while everyone else swoops in to take your flying the minute you liquidate. Lets hear some good reasons against arbitration instead of the typical union rhetoric. Remember this is not the old days anymore.

 

[atrdriver]

No more falling on your sword and holding a picket sign like a tard...

This from the KING of the tards.

 

[Lolikoka]

That's not how arbitration works

The time now has come to abandon unions and go with straight up arbitration. That way a 3rd party can rule on what is fair. Cooler heads prevail and you meet in the middle. HOOAH FOR ARBITRATION!!!

That's not how arbitration works - at least not how it's been presented by the McCain bill to work in the airline industry. The arbitrator doesn't come up with middle ground - he picks one side's proposal. Period. It's all or nothing. That's not good for anybody. The world works on negotiation and compromise and adjustment. I don't want an all or nothing gamble determining my future, so I don't want mandatory arbitration in the airline industry.