ASA/expressjet & skywest

[skootertrash]

Forcing SKYW to merge all 3 groups kills the deal.

Besides, why would anyone want to merge all 3 groups? Since SKYW bought ASA we're better off than we've ever been and better off than the SKYW pilots. A merged list would only drag ASA down.

Please don't take offense to this. But You guys sound like battered women. How bad was it before you were bought? Just becuase your last pimp cut you doesn't mean this pimp is looking out for your best interests. I can't believe that this is the feeling of professional airline pilots. Sadly looking at your contract I think it must be.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I always advocated for ALPA Merger policy...

And yet you don't advocate ALPA.....How hypocritical of you.

Even during the PID.

And yet here you are, with 3 separate companies operating under the SKYW umbrella, and no PID?

 

[CFI2766]

And yet you don't advocate ALPA.....How hypocritical of you.



And yet here you are, with 3 separate companies operating under the SKYW umbrella, and no PID?

If no PID is required, why should we seek one?

 

[wms]

Please don't take offense to this. But You guys sound like battered women. How bad was it before you were bought? Just becuase your last pimp cut you doesn't mean this pimp is looking out for your best interests. I can't believe that this is the feeling of professional airline pilots. Sadly looking at your contract I think it must be.

It was miserable before, now it's pretty good. I think it could be a lot better with a few improvements in the MEC, which is what I'm hoping XE will bring here.

The guys who talk about whip-saw between ASA and SKYW are not entirely correct. There were a few carrots dangled before us that went to SKYW or other places. But I don't believe they were intended to come here anyway, the company just used them as a chip while they had the opportunity.

The company learned we won't cave for growth and since then there has been cooperation to make this a better place.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

If no PID is required, why should we seek one?

It wasn't required when DL purchased ASA and CMR yet your pal joemerchant sought one!

 

[CFI2766]

It wasn't required when DL purchased ASA and CMR yet your pal joemerchant sought one!

Well, let's see: Delta bought an ALPA carrier, two of them, actually, yet ALPA merger policy was not followed. Maybe a PID would have been a good thing.

 

[Nevets]

If you don't look out for yourselves, you are crazy.

Well, being non-union, I almost don't blame them. You almost have to just look out for yourself...DD.

The company say's it won't happen.. If they are forced to, im sure they have a out in the "offer" over it. And will split as fast as they can, regroup and buy someone else.

Oh good, then we found an out!

Forcing SKYW to merge all 3 groups kills the deal.

Besides, why would anyone want to merge all 3 groups? Since SKYW bought ASA we're better off than we've ever been and better off than the SKYW pilots. A merged list would only drag ASA down.

If they don't merge all three list, the next best thing is to kill the deal. A merged list will make three separate weak pilot groups one stronger group.

The situation is similar at ASA. I think the company, the union and the pilots work well together for the best interest of all involved. This will mean seniority integration, as well. I have also seen that the new reps at ASA are more political for their own gains than some in the past.

So both MECs have proven that they are more than willing to work with management yet JA and Co. are reluctant to one list us. Gee, I wonder why?

Please don't take offense to this. But You guys sound like battered women. How bad was it before you were bought? Just becuase your last pimp cut you doesn't mean this pimp is looking out for your best interests. I can't believe that this is the feeling of professional airline pilots. Sadly looking at your contract I think it must be.

Exactly what I was thinking. If things have improved that much since SKW bought you, it just tells me that you were treated very very bad before then.

The guys who talk about whip-saw between ASA and SKYW are not entirely correct. There were a few carrots dangled before us that went to SKYW or other places. But I don't believe they were intended to come here anyway, the company just used them as a chip while they had the opportunity.

The company learned we won't cave for growth and since then there has been cooperation to make this a better place.

Um, that is the worst kind of whipsaw there is. They used something that only they have true knowledge of to beat you over the head with. This is even worse then them just placing aircraft that were going to ASA over to SKW.

SKW his has to learn the lesson why tried to teach two years ago. That we wont cave on our scope language. Once they realize that maybe they can focus on making all of us a better place.

 

[centralpilot]

If things have improved that much since SKW bought you, it just tells me that you were treated very very bad before then.

Bingo!

 

[outtahere]

We were treated fine, we were just in negotiations for five years. Not sure if you've ever faced any adversity in your life, it sounds like your a golden spoon riddle rat who's always gotten everything you've wanted. If the majority of the XJT guys are like you, I hope they kill the deal, the last thing we need is a bunch of little future widgets running around.

 

[pipi]

Funny how you talk ALPA merger policy when it suits YOU!

He is just stating a fact. Whether he likes it or not, suits him or not, he only stated a fact. I think you spend way too much time looking for an excuse to lash at him. If you are going to do that, at least use valid, educated arguments. Just because he does not like ALPA, which is a right afforded by the US constitution, it does not mean he cannot use the word ALPA to make a statement. Grow up.

 

[rfa]

I for one welcome our new skywest overlords

 

[johnpeace]

Crap man, I barely even want to come back to this crap.

 

[STINKER]

We were treated fine, we were just in negotiations for five years. Not sure if you've ever faced any adversity in your life, it sounds like your a golden spoon riddle rat who's always gotten everything you've wanted. If the majority of the XJT guys are like you, I hope they kill the deal, the last thing we need is a bunch of little future widgets running around.

Widgets we are not...

 

[COOPERVANE]

I for one welcome our new skywest overlords

I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves!!

 

[sweptback]

Crap man, I barely even want to come back to this crap.

So don't come back?

 

[johnpeace]

So don't come back?

An option, but I don't think I'm ready to go that extreme yet.

I'll come back and give it 6 mos.

 

[ExHeloGuy]

Can someone explain why Express Jet was sold for the paultry cost of $133 million, with close to $100 million in the bank that would make the cost of over 200 50 seaters and over 2000 pilots for $33 million, the cost of 1 seventy seater. I'm confused as to why so cheap????

 

[79%N1]

http://www.mysmartrend.com/news-bri...evel-efficiency-airlines-industry-xjt-pncl-sk

 

[Nevets]

http://www.mysmartrend.com/news-bri...evel-efficiency-airlines-industry-xjt-pncl-sk

Revenue in the regionals is not apples to apples. For example, at XJT under the CAL CPA, CAL pays the leases and fuel for all aircraft and flights directly to the lessee or fuel vendor. In the UAL CPA, the rates take into account that XJT pays the sublease on the aircraft and pass the fuel costs along to UAL. Therefore, all that money is counted as revenue even though its not really revenue, its pass thru costs.

At the end of the 2nd quarter, XJT reported total assets minus liabilities of $171 million. So in other words, you can look at it as though SKW is buying XJT for 75 cents on the dollar (about a nickel less than two years ago).

 

[asayankee]

Can someone explain why Express Jet was sold for the paultry cost of $133 million, with close to $100 million in the bank that would make the cost of over 200 50 seaters and over 2000 pilots for $33 million, the cost of 1 seventy seater. I'm confused as to why so cheap????

XJT does not own any aircraft...they lease them from Continental.

 

[FL990]

Can someone explain why Express Jet was sold for the paultry cost of $133 million, with close to $100 million in the bank that would make the cost of over 200 50 seaters and over 2000 pilots for $33 million, the cost of 1 seventy seater. I'm confused as to why so cheap????

Its not exactly that simple. You have to look at several things as it is not just a matter of how much cash is on hand. You have to look at all assets and liabilities (as someone else pointed out) as well as net income (or loss) generated by those assets. In the case of XJT, they have not generated net profit for quite some time, so the company is devalued.

To give a simplistic example, lets say a person has 2 trucks that are used in a privately owned moving company. The trucks have a current value of, say $100,000 (combined) and he owes $50,000. Also, he has various other tools, office, and assets, which combined, are worth $40,000 and his liabilities (debt) on them are $10,000. The business also has $10,000 in cash. Now, the assets to liablilities would be $150,000 (assets) to $60,000 (debt) netting out at +$90,000. Problem is, the company is losing money, so he wants to sell. Now, put yourself in the BUYERS shoes. You see the books and see that all those assets are generating an annual loss, which if you purchase, you will either inherit or perhaps combine them with your current profitable moving business to expand, turning loss generating assets into profit generating assets, partly through economies of scale, and also through renegotiating contracts that the seller already has. Thus, the value of the business is subjective, both to you and the seller. Now, it comes down to what they are willing to accept to get out from under the burden of owning the assets (which again, create a loss) verses what you, the buyer, who can generate income from the assets, are willing to pay. Because the need to sell is greater than the need to buy, generally the seller is willing to sell at a discount in order to relieve themselve of this burden. This is especially true when there is not a "line out the door" to buy.

Ok, so after reading this example, its a bit less "simplistic" than I intended, but still much more so than the object of comparison.

 

[rumorhasit]

In my opinion, this was set up along time ago during the first attempt. CAL used skywest as a whipsaw against XJT. Skywest was the killer but CAL was the accomplice. Skywest managent does not consider Unions and all it intails to protect against managements whims. XJT MUST hold strong to their contract or they will never have the quality of life and pay they deserve. XJT ALPA must get the best legal team and challenge this purchase if there are questions.

I worked there(non-flying) for almost 10 years and I knew things would get bad when the first 70 aircraft left the property. It was a great company run by good management who was pretty fair trying to go it alone. I wish all my previous coworkers from the crosstrained agent (who did three jobs to CALs one) to the guys and gals in SOCC to the pilots and flight attendants who kept things going. Good luck guys!!!!

 

[Tarzan]

XJT MUST hold strong to their contract or they will never have the quality of life and pay they deserve. XJT ALPA must get the best legal team and challenge this purchase if there are questions.
!

News Flash!!!!!! None of get what we believe we should! They won't have to work very hard to blow it up either. I suspect Jerry will pull the plug if XJT guys ask for something he isn't willing to do like merge all three companies. Chest thumping with Inc in this situation benefits no one! Merge the two groups, realize the merger synergy savings and get as big a piece of it as we can.

To make this work out in our best interest, we need to achieve some ironclad scope. The company can of course do whatever they choose in regards to this but if the language is right, we can win any arbitration. JA sees some big money signs here. We may be holding some extra leverage here between our two groups to get some very good protections from being whipsawed against the apathetic OO pilots.

 

[rumorhasit]

I agree with your post completely and I understand this will be worked out by others that know the contract language and it's interpolation better than I. I was only voicing frustration of seeing things end up like this. It kindda like growing up in a childhood home and having fond memories and then coming back several years later and you find out it's a strip club or something. (not that emp of express are, just trying to make a point).

 

[outtahere]

We may be holding some extra leverage here between our two groups to get some very good protections from being whipsawed against the apathetic OO pilots.[/QUOTE]

One correction here, skywest pilots are just pathetic, not apathetic.

 

[wms]

And there's no whip-sawing.

Also, XJet is an excellent company that may not have been run well the last few years. I think SKYW,Inc knows they can make it very profitable with some corporate changes. Knowing SKYW,Inc I'm sure they did their homework and also dicussed the deal with UAL to be sure there would be future opportunities. It's not like JA to throw the dice and cross his fingers. He doesn't make a move unless he knows where he will end up and is sure it will work out.

 

[Whydoitry]

Atkin the messiah, all knowing and never wrong.