ASA guys, find out the real story

[outtahere]

Without vacation low, PBS is doomed at ASA/XJET. That was the only reason it passed the first time here and the only way it stays. The XJET guys have a great vacation system right now and if they try to snatch away any time or money from vacation, they alone will vote it down. I love PBS, simple as that. Its awesome that I can tailor my schedule to my needs for the month, however, vacation low is essential to moving forward.

 

[enuffalready]

Well what I think is: Vacation Low was a feature used to address the pilot group's concerns regarding not being able to maximize vacation under a PBS system. Was crucial to gaining support for the PBS system the company was aggressively pushing for. And they had over a year to analyze the feature. Now following implementation they have decided they don't like it and want to modify. And our elected representatives who were solidly against changing it a matter of months ago, are now singing a different song. Additionally, as we experience the constant exploitation of loopholes company discovers in virtually every aspect of the contract, here's about the only instance I can think of where it actually worked in the pilot group's favor. And we're apparently considering conceding. Killer.

Exactly right... and don't think for a second that wasn't by design by company... they knew it was the ONLY way to get a TA... then as soon as it is implemented they make up some BS about how they didn't know, etc..... come on... they knew EXACTLY what would happen.. priced it in and then once PBS was implemented they cry losses, etc...

and now there is talk of giving it away in addition to this smartpref non sense.. that makes no sense ...... rather than tweak as system that make 98% of the ASA people happy we should trash it for the devil we don't know

 

[Nevets]

and now there is talk of giving it away in addition to this smartpref non sense.. that makes no sense ...... rather than tweak as system that make 98% of the ASA people happy we should trash it for the devil we don't know

This is how many on the ERJ side feel. Tweak the line bidding system that makes 98% of the ERJ side happy instead of trashing it for a devil we don't know. I give credit to the ERJ MEC for being open minded enough to look at PBS and see if there is one out there that could provide at least the same QOL as we have now. It's obvious that they feel smartpref can. Has the CRJ MEC done the same?

 

[Redan]

Another factor for me is our schedules.
As our lines and pairings become more and more
difficult and less predictable while company manipulates
the credit thresholds at will, the vacation low
is about the only thing keeping us sane. Unless you're
on reserve of course.

 

[79%N1]

Agree with all of you (except for maybe Nevets : ))

Also hear the same is true of the erj line bidding. They would want it more like the old ASA system where you can drop touching trips, but not get paid for the lost block - and no add pay. Just fwiw. Not endorsing any system.

 

[gator_hater]

Would it be a huge disadvantage to move the vac low to say 70 hours instead of 65?

 

[asa rat]

I'll tell you one thing. Vacation low will be a goner in the new contract. I believe the company will allow it, but if you choose to maximize your days off, you will not get a 75 hr min. Probably something where you get paid what you credit - and no add pay. How does everyone feel about this? From their perspective, you can have the days off, or the pay. Not both.

Depends on what the company is willing to "give up" in order to get it.
Isn't that what they try to tell us?

 

[ASApuppy]

Why are any of us in the mindset that we need to give something up?

NEWSFLASH! ASA/Expessjet has no resumes on file! Ask the training dept guys who review them if you doubt me. Management is feeling the pressure to make this a more attractive place to work. For the first time, SH is most likely wanting to find ways to actually keep people.

Fix reserve, vacation low stays, expand ease of swaps, wages up. Talk to DAL and UAL on how to pay for it out of their billions in bag money.

No Concessions!

 

[79%N1]

Not disagreeing with you.....but, management seems to be willing to die on that hill, and it looks like they are moving to that pay or days off format in the neg's. Usually, if we do have to give in somewhere, we get better somewhere else.

