ASA FAs about to sell out on PBS

[ifly4food]

Getting back to PBS, I agree it's coming. We pilots need to make sure it happens on our terms. What concerns me is that now AFA is going to do it and will get to pick the software and set the precedent. Once that's in place, it will be hard for us to demand a switch if we don't like it.

Also, I think the FAs are being sold fool's gold by their leadership. The chairwoman is the #1 FA, and almost all of her friends are in the top 10-20. Only one person in AFA leadership has been here less than 10 years. PBS benefits the senior at the expense of the junior. Of course AFA leadership thinks its a good thing!

Question is, do the mid level and junior FAs really know what they're getting themselves into? And how will their precedent affect us when we finally agree to it?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Getting back to PBS, I agree it's coming. We pilots need to make sure it happens on our terms. What concerns me is that now AFA is going to do it and will get to pick the software and set the precedent. Once that's in place, it will be hard for us to demand a switch if we don't like it.

Also, I think the FAs are being sold fool's gold by their leadership. The chairwoman is the #1 FA, and almost all of her friends are in the top 10-20. Only one person in AFA leadership has been here less than 10 years. PBS benefits the senior at the expense of the junior. Of course AFA leadership thinks its a good thing!

Question is, do the mid level and junior FAs really know what they're getting themselves into? And how will their precedent affect us when we finally agree to it?

I agree with you that we don't want AFA blazing the trail for us......But in all fairness I wanted our MEC to use it as a chip in our section 6 negotiations.....We didn't and now we will have to suffer any consequences that result.....

If you want our MEC to have more of a say.....then maybe they should get in there and start the negotiations per the side letter.....I'm afraid we have less leverage now then we did during section 6 however.....There are windows of opportunity and sometimes the next window is smaller than the previous one.......

 

[Jmoney]

No Idea.....

it wasnt like this wasnt expected to come. pbs will come but maybe now the fa's will hammer out the bugs. they still have to honor our work rules, and there will be some kind of 'gain' for it.

i wouldnt call it sell out, if they are happy with it then so be it, most of the airline world uses it, i dont see how it could make our delta schedule any worse

-Skipper-

Not to bash you personally, but in truth you have NO IDEA what you are talking about!!!!

The problem with PBS is that it is largely up to the company-they can make it sorta good or very bad.... Given our experiences here, I think we all know how ASA mgmt. will choose.

I have a few friends at other places that use PBS and they ALL, and I do stress ALL hate it with a passion!! These people mostly worked for crappy places before getting on with less crappy places (at least in terms of pay) and they all say the work rules are way better at any place without PBS.

The system I am familiar with will give you your exact preferences IF it can comply with all those preferences EXACTLY. If there is any parameter that it can't comply with, you are thrown into a pool with everyone else. From this point on, the lines are built according to the needs of the system-without any regard for what you have requested.... That means you are well and truly SCREWED TO THE WALL! From this point, seniority means absolutely nothing!!

No more predictable trips, no more predictable days off-it is all what the system builds with no real ability to go and prove that your were hosed.

One of my buds told me that even though he is in the top 50% of his list on his aircraft at his base, he has never held a weekend off-even though he would prefer that. He also told me that people way junior to him have not worked a weekend since finishing IOE. This is not based of bidding well, or using the system in an appropriate manner, it is all based on what the system needs-all based on blind luck.

Bottom line-pretty much everyone will fly a RELIEF LINE every month! How freaking awful would that be?

I am not sure about the FAs and how they will vote, but if their idiot union people buy off on this, they need some serious beat-down!!!!!

-Say goodbye to any possible semblance of "quality of life" when this PBS crap shows up! It will be way worse for the FAs because they will not even have to comply with the rest requirements we have.

-Sorry Skipp-you need to step away from the Kool Aid and smell the coffee-this one is real bad news!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

The problem with PBS is that it is largely up to the company-they can make it sorta good or very bad....

....no different than with hard lines....

....next.....

 

[Jmoney]

Bull.........

....no different than with hard lines....

....next.....

You really have no idea whatsoever, do you? Figures....

Hard lines with 3 days? Weekends off.... We do still have a few of them now-not with PBS-guaranteed.

Say goodbye to stuff like that-say goodbye to weekends off-no matter how long you have been here. You will get thrown into the "pool" and you will be completely hosed.

This is a horrible system-some people just have to taste bad milk to figure out how bad it is. This thing stinks to high heaven and we all can see it coming miles away. Unfortunately, ASA is populated by a large percentage of morons like you who will have to "give it a try" to find out how freaking horrible it is!

The people at other carriers I know who now work under PBS are not prima-donnas-they have put up with crap as bad as anyone here, yet they universally despise this PBS garbage.

I am trying to warn people who are capable of logical thought processes against this stuff. It is harmful-probably more harmful to QOL than anything we have ever seen. You need not concern yourself with such things Joe, as you are clearly not in the group I am trying to address.

-Go back to your trailer-down by the river!

 

[crjskipper]

money - i can name about 2 dozen pilots at continental and delta who use it daily. the co boys hate it for the most part, crappy and old system.

the delta guys like it, it changes bid paterns but they like it. no cool-aid, just realize that its the same thing in a different rapper. top guys love it, middle guys live with it and junior folks despise it. pretty much the same thing we have now, you just think you have control.

asa builds the lines, we bid on their creation, pbs lets us create the lines, more or less.

 

[Jmoney]

Agreed...

I agree in principle with what you say, but I have serious problems with thoughts of PBS at ASA.

The main issue I see is that it is near impossible to prove you got screwed. How are you supposed to show that your preferences were "more" or "less" complied with than anyone else's preferences? It is all so subjective.

I do agree that there are "better" and "worse" versions of PBS, but what I very much fear is that we will get stuck with a "worse" version because no one understands it well. ASA will no doubt try and shove something down our throats which trashes our QOL and benefits "efficiency." Consider how much is at stake here.

What are the two most important parts of airline flying to most folks? QOL and senority-right? It sure ain't the pay anymore.....Now with PBS we are potentially throwing both those things in the crapper-and for what benefit? We already cover the schedules just fine-and we even gave them a "ready reserve" system.... Why do we need PBS?

What really scares me is PD-the head of scheduling for ASA ALPA came up with our current scheduling section......

Not that it sucks from one end to the other, but it has some pretty big holes...... Remember "long-call" reserve? Well, we got it, and all it takes is a call from scheduling to convert all the rest of your days to short call reserve-lot of good that did. Great job on that one, PD!

Now, I am assuming PD will be working on PBS for us, and if the language for "long-call" reserve was this easy for him to screw up, just imagine what will happen with something as complex and all-encompassing as PBS! You can bet ol PD will commence amorous relations with the pooch on this one in grand fashion!

The thought of a PBS section negotiated by ol booger is almost as scary to me as the thought of ever having to share a cockpit with him again!

-YIKES!

 

[Capi_Cafre']

....no different than with hard lines....

....next.....

Actually it is a quite a bit different. If your group is considering PBS you should definitely have someone on your side of the table completely up to speed on how the scheduling parameters can be set-it's definitely not a one-size-fits-all thing. Without clearly codified constraints and enough transparency to see to it that they are honored it can be a QOL killer for a significant percentage of folks.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

SKYW is the cheeapest out there, they jammed an untried, untested PBS into the pilots butz. It still does not work that well, 2+ years later. The top 10% pretty much get what they want, everyone else gets left overs. Don't do it for any reason, no matter what is promised. SKYWs version has no transparency and you seniority is/will be chit.
PBR

I'm in top 10%...it still sucks! Hard line in our base used to give us 90 to 95 hours credit and 15, 16, or even 17 days off and with PBS(and bad pairings) I'm down to 11 and 12 days off with 75 to 80 credit hours!

 

[atlcrashpad]

Public Broadcasting System. The company is trying to get us to listen to more NPR so we can be more edumacated.

Aint day got reruns uf Soul Train on PBS........
Scrabble Board..... YYUBOYY.........

 

[spudskier]

One of my buds told me that even though he is in the top 50% of his list on his aircraft at his base, he has never held a weekend off-even though he would prefer that.

Not saying I disagree with what anyone is saying, but I'M in the top 50% on ASA's 200 list and have never had a weekend off (well I tried for a week on future open time and the trade board and finally got one last month) and that's with hard lines... tell me how my life changes? As for my perspective, it can't get much worse (p.s. not for lack of trying, I bid VERY carefully)

 

[ASADriver]

I have friends at Skywest and Comair who use PBS. They seem to like.

 

[sweptback]

Not that it sucks from one end to the other, but it has some pretty big holes...... Remember "long-call" reserve? Well, we got it, and all it takes is a call from scheduling to convert all the rest of your days to short call reserve-lot of good that did. Great job on that one, PD!

It's pretty standard for most long call reserve systems to have a mechanism for the company to convert you to short call in case of low coverage. As many reserves as we've had lately, I can't see them doing that and getting away with it (remember that we have access into all their files and computer systems to call them on their BS).

The devil is in the details. A few long call systems allow you to be converted a certain number of "times" -- but a "time" could be the remainder of reserve days in your bucket! Our system protects for that.

Is our scheduling section the best thing ever? Probably not. Does it kick the crap out of what we used to have? For sure. That being said, I'm not willing to throw it all away for PBS just because the FAs took the company's bait on this one.

 

[sweptback]

I have friends at Skywest and Comair who use PBS. They seem to like.

I haven't heard much from Comair folks on here, but why do the SkyWest folks get on here and say it sucks?

SkyWest uses a custom-made, most likely lowest bidder "solution" from an overseas company that probably doesn't know much about the needs of an airline. SkyWest wants to push this system on us because it's already developed and paid for. There are much better solutions out there, and that is why I'm confident our union will explore all of them and come up with the one that works the best for us, if we even choose to accept it. Remember, we don't have to do anything more than to talk to the company about PBS. If we don't like what they have to say... see ya in Contract 2010!

 

[buscap]

In all fairness to the FAs, I believe they are holding out for what is believed to be the best system in the industry. I could be wrong, but I think it's the system Alaska FAs have.

The lines suck so much as is, I'm willing to look at any option.

The Delta guys I get on my jumpseat seem to be fairly happy with their PBS, but every other pilot group I've talked to can't stand it.

In my opinion, just like line bidding, it's all about the Software and Contract language. And who knows, we may be able to get the kitchen sink in the deal.

But for me personally we would have to get the best software, tighter contract language than we have now, and a kitchen sink letter signing incentive.

Maybe the FAs getting it on property will give us a chance to see how it goes.

Let them be the lab mice!! (I'm not saying they need to eat more cheese)