ASA/expressjet & skywest

[Nevets]

I don't know what was said in your MEC meeting, but PBS isn't necessarily a concession. It's a 4% savings to the company, that much I agree. But what if a pilot group was able to shape the PBS language into a way that benefited them while still saving the company money? And what if that same pilot group shared in half of the savings to the company resulting in increased pay, benefits, and work rules? Is that still a concession?

Well, I told you what he said. But you are right. I'm not necesarily against PBS. As long as it pay and qol neutral.

 

[COEX-FO]

Here is how I see it playing out: Of course XJT ALPA is going to get advice from our legal counsel and maybe even take it to arbitration but I doubt that the SkyWest, Inc. lