ASA managment ready to continue?????

[JoeMerchant]

You suscribe to the FAA safety standard. If it is unsafe show me the body count and then we will make changes.

You subscribe to the union safety standard. If safety can be used as a bargaining chip, unions will use it. The crew complement issue and age 60 are two examples from ALPA. The fireman on diesel locomotives is another example from the railway unions and that is where the term "featherbedding" comes from. Safety should be kept separate from collective bargaining. Using safety as a chip undermines true safety issues.

 

[GreatView]

You are comparing apples to grapes there ShallowView. Did or do you fly in the reserves? Have you ever been in the military? Many pilots understand the possible dangers of dual quals between the 50 and 70. This is not an ATR 42 vs. ATR 72. All pilots are not equally qualified. Safety defaults to the weakest link there SPORT! Stay on your ATR where you have 1/2 the speed and therefore twice as long to make decisions. :crying:

Okay, so what you are saying is that people who fly completely different types week by week ARE not unsafe, but 50 to 70 flying is?

Apples to Apples....Grapeape....

Get a life bro.....I'm done arguing with you. You lose JizzJet!

 

[Bizjet]

You subscribe to the union safety standard. If safety can be used as a bargaining chip, unions will use it. The crew complement issue and age 60 are two examples from ALPA. The fireman on diesel locomotives is another example from the railway unions and that is where the term "featherbedding" comes from. Safety should be kept separate from collective bargaining. Using safety as a chip undermines true safety issues.

You have a type now in the CRJ or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night??? How would you know anything about the safety aspect of flying mixed flying between the 50 and 70? Actually you are the one who is trying to use a safety issue and as another way to slam ALPA. You will never get it. This has nothing to do with ALPA except perhaps notifying the CASC. Many of the IP's have spoken out against mixed flying due to safety concerns. Stay with the ATR there Joey so that you can speak from experience on mixed flying between the ATR 72 and ATR 42. Do you think that it is unsafe to fly a flight under FAR 121 if the TCAS is inop? If it can be deferred would you refuse the aircraft. Do you think ALPA should defend you if you were going to be terminated for refusing the aircraft? Since this happened to you why did you call your reps for help? With your logic you should have called the CASC only. Using safety as a cover to defend your stupid decision in refusing the aircraft because of your bone headed stubbornness undermines true safety issues. Don't you agree little Joey?

When are you going to turn in those minutes from the LEC meeting that you stole and refused to return? You know the meeting from about 18 months ago. Maybe your older girl friend would have the courage to come to the next meeting and return them for you. Or perhaps she could come with you and hold your hand so you could return them! How about if the LEC Chairman guaranteed you safe passage??:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

Bizjet - really - why the personal attacks?

ALPA has a high standard for confidentiality which has been briefed to me as part of my training for committee work. This confidentiality helps ALPA as well as the line pilots, since ALPA gets better information if the pilot is completely open and honest with the ALPA member assisting them.

I think your heart is in the right place, that you want to make ASA a better place. Lets keep this debate in the spirit of making ASA a better place.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, has made a mistake in an airplane. ALPA works to help us identify and fix mistakes, often by improving on the systems imposed on us. For example, ALPA's efforts to highlight the issues about airplane swaps and crews taking the wrong airplane helped prevent me from taking the wrong aircraft one stormy night. ALPA recommended changes to the way the releases were printed and eventually management adopted much of what ALPA requested. Since then it seems the problem has been fixed.

But we did not need to know who did what to learn our lesson. The job was done while maintaining member's confidentiality.

JoeMerchant is an ALPA member who deserves the rights and privleges that his membership provides. He has differences in opinions about many issues, but that does not change his membership status.

I encourage you to focus on the goal of making ASA a better place, just as I encourage Joe to support our MEC which is the better way to get what he desires, too. We may have differences of opinion, but ASA pilots are not our enemy.

 

[~~~^~~~]

deleted

 

[Bizjet]

Bizjet - really - why the personal attacks?

ALPA has a high standard for confidentiality which has been briefed to me as part of my training for committee work. This confidentiality helps ALPA as well as the line pilots, since ALPA gets better information if the pilot is completely open and honest with the ALPA member assisting them.

I think your heart is in the right place, that you want to make ASA a better place. Lets keep this debate in the spirit of making ASA a better place.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, has made a mistake in an airplane. ALPA works to help us identify and fix mistakes, often by improving on the systems imposed on us. For example, ALPA's efforts to highlight the issues about airplane swaps and crews taking the wrong airplane helped prevent me from taking the wrong aircraft one stormy night. ALPA recommended changes to the way the releases were printed and eventually management adopted much of what ALPA requested. Since then it seems the problem has been fixed.

But we did not need to know who did what to learn our lesson. The job was done while maintaining member's confidentiality.

JoeMerchant is an ALPA member who deserves the rights and privleges that his membership provides. He has differences in opinions about many issues, but that does not change his membership status.

I encourage you to focus on the goal of making ASA a better place, just as I encourage Joe to support our MEC which is the better way to get what he desires, too. We may have differences of opinion, but ASA pilots are not our enemy.

