ASA hats

[SuperKooter]

Why?.

Because the average American knows what unions are all about and doesn't like them. It just makes us look like we are crybabies in their eyes.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because the average American knows what unions are all about and doesn't like them. It just makes us look like we are crybabies in their eyes.

Your response could be percieved as opinion. Do you have any references, past experience (non personal) or resources?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because the average American knows what unions are all about and doesn't like them. It just makes us look like we are crybabies in their eyes.

Your response could be percieved as opinion. Do you have any references, past experience (non personal) or resources?

Well?

 

[Palomino]

so at my airline hats are optional during summer uniform...so am i less professional from April-October because i leave the sweatbucket at home during the summer?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

so at my airline hats are optional during summer uniform...so am i less professional from April-October because i leave the sweatbucket at home during the summer?

Still argueing the hat from a personal viewpoint?

The FedEx guys wore thier hats in the middle of the MEM summer and they got the best contract in the biz....

Dave Webb could have used many examples at the Pattern Bargaining symposium to explain how his pilots got the best contract... he chose the hat.....


I've got my personal feeling about the hat, especially in summer... but I also know that the hat is a unique indicator of Air Line Pilots. It is a eye catching symbol that the public recognizes.... That image/symbol has value.


Still no real arguements against the hat from a professional viewpoint.



Anyone?

 

[buscap]

I've got my personal feeling about the hat, especially in summer... but I also know that the hat is a unique indicator of Air Line Pilots. It is a eye catching symbol that the public recognizes.... That image/symbol has value.

Still no real arguements against the hat from a professional viewpoint.
Anyone?

Alright. Here goes.

As I've said before, that classic pilot hat is very much a throwback. A throwback to the early days of aviation when maritime terms and symbology were adopted, giving a structure of authority to an endeaver which had none.

The pilot hat's status as a symbol of the profession, and thus the so callled 'professional image', is very much rooted in that seagoing tradition. But at least in the seagoing context, and some early aviation endeavors, the hat served a purpose.

The hat in our day is very much a symbol of blue collar labor. While not taking anything away from the myriad of technical and arduous endeavors falling under the 'blue collar' label, I would submit that the education, technical, and demeanor requirements of the Airline Pilot trade, take us outside the blue collar moniker.

While we are a generally unionized group, the challenges of modern economies have brought unions into many areas including professional education and medicine. Neither are considered 'blue collar'.

I submit that the hat actually brings us down as professionals, putting our image into the same throwback blue collar bin as milkmen, gas station clerks , and maytag repairmen.

Lose the hats.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Alright. Here goes.

As I've said before, that classic pilot hat is very much a throwback. A throwback to the early days of aviation when maritime terms and symbology were adopted, giving a structure of authority to an endeaver which had none.

This is only your opinion. Do you have a reference that suggests that hat is a throw back?

And yet every organization that wants to promote the image of a pilot or use the pilot image to promote thier product or service shows the pilot with the hat.



The pilot hat's status as a symbol of the profession, and thus the so callled 'professional image', is very much rooted in that seagoing tradition. But at least in the seagoing context, and some early aviation endeavors, the hat served a purpose.

Rooted in sea going tradition but made Air Line Tradition for over 75 years....

The hat in our day is very much a symbol of blue collar labor. While not taking anything away from the myriad of technical and arduous endeavors falling under the 'blue collar' label, I would submit that the education, technical, and demeanor requirements of the Airline Pilot trade, take us outside the blue collar moniker.

Maybe so, nonetheless, the Air Line Pilot hat has become a symbol of the profession. The latest SWA commerical is an example.

While we are a generally unionized group, the challenges of modern economies have brought unions into many areas including professional education and medicine. Neither are considered 'blue collar'.

Not sure what blue collar has to do with it. The hat like the stripes and shoulder boards have nothing to do with blue collar labor. Yet we are.

I submit that the hat actually brings us down as professionals, putting our image into the same throwback blue collar bin as milkmen, gas station clerks , and maytag repairmen.

No, milkmen (if they still exists and wear Air Line style hats), gas station clerks (huh???) and Maytag repiar man (you've really lost me...). But if you insist on using these types of non current examples, they were wearing the hat cause the hat image made by military types helped sell their service with trust and repsect.

Lose the hats.

You opinion against the hat is simply a justification to apease the convienence of not wearing the hat. The thought of not wearing that for all of its inconvienences is too attractive to pass up.....

All of your "ideas" are your own.... you have no reference to your opinion. I am open to any ideas that the hat is deterimental, but so far the "No Hat" crowd is simply pissed off legacy guys with no pension and neo-kids looking for personal comfort.

But yet SWA feels to sell thier tickets the image of an airline pilot wearing a hat is needed. They have had over 30 years profit.

FedEx pilots who normally don't wear hats, got hats and wore them. They now have the best contract in the biz.


Does anyone have a valid professional arguement against the hat. Why is it that SWA and FedEx, the money makers, use the hat? and if the hat is good any given day then why not every day?


To show the hat doesn't work, an example needs to be shown of how the hat costs an organization, whether it is a company or an MEC, money or promotes a poor image to the public.


We all know the hat is cumbersome. So are line checks, 0500 shows, CDOs, Junior Manning, PT events, medicals and all of the other sacrfices that we make as professionals. But at some point to claim professional status we have to put aside personal gain (in this case sacrficing image for convienence).



Anyone?

 

[graseby]

I didn't like hats until I went bald. The hat keeps me warm.

Btw, how many of you that don't like wearing uniform hats wear baseball caps on your day off?

 

[buscap]

All of your "ideas" are your own.... you have no reference to your opinion. I am open to any ideas that the hat is deterimental, but so far the "No Hat" crowd is simply pissed off legacy guys with no pension and neo-kids looking for personal comfort.

But yet SWA feels to sell thier tickets the image of an airline pilot wearing a hat is needed. They have had over 30 years profit.

FedEx pilots who normally don't wear hats, got hats and wore them. They now have the best contract in the biz.


Does anyone have a valid professional arguement against the hat. Why is it that SWA and FedEx, the money makers, use the hat? and if the hat is good any given day then why not every day?


To show the hat doesn't work, an example needs to be shown of how the hat costs an organization, whether it is a company or an MEC, money or promotes a poor image to the public.


We all know the hat is cumbersome. So are line checks, 0500 shows, CDOs, Junior Manning, PT events, medicals and all of the other sacrfices that we make as professionals. But at some point to claim professional status we have to put aside personal gain (in this case sacrficing image for convienence).



Anyone?

Ok. I'll fess up. I lost my hat and I'm too cheap to get a new one!!!

Just kidding.

But where's my scotch??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But where's my scotch??

YEAH!

:beer:

 

[ASARJMan]

Screw the damn hats! Ties should go too! WTF cares!

VOTED IN FAVOR!
www.nopilotleftbehind.com
You can change your vote if you regret voting for the JoeMerchantCoalition! Just go back and change your ballot!

 

[Soverytired]

I find it fascinating that this thread has gone on 12 pages and is STILL ON TOPIC.

This has to be some sort of flightinfo record.


(p.s. Hats blow large chunks of fecal material)

 

[Tarzan]

Die Thread! Die!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not before someone...anyone..can argue professionally against the hat! Only then can the thread die!!!

 

[jetstream]

Most of the ones I've seen who won't wear a hat are the guys with the $30 metro-sexual hair style who don't want to mess it up. After all they got up extra early to put the moose/gel/whatever in and make it stick up just right. And lets not forget the sideburns.

I remember when I used to worry over my hair like that. Let's see, I think it was in high school.

 

[AV80R]

“Most of the ones I've seen who won't wear a hat are the guys with the $30 metro-sexual hair style who don't want to mess it up. After all they got up extra early to put the moose/gel/whatever in and make it stick up just right. And lets not forget the sideburns.”

Funny, most guys I’ve seen who really like wearing hats are either losing hair (Propecia-addicts), or short guys who hope to look taller, or the ones who just can’t get people to like them or to respect them - they think a hat will help them in that arena.


Of course I’m generalizing here, if you like your hat more power to you; I’m just using “Jetstream’s” flawed (in my view) analogy. Too bad for someone with such a beautiful user name!

Seriously, I don’t like hats because I think it’s an old remnant of most airlines’ military beginnings (at the time most pilots came from the military). Today, I don’t see why we need to “look respectable” in order to be respected. I think your attitude and your demeanor will dictate whether you’ll get respect from others.

Btw., since hats are required by my airline I do wear it of course; however if I were given a choice I’d revert to the 70’s (or was it 60’s?) and burn my hat just like the women burned their bras then! :]

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Today, I don’t see why we need to “look respectable” in order to be respected.

I think your attitude and your demeanor will dictate whether you’ll get respect from others.

Today? So yesterday or yester-year was different? How? How is it "before" we needed to "look respectable" but today we don't? Do we no longer need or want respect?


