ASA - Future Schedules w/ Rigs

[John Pennekamp]

From my source, the CDO's have the same Duty Rig as a regular trip. However, CDO's do not have min-day of 3.75.

Example: A CDO with a 12 hour duty will pay credit of 6 hours. Every minute of Duty over 12 hours is a credit of 1 for 1, so, for example, a 14 hour Duty will pay 8 hours credit.

So all of the CDOs will be under 12 hours with a 4 hour break at the hotel. Nice.

 

[Speedtape]

So all of the CDOs will be under 12 hours with a 4 hour break at the hotel. Nice.

You can speculate on anything you want, I guess. However, I would submit that you should look at historical scheduling and new era dynamics and speculate. There may be some areas where they can make a few tweaks, but overall, most likely, not much will change.

Rigs are not designed to make you rich. The desired purpose is to force more efficient scheduling practices, when possible, then compensate for anything that falls outside the rig.

I have been told that we use the same pairing generator as Skywest. If that is so, then not much will change. Supposedly at Skywest, naps go very senior. That would suggest that there is compensatory credits for naps.

It is in the best interest of any company to make best use of their resources. Past practice would suggest that this has not been done. It probably want change much due to some other dynamics.

In the past, given static conditions, after several months, usually the schedules have improved as they had more time to manipulate the pairings and lines.
There were usually on major changes in schedules about 3 times a year. In between those times, the month to month, week to week, and day to day frequencies and schedules were almost always the same. This was the past, and before new marketing and scheduling strategies were implemented by "D."

In today's world, scheduling has been very dynamic, with markets changing back and forth, not only seasonally, but month to month, week to week, and day to day. "D" seems to be forecasting and matching future demand to right aircraft size on a monthly, weekly, and daily basis. RJ's, especially the 70's on longer hall markets, facilitate this rightsizing.

The mother ship marketing drops their needs on our scheduling at the last minute, supposedly. This creates havoc, and many times inefficient scheduling due to time constraints. In additon, some of the problem for Delta and Delta Connection pilots, is that frequencey changes throughout the week in certain markets. Thus, resulting in pairings varying with much frequency througout the week. Can you say chaos?

As an observation, the ATR seems to be much more insulated from this situation. Markets are pretty much set and don't change much. Frequency on a daily basis in those markets could be different, but proably not.

These rigs should serve us well. They will not be a panacea, but will compensate to some degree, from our perspective, for some of the practices that we encounter today. These scheduling practices and the new way they do business is helping their bottom line at "D." Load factors are high as a result, and they can now manipulate supply for the demand. Not much will change in that area.

To suggest that our company will make counter measures to negate the benefits of the duty rig, is laughable. Given the above circumstances, they are doing good to just put out a monthly schedule on time with the dwindling pilot supply. In fact, the time deadlines have not been met recently--of course, it is always the printer's fault.

Rigs will be a benefit.

 

[No Delay]

Interesting take on things.

And although you are probably correct...are you willing to bet the next 8 years of your life on it (that ASA's past scheduling habits will dictate their future behavior). Especially when we have the opportunity to make things better and remove a lot of the guess work.

Isn't that the purpose of a contract. To outline every detail so there is no guess work and no one is left hoping the other side does the right thing or acts in my best interest.

I believe, right now the door is open for change. If we want something to be better, this is the time to fix it...otherwise it will be another 5 - 8 years.

Of course, we haven't had a chance to see the details. Maybe these issues have been address. I only hope we don't jump the gun.

 

[Speedtape]

Interesting take on things.

And although you are probably correct...are you willing to bet the next 8 years of your life on it (that ASA's past scheduling habits will dictate their future behavior). Especially when we have the opportunity to make things better and remove a lot of the guess work.

Isn't that the purpose of a contract. To outline every detail so there is no guess work and no one is left hoping the other side does the right thing or acts in my best interest.

I believe, right now the door is open for change. If we want something to be better, this is the time to fix it...otherwise it will be another 5 - 8 years.

Of course, we haven't had a chance to see the details. Maybe these issues have been address. I only hope we don't jump the gun.

You bring up an interesting issue. Can you or I predict what will happen next month, year, or in 5 years. NO, because we do not have the business plan, if there is one. All we can really do is look at the past and present and try to address those things that are unpalatable. We did not invent the wheel on rigs. No contract will ever make things lock tight. It can only plug some of the holes--the ones we know about today. Rigs have been around for a long time. Again, rigs are not the panacea, they simply put some grease on the skids. We do not have duty rigs now or minimum day. Most would argue that both are an improvement.

If you have a better approach or more delailed plan, put it out there.

 

[No Delay]

Oh, I agree. Something is better than nothing. And we didn't have anything at ASA. And I in no way believe I could do a better job than our CNC...I am only discussing.

I am not saying it isn't better. I am only saying now is the time to make it the best we can. We will not have another chance for years to come. I only hope we (as a pilot group) don't become short sighted only seeing a 13 mil signing bonus.

Also, like I have said. Maybe the actual TA will close some of these gaps. We will see.

My idea: Extend the rig system. 1:2 rig on the first 3 days and a 1.5:2 rig on the 4th day. Then straight pay 1:1 on any 5 or 6 day flying.

It would encourage 3 day trips and allow the company to fly a pilot for longer if needed...while giving him fair compensation for the extended time away from his family.

Just an idea...

 

[Speedtape]

Oh, I agree. Something is better than nothing. And we didn't have anything at ASA. And I in no way believe I could do a better job than our CNC...I am only discussing.

I am not saying it isn't better. I am only saying now is the time to make it the best we can. We will not have another chance for years to come. I only hope we (as a pilot group) don't become short sighted only seeing a 13 mil signing bonus.

Also, like I have said. Maybe the actual TA will close some of these gaps. We will see.

My idea: Extend the rig system. 1:2 rig on the first 3 days and a 1.5:2 rig on the 4th day. Then straight pay 1:1 on any 5 or 6 day flying.

It would encourage 3 day trips and allow the company to fly a pilot for longer if needed...while giving him fair compensation for the extended time away from his family.

Just an idea...

Great idea, but I think it is too late.

 

[Papa Woody]

Great idea, but I think it is too late.

NO...it's not too late, moron.

VOTE NO!