I do challenge your assertion there are no resumes on file. I see guys interviewing all the time over there. Now, when the reg change takes effect they are going to have trouble finding people then. I believe our regional companies will just be 'right sized' along with the decrease in labor force. Massive 50 seat retirements in the coming years will require far less pilots than there are, even today.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

If a TA is presented and approved with some new globalized PBS with no vacation low option, I'm outta here. 15 years in and they just keep coming for the stuff that makes life almost tolerable. Attrition is only going to increase and no one wants to work for junk stagnant wages after financing an ATP and 1500 hours of instructing.

 

[701EV]

Not disagreeing with you.....but, management seems to be willing to die on that hill, and it looks like they are moving to that pay or days off format in the neg's. Usually, if we do have to give in somewhere, we get better somewhere else.

I do challenge your assertion there are no resumes on file. I see guys interviewing all the time over there. Now, when the reg change takes effect they are going to have trouble finding people then. I believe our regional companies will just be 'right sized' along with the decrease in labor force. Massive 50 seat retirements in the coming years will require far less pilots than there are, even today.

According to Fred and Danny they can't find any 1500hr pilots.

 

[Data]

Why in the world would we opt for some completely new system in a joint contract? That would be idiotic. Either take our existing PBS and tweak it or take the existing line bidding system from Expressjet and tweak. Anything else is asking for trouble. Never switch bidding systems in a contract, you can't fix anything until the next contract. You vote on new bidding systems in a LOA or side deal. We all knew there would be shortcomings in ASA's PBS but at least we had the next contract (this one) to clean it up. If we vote some new POS PBS system in, it will only take the company about 3 weeks to start dicking us over and then it'll be 6 years before we can address it.

 

[79%N1]

And yet that is exactly what is going to happen.

 

[enuffalready]

And yet that is exactly what is going to happen.

Yup...concur

 

[sweptback]

Not if we vote no.

There's going to be a contingent at XJT that will vote no just because the contract has PBS. Add that to the group at ASA that will vote no due to the switch in bidding systems for no valid reasons, and there's a very real possibility it might not pass.

This is all speculation of course, but either way, we get a vote.

 

[Nevets]

Agree with all of you (except for maybe Nevets : ))

Also hear the same is true of the erj line bidding. They would want it more like the old ASA system where you can drop touching trips, but not get paid for the lost block - and no add pay. Just fwiw. Not endorsing any system.

That's ridiculous! Why would the ERJ want your old POS line bidding system. By the way, we don't get paid for trips touched by our vacation anyway. No add pay? GMAB!

Not disagreeing with you.....but, management seems to be willing to die on that hill, and it looks like they are moving to that pay or days off format in the neg's. Usually, if we do have to give in somewhere, we get better somewhere else. .

Again, why would the ERJ side ever agree to anything that is not at least as good as what they currently have? If management doesn't like it, we stay separate. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[sweptback]

Again, why would the ERJ side ever agree to anything that is not at least as good as what they currently have? If management doesn't like it, we stay separate. It's not that big of a deal.

It's not a big deal, but then management will file Ch. 11 for the ExpressJet side (not SkyWest), and you'll end up with a much worse contract in bankruptcy. It wouldn't even be that much of a sham bankruptcy either, since we are losing money for many quarters now.

Staying separate is not a viable plan, no matter how you spin it.

 

[79%N1]

Didn't say you would (or we would) agree to it. Saying thats what they WANT, and they are about to cry poor - and jam Pinnacle, Comair, etc. at us. they don't like our vacation low, and they like your add pay less. Of course we all like it, and I sincerely doubt they would be able to wrestle it away. I have heard the MEC's are going down the 'meet in the middle' route of pick the pay, or the days off. (Or I imagine they will want to drop the concept of virtual credits.)

 

[ASADriver]

I'm fine with choosing either the time off or the pay, but not both. Why should we get full pay for extending one week to 3 or 4 weeks of anyway. Just decide which one you want. Max time off with a pay hit or min time off with full pay. Thats probably the only way we get to keep the vacation low.