He made the leap to tag ALPA with using negotiations on mixed flying with the 50 and 70 as a political negotiations ploy when it is truly a safety issue. Every time he post on any subject it is a stepping stone to slam ALPA and those who serve in ALPA positions. You need to post to him. I know you two are friends but he has not taken any of you advice. When he stops his attacks against those that are working for the ASA pilots maybe then you and I will have some common ground. That will never happen. Joey is a willing enemy of the ASA MEC and anyone who supports the union. He serves management well. He also takes those who post here in support of ALPA and uses there post as official positions of ALPA because he says that those who disagree with him are MEC officials. I don't believe there are ANY MEC officers who waste there time on this and other anonymous boards.

 

[John Pennekamp]

He made the leap to tag ALPA with using negotiations on mixed flying with the 50 and 70 as a political negotiations ploy when it is truly a safety issue. Every time he post on any subject it is a stepping stone to slam ALPA and those who serve in ALPA positions. You need to post to him. I know you two are friends but he has not taken any of you advice. When he stops his attacks against those that are working for the ASA pilots maybe then you and I will have some common ground. That will never happen. Joey is a willing enemy of the ASA MEC and anyone who supports the union. He serves management well. He also takes those who post here in support of ALPA and uses there post as official positions of ALPA because he says that those who disagree with him are MEC officials. I don't believe there are ANY MEC officers who waste there time on this and other anonymous boards.

I've heard from them that the MEC reads and laughs, but never posts. Something about a protocol agreement they have to only let communication people respond to stuff. But don't tell JB. Anybody who praises ALPA MUST be a rep.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah, I know and agree. In fact, I'm considering retirement from FlightInfo.

ALPA is mostly good. The union has also really screwed up the scope issue. All you can do is support the part that works well and try to fix the part that is broken.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You subscribe to the union safety standard. If safety can be used as a bargaining chip, unions will use it.

Good for them. I am concerned that airline management has driven many of its employees to distraction. How a Northwest crew stays focused on their work is beyond me and Comair guys have had a very difficult few weeks.

Safety has always been ALPA's justification for its existence.

I don't want pilots to have to work two, or three, jobs to support their families while performing their duties as Commercial Airline Pilots. If ALPA bargains for safety - well somebody needs to. Does pay and QOL equal safety? I think the answer is yes when you get pushed as far down Maslow's Hierarcy of Needs as we have been pushed.

 

[goahead]

Why don't you get each others numbers, call one another and talk about this shi_t. You know it's the weekend free mins........ This is like reading a book where every page is the same.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Don't you think Drew and Nelson would have rammed it down our throats to fly both types, even they thought it was not safe.

701EV

No. And I must say the demonization of a dead man with a family continues to sink to new lows.[/quote]

Absolutely not ... multiple times both Drew and Nelson stated their oppsition to CR5 and CR7 dual qualificatuion. This was never an issue because both of these guys (plus Ed H, Jesse and Les) were opposed to line guys doing this.

Bob

 

[Crash Pad]

Ok plowed through 7 pages and gathered:
1. We have three things the company wants. Dual qual, Pref bid, and blended pay. The key to negotiation is having something the other guy wants. Good news.
2. Salt Lake is scheduled to close on all formal company communication. All informal rumor communication has it open well into the future.
3. The Delta RFP is why the company is talking.

I might have missed some side stuff. Ok my question is why has no one addressed the massive build up at SKYW (mainline)? SKYW is hiring like crazy for planes they don't have. I know a replacement worker when I see one (lots of MSP overnights). I don't care if you have to use every chip you have. A single list is the most critical item. ASA will be the next Comair. Really sweet deal until they close the doors.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Ok plowed through 7 pages and gathered:
1. We have three things the company wants. Dual qual, Pref bid, and blended pay. The key to negotiation is having something the other guy wants. Good news.
2. Salt Lake is scheduled to close on all formal company communication. All informal rumor communication has it open well into the future.
3. The Delta RFP is why the company is talking.

I might have missed some side stuff. Ok my question is why has no one addressed the massive build up at SKYW (mainline)? SKYW is hiring like crazy for planes they don't have. I know a replacement worker when I see one (lots of MSP overnights). I don't care if you have to use every chip you have. A single list is the most critical item. ASA will be the next Comair. Really sweet deal until they close the doors.

That's fine. MAX PAY TO THE LAST DAY!

 

[Bizjet]

I've heard from them that the MEC reads and laughs, but never posts. Something about a protocol agreement they have to only let communication people respond to stuff. But don't tell JB. Anybody who praises ALPA MUST be a rep.

JP,

Little Joey is such a whimp. His key board is his only weapon. I'll bet if he was awaken during the night by an intruder in the bedroom he would type on the key board "Take the old woman and leave me alone--I am too young to die"!

:laugh:

 

[ASARJMan]

"Take the old woman and leave me alone--I am too young to die"!

:laugh:

Too funny Biz. Yeah, she is showing her age for sure! Smoking & drinking hard will do that ya know.

VOTED IN FAVOR!