Attitude and demeanor? And yet there is another thread asking why passengers are rude to pilots? Perhaps passengers see a uniformed airport employee and assume "this pilot" is a TSA agent, porter or wheelchair usher.

Do you want to be respected more than a TSA Agent? Do you want to be credited with having a college degree, flight training and having the lives of your passengers in your hands? Or do you want to treated like you know the difference between a gel and turkey sandwhich?

If you don't then perhaps we shouldn't look like one who does...

 

[Palomino]

Today? So yesterday or yester-year was different? How? How is it "before" we needed to "look respectable" but today we don't? Do we no longer need or want respect?


Attitude and demeanor? And yet there is another thread asking why passengers are rude to pilots? Perhaps passengers see a uniformed airport employee and assume "this pilot" is a TSA agent, porter or wheelchair usher.

Do you want to be respected more than a TSA Agent? Do you want to be credited with having a college degree, flight training and having the lives of your passengers in your hands? Or do you want to treated like you know the difference between a gel and turkey sandwhich?

If you don't then perhaps we shouldn't look like one who does...

yeah. they assume i can tell them there gate, where to grab a smoke, push their wheelchair, where their car is parked, etc, etc. i don't mind helping people one bit. but the hat doesn't seperate me from any other airline employee or service worker. i've had all of these situations occur while wearing the hat.

the hat needs to retire. the pay is gone. the retirement is gone. might as well keep my hair and sweat less.

 

[AV80R]

“…Today? So yesterday or yester-year was different? How? How is it "before" we needed to "look respectable" but today we don't? Do we no longer need or want respect?”

If you’re going to quote me at least use it in the proper context. “Today” was clearly in reference to the previous sentence in my post which mentioned that hats are: “…an old remnant of most airlines’ military beginnings (at the time most pilots came from the military).” And since that is not the case today (except FedEx! ) I don’t see why we need them. Maybe it wasn’t so clear after all, but nevertheless that’s what I meant.

”…Attitude and demeanor? And yet there is another thread asking why passengers are rude to pilots?...”

Correct, there is also a follow up thread asking “Why are the pilots rude to the passengers?” Did you miss that thread or do read only the posts that might aid you in your rhetoric?

The thread you mentioned by the way proves my point. It IS your attitude and your demeanor that will earn you respect. The way you treat your passengers, they way you keep them informed when there are problems or delays, the way you help them find the correct gate (even if they travel on your competition), the way you push a wheel chair if you see that no one else is there to help and the passenger’s flight leaves in 5 minutes (even though that’s really NOT your job), etc, etc., WILL EARN you true respect, and not some phony “hat respect.”

In other words I believe your actions mean more than what you are wearing. You are a big ALPA proponent so maybe I’ll use this analogy. For example, when I see the sharpest looking GoJet pilot wearing a brand spanking new hat I don’t feel compelled to feel respect for the individual knowing that his or her uniform was not “earned” but rather “taken” from his or her brothers and sisters at TSA. I will not be rude to the individual but I have no respect for him/her either.

“…Perhaps passengers see a uniformed airport employee and assume "this pilot" is a TSA agent, porter or wheelchair usher…”

SO WHAT?! I mean, if they do what am I supposed to say? Do I say

“EXCUSE ME I am an A I R L I N E P I L O T, how dare you assume that I’m a porter, or worst yet a WHEELCHAIR USHER?! SHAME ON YOU!”

Please read what I said about earning respect – I’ve pushed many wheel chairs and each time I pretended it was my grand mother or my grand father I was helping out. Amazing how easy it is to be slightly unconventional when you’re helping “your own.”

”…Or do you want to treated like you know the difference between a gel and turkey sandwhich? If you don't then perhaps we shouldn't look like one who does...”

No, I just want to be treated like a good guy, someone who’s enjoyable to work with; but not because I have a pretty hat but because I’ve earned it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

yeah. they assume i can tell them there gate, where to grab a smoke, push their wheelchair, where their car is parked, etc, etc. i don't mind helping people one bit. but the hat doesn't seperate me from any other airline employee or service worker. i've had all of these situations occur while wearing the hat.

the hat needs to retire. the pay is gone. the retirement is gone. might as well keep my hair and sweat less.

You going to stop wearing your stripes when managment ratchets us down to the next level?

The trick is not to give in to the dumbing down of the profession. If wearing the hat is good enough for a SWA commercial to sell tickets and the FedEx pilots to get THE BEST CONTRACT, then it is good enough for me...