 

[Redan]

I'm fine with choosing either the time off or the pay, but not both. Why should we get full pay for extending one week to 3 or 4 weeks of anyway. Just decide which one you want. Max time off with a pay hit or min time off with full pay. Thats probably the only way we get to keep the vacation low.

I can think of one reason why we should be paid:

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU FOLKS HAVE ALREADY FREELY AGREED TO.

I'm quite sure you can't possibly expect us to believe that product of vacation low is a surprise to you?

 

[ASADriver]

I can think of one reason why we should be paid:

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU FOLKS HAVE ALREADY FREELY AGREED TO.

I'm quite sure you can't possibly expect us to believe that product of vacation low is a surprise to you?

They did agree to it and they are paying us for it now. We are now negotiating a new contract and everything is back on the table. That's what happens when you negotiate a new contract. I'm fine with having the option to pick either pay or time off.

 

[Nevets]

It's not a big deal, but then management will file Ch. 11 for the ExpressJet side (not SkyWest), and you'll end up with a much worse contract in bankruptcy. It wouldn't even be that much of a sham bankruptcy either, since we are losing money for many quarters now.

Staying separate is not a viable plan, no matter how you spin it.

I guess you didn't listen to the earnings call. ExpressJet was cash flow positive for the first quarter. In any case, I'm ok of they shut the doors tomorrow. I suggest you get a plan B and C so you are not so beholden to this company and willing to sell us all out.

Didn't say you would (or we would) agree to it. Saying thats what they WANT, and they are about to cry poor - and jam Pinnacle, Comair, etc. at us. they don't like our vacation low, and they like your add pay less. Of course we all like it, and I sincerely doubt they would be able to wrestle it away. I have heard the MEC's are going down the 'meet in the middle' route of pick the pay, or the days off. (Or I imagine they will want to drop the concept of virtual credits.)

Meet in the middle? I'll believe it when I see the CRJ MEC move from their position of flightline or nothing. Meeting in the middle would be settling for smartpref with 5 hours of credit per vacation day. By the way, add pay doesn't really cost the company. I don't know where that misconception comes from. The company is salivating to bid on flying regardless of PNCL, CMR, EGL. In fact, it's some of their flying they want to bid on. We have the leverage there, not them!

I'm fine with choosing either the time off or the pay, but not both. Why should we get full pay for extending one week to 3 or 4 weeks of anyway. Just decide which one you want. Max time off with a pay hit or min time off with full pay. Thats probably the only way we get to keep the vacation low.

That's the status quo on the ERJ side.

 

[ASADriver]

I guess you didn't listen to the earnings call. ExpressJet was cash flow positive for the first quarter. In any case, I'm ok of they shut the doors tomorrow. I suggest you get a plan B and C so you are not so beholden to this company and willing to sell us all out.

Nice attitude. You don't speak for everyone. Nothing prevents you from leaving. I suggest you get a plan B and C. Many don't agree with you.

 

[Nevets]

Nice attitude. You don't speak for everyone. Nothing prevents you from leaving. I suggest you get a plan B and C. Many don't agree with you.

Thanks. The fact is that without you having a plan B and C, you give them leverage and sell everyone one out. I don't give a rats a$$ if you or anyone else don't agree with me. Trust me, I'll leave on my own terms one way or another, because I have a plan B and C.

 

[ASADriver]

That's the status quo on the ERJ side.

That was status quo at ASA at one time. Times change.

 

[ASADriver]

Thanks. The fact is that without you having a plan B and C, you give them leverage and sell everyone one out. I don't give a rats a$$ if you or anyone else don't agree with me. Trust me, I'll leave on my own terms one way or another, because I have a plan B and C.

Don't let the door hit you in the backside.

 

[JettBoii]

Popeyes on C is closed. RIP

 

[goahead]

Okay i wasn't gonna say anything but POPEYES are you kidding me? Sad Sad day my friends.

 

[Redan]

Well dayum. That kinda makes everything else shrink into irrelevancy.

 

[mtsupilot376]

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!


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