ASA hats

[atlcrjdriver]

Gents-

The clothes we wear are not what makes us professionals; instead, it is our attitudes. Playing dress-up doesn't do much to a person with an unprofessional attitude.

A big part of this is the perception that we give our pax/customers. This is why the FOM states that we wear our full uniform correctly while in public view. If you are a pax and see a slob of a capt walking to your a/c would that give you a warm and fuzzy?

While in public view, you must both look and act the part of professional airmen. Once the cockpit door closes you can loosen the tie and play the part as well.

Fly Safe...

 

[EatinRamen]

I never wear the stupid hat, but I do look professional with my uniform dry cleaned and a clean hair cut. If hats are the definitive description for a professional, then why aren't lawyers, doctors, politicians, chief pilots or CEO's wearing them?

 

[snap145]

I never wear the stupid hat, but I do look professional with my uniform dry cleaned and a clean hair cut. If hats are the definitive description for a professional, then why aren't lawyers, doctors, politicians, chief pilots or CEO's wearing them?

I dont completley disagree with you but to an extent i think we wear them because of the "responsability" we have with passengers onboard and the direct intimate proximity to passengers in the terminal.....there are alot more people with flying phobias then with the others you mentioned....i think it puts the general public a but more at ease....with that being said....its uncomfortable and i look like a giant wiener in it....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

now that post is dead on right there!!!

Nope... you are still not willing to get it....

Instead of trying to make the situation fit your thinking, why not adjust your thinking to fit the situation.

Appearance and attitude are interconnected. The pax don't get to observe you on the flight deck and don't get to examine your flying records. So even though you failed a couple of checkrides you get the assumption of the public that you haven't... at least if you act and dress like a professional.

 

[PCL_128]

You're right, the difference is remarkable. The Delta crew members can afford nice uniforms, cleaning bills, mortgage payments, and to put their kids through college.

And they can afford those things because for three-quarters of a century they have acted and looked like professionals instead of a bunch of spoiled little brats in leather jackets, no hats, spiked hair, iPod earbuds, and a #$%*ing backpack. Professional air line pilots wear hats. If you don't like it, become a flight attendant.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I think ties are the STUPIDEST clothing accessory of ALL time. However, most of the world recognizes that a well put together suit WITH a tie presents a professional image. You could argue "but I DON'T WANT to wear a tie, it's stupid", but you will not be viewed as a professional.

I don't like the hat either, but I think it conveys the sense of professionalism that the public wants to see in the people responsible for their lives.

You took the job knowing about the hat.........DEAL with it

 

[HelloNewman]

And they can afford those things because for three-quarters of a century they have acted and looked like professionals instead of a bunch of spoiled little brats in leather jackets, no hats, spiked hair, iPod earbuds, and a #$%*ing backpack. Professional air line pilots wear hats. If you don't like it, become a flight attendant.

Actually the FOM says I no longer have to wear the hat so I still have the right to not wear it and be a pilot. you know the neighborhood kids are getting bored maybe they can use it for a game of ultimate frisbee. Sorry to say but times change. Pan Am was a great airline for 1/2 of a century roughly then they died. Just because the hat has been worn 75+ years doesn't mean it will last forever. Are you saying the ones who choose not to wear the hat when not required are not professional? I thought all airline pilots were professionals. Is it only the ones that chose to play dress-up?

 

[Boris Badenov]

If we're hanging our hats (so to speak) on what we wear in order to be respected, there are bigger problems than headgear to consider.

 

[Speedtape]

I never wear the stupid hat, but I do look professional with my uniform dry cleaned and a clean hair cut. If hats are the definitive description for a professional, then why aren't lawyers, doctors, politicians, chief pilots or CEO's wearing them?

We don't litigate (well, most of us), perform brain surgery, work in the Senate and solicit pages, come to work half the time, or run companies with billion dollar budgets. Most of the ones mentioned don't have FOM, sec 12, except for the ones who hold a position, but do not lead by example!

 

[Tarzan]

Gents-

The clothes we wear are not what makes us professionals; instead, it is our attitudes. Playing dress-up doesn't do much to a person with an unprofessional attitude.

How you dress and carry yourself says more about how one thinks of themselves. If you can't take pride in your appearance, are you actually taking pride in how you conduct yourself in the airplane?

Sorry but after spending a few years in the military, the sharp guys always demonstrated a correlation between their uniforms and how they did their jobs.

So I guess you're right. It's not the clothes, it's how you wear them.

 

[PCL_128]

Actually the FOM says I no longer have to wear the hat so I still have the right to not wear it and be a pilot.

You depend on the FOM to tell you how to be a professional? As Rez said, professionals don't need to be policed, and they don't need to be told by an FOM something as basic as how to dress like a pilot. You should police yourself and wear your full uniform with pride. Management has no vested interest in you continuing to look like a professional. They want you to continue to slide deeper into the depths of the blue-collar everyday laborer. You're helping them with your pathetic attitude about your appearance.

Are you saying the ones who choose not to wear the hat when not required are not professional? I thought all airline pilots were professionals. Is it only the ones that chose to play dress-up?

No, not all air line pilots are professionals. Simply holding an ATP cert and a company ID doesn't make you a professional. Professionalism is about attitude. Your attitude is to do the least amount possible to get by. That's not the attitude of a true professional. Just by referring to it as "playing dress-up" demonstrates your unprofessional and immature attitude.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually the FOM says I no longer have to wear the hat so I still have the right to not wear it and be a pilot. you know the neighborhood kids are getting bored maybe they can use it for a game of ultimate frisbee. Sorry to say but times change. Pan Am was a great airline for 1/2 of a century roughly then they died. Just because the hat has been worn 75+ years doesn't mean it will last forever. Are you saying the ones who choose not to wear the hat when not required are not professional? I thought all airline pilots were professionals. Is it only the ones that chose to play dress-up?

Still trying to see the world thru your custom made lens..... At some point you might want to realize that you're efforts not to are greater than if just did it. You are like the school boy trying to argue how he shouldn't have to do his homework, but somehow should stil get a passing grade....


Sure you can follow the FOM like that....

The FOM is grey document designed to protect the company from liability all while giving pilots some room to make decisions. (just as long as its the right decision, but save that for another thread... )

If the FOM is your high standard that is your choice.... however professional pilots view the FARs and FOM as a minimum not a maximum.

If you watch the ALPA BOD2006 symposium on Pattern Bargaining, Dave Webb, FedEx MEC chairman, was asked how he got the best pay rates in the industry... At approx 44m into the session one of the things he said was "we got our pilots hats".

Newman (or anyone!!) are you going to debate the point:? Why do airline pilots wear their hat to picketing events when they want better pay? And if picketing day is good enough to look sharp they why not every day? Everyday is a good day to convince passengers, media and managment that we are worth it!!

So far, your arguements are personal and at the minimum standard.

Problem is when any profession member puts on a uniform he/she represents all of us, whether they like it or not. Sorry it is just they way it is... And for those of us who bust our tails and sacrifice our time off (from family) to make this profession better... it seems it is two steps forward and one step back when guys CHOOSE a poor attitude about the profession.

Let's make no mistake.. we have all choosen to be here... If your expectations aren't being met perhaps it is time to re-evaluate what you are looking for....

The only way this profession is going to get better is..if the rest of get up in the morning with the sole intent of making your life better, at our own expense (ain't gonna happen), or if we all collectively work together to effect positive change. Again all choices...

Sure not wearing the hat is easier for you. But wearing the hat is better for all of us...



Free Will....

 

[ASARJMan]

Actually the FOM says I no longer have to wear the hat

Can you provide a reference? Can't find that in the FOM.....hate hats!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Unless a revision is on the way, the FOM says we are still wearing the hats while in public ctc.

 

[scott hall]

I dont know what everyone is arguing about. If you want to wear you hat then feel free. If you think every pilot at asa should, then feel free to come by my office or call J.A. and let us know that we are wrong. Barring that, accept that the times are changing. Hats are gone and we need a more competitive contract to not only secure more flying but to keep what we have. The memo will be forthcoming.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Well, I guess we should get windbreakers, cause I hate my jacket too! And the tie itches my neck, and since times are changing, I won't wear that either.
But I still want my money 'caus I gots to get paid!! Ipods are expensive!!

Nike jogging suits would look COOL!

 

[FmrFreightDog]

You know, if the company actually changes the FOM to make the hat an optional item, then I don't see where any of you have a leg to stand on when it comes to lecturing someone for not wearing it. I personally don't think the leather jacket looks particularly professional but, as it is an approved uniform item, I don't go around telling people they look unprofessional wearing it.

Besides, don't we really have more important things to worry about than whether someone wears a hat or not??

If it becomes optional and you feel better about your self or feel more professional by wearing it then, by all means, wear the hat. While you're at it respect my decision not to wear it because I think it looks dumb and don't want to wear it. As I see it, it is my actions while I am at work that define me as a professional. I don't see a lot of people referring to hotel bellhops or airport skycaps as professionals, and most of them wear hats.

It's pretty simple really.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

This debate could go on forever w/ personal opinions on to wear or not to wear the hat and jacket. Unfortunantly, if you work at ASA the FOM says the while in public you must wear it and so I shall. If you don't want to wear a hat then go to a company that doesn't require it like XJT or LUV. IMHO, I don't like the hat and prefer the leather jacket.

To look professional doesn't require a hat nor jacket as I have seen numerous pilots from the previously mentioned airlines that present themselves very well. However, when I was hired at ASA I agreed to follow the terms in the FOM and I shall.

 

[COOPERVANE]

This reminds me of my first job at 16 as a cashier when my boss "banned" chewing gum while working. He thought it looked unprofessional. We all thought he was so old, stupid and stodgy, and out of touch. Besides, "I can scan with the best of them, why care if I'm smacking away at my gum!" I protested. Looking back, he was absolutely right. It DID look bad.

I guess this is one of those generational things and we will have to agree to disagree. I see a Delta pilot walking through the airport and I think he looks sharp. It brings back memories from when I was a kid, and flying was still classy. A pilot represented all things professional.

Half of the people on this board agree with me. The other half think the Delta guys look old, stupid and are representative of "old school" ideas of what the public regards as professional. Times do indeed change. Or do they?

 

[FDJ2]

The hat like many things in this profession is a carry-over from the Air Force. If the Air Force didn't wear hats we never would have either.

The hat was part of an airline pilots' uniform before there even was a U. S. Air Force. Pilot uniforms have a much more nautical heritage than an air force heritage. It goes back to the flying boats at Pan Am.

A pilot uniform, like most uniforms, looks incomplete and less professional without the hat, and while I'm on the subject leather flight jackets don't look professional either.