ASA/expressjet & skywest

[sweptback]

1. WRONG ! pbs does not benefit pilots! (once you see what we can do without pbs, you'll wonder, like us, why you ever let it happen?). xjt pilots are adamant about NO pbs

You guys act like you're the only pilot group with good workrules. Our contract provided for vacation trip-touch drops, too. As far as I can tell the only difference between you guys and us is that you get paid guarantee no matter how little you fly, but we don't.

The other thing is you guys don't seem to realize that we had a pretty good line bidding system, and almost 90% of our pilots chose to vote in PBS. We shared in approximately half of the savings the company realized, and realized work rule, pay, and benefit improvement across the entire contract.

Obviously the ASA pilots thought that PBS was a better system than what we had before. Don't just think that because CAL has a terrible system that they're all like that.

 

[ASA Captain]

Look, some of you just don't understand. ASA guys were absolutely dead set against PBS in contract 07. We blocked it. We kept it out of section 6 and the NMB gun under Bush. We negotiated the terms outside of section 6 and made sure it worked for us not just the company. We voted it in by 87%. That's not even close. And now that we are training I have guys who voted no saying they think it will really benefit our group.
Only time will tell.

Y'all better have the notes on the intent of your meter clause. Also you better find a really good lawyer and a pocket full o' cash. Because, I bet the ALPA lawyers will advise your MEC to save its money and focus on the real issues. Y'all down in IAH, and I can say y'all cuz I live there, have the most pro-business judges in the US. Maybe if you can find a OO guy to file it out in St. George.

 

[Nevets]

You guys act like you're the only pilot group with good workrules. Our contract provided for vacation trip-touch drops, too. As far as I can tell the only difference between you guys and us is that you get paid guarantee no matter how little you fly, but we don't.

That is a HUGE difference! In fact, that makes all the difference. When you can work fly 40 hours and be paid at least 75 two to four times a month, that brings up your pay per block hour you fly each year. And pay per block hour flown is thee true measure of a good contract.

 

[79%N1]

That is a HUGE difference! In fact, that makes all the difference. When you can work fly 40 hours and be paid at least 75 two to four times a month, that brings up your pay per block hour you fly each year. And pay per block hour flown is thee true measure of a good contract.

I get all that, and I'm all for it! However, in an age of competition for all Regional flying - especially in the DCI network - how long can a company sustain that type of cost? In a time where all flying continually goes to bid, and with cheaper companies out there ready to underbid you each time and take your flying, these types of contractual benefits may be unsustainable. ASA/XJ will be a very senior company. Companies like Pinnacle, Trans States, Mesa, etc will be ready and able to jump in and take our former business. ASA has to remain competitive, or lose out ultimately. So, if it is unsustainable to pay 4300 pilots 75 hours to fly 40 3-4 times per year, then so be it. That's 12,900 vacation periods per year. At a difference of 35 hours between that 40 hours flown and 75 hours pay you guys speak of is 451,500 hours of pay per year the company would pay out for hours of work not done. If the average pay rate for all pilots is $50/hr, that amount to $22,575,000 PER YEAR! I hardly think that is a reasonable thing to ask management to endure. Do I want to get it? ABSOLUTELY! Do I think a Regional Airline can endure that type of cost? No way.

 

[sweptback]

That is a HUGE difference! In fact, that makes all the difference. When you can work fly 40 hours and be paid at least 75 two to four times a month, that brings up your pay per block hour you fly each year. And pay per block hour flown is thee true measure of a good contract.

Well so after vacation credits and whatnot, an ASA pilot would get about 65 hours (if they choose to work the least) and an XJT pilot would get 75. That's a big deal, but it's not 40 vs. 75 like you make it seem. But, as I said earlier, with PBS, nobody gets paid less than guarantee. And with our system, it is possible to extend your vacation to get 20+ days off in a month.

The other thing that you're overlooking is that not everybody wants to work as little as possible during a vacation month. There are plenty of people who want to max out their credit that month, and I've heard of guys hitting 120+ in a vacation month.

There are many pilots here with block times in the mid 60s and credit in the 90s. If anything, your vacation rules, while good, probably benefit the average pilot less than our min day (soon to be 3.86). On a given month, I probably hit the min day about once per four day trip. Over the course of the year, that would definitely pay me more than vacation workrules.

 

[79%N1]

Exactly Swept. I keep hearing from XJ pilots I know how they can't or won't (not sure they have a choice) go for this because of one provision like PBS or vacation pay. They all refuse to look at the whole picture. In fact, how viable is their company going forward alone? Will their contracts get extended with United going forward, or are they too costly as is?

At any rate, the "we're not going to accept this or that" rhetoric needs to end, and we need to together find a solution that make the 'New' Atlantic Southeast viable going forward long-term!

 

[outtahere]

I was a firm no vote on PBS, and still am wholly against it for the time being. we will see in a few days where I stand on this issue. However, I personally think its foolish for the XJT guys to blow up a deal because of PBS, and Skywest pilots. We can do more together than alone, and honestly, XJT was in a downhill slide before this came about. Don't let arrogance ruin a chance at what could be a very good company to work for.

Remember Midwest?

 

[Mach92]

I get all that, and I'm all for it! However, in an age of competition for all Regional flying - especially in the DCI network - how long can a company sustain that type of cost? In a time where all flying continually goes to bid, and with cheaper companies out there ready to underbid you each time and take your flying, these types of contractual benefits may be unsustainable. ASA/XJ will be a very senior company. Companies like Pinnacle, Trans States, Mesa, etc will be ready and able to jump in and take our former business. ASA has to remain competitive, or lose out ultimately. So, if it is unsustainable to pay 4300 pilots 75 hours to fly 40 3-4 times per year, then so be it. That's 12,900 vacation periods per year. At a difference of 35 hours between that 40 hours flown and 75 hours pay you guys speak of is 451,500 hours of pay per year the company would pay out for hours of work not done. If the average pay rate for all pilots is $50/hr, that amount to $22,575,000 PER YEAR! I hardly think that is a reasonable thing to ask management to endure. Do I want to get it? ABSOLUTELY! Do I think a Regional Airline can endure that type of cost? No way.

Ford & Harrison

 

[outtahere]

Like it or not, he's right. I want $200,000 to fly an Rj also, but the reality is, the market won't bear it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ford & Harrison

...or reality and competition caused partially by a failure to secure brand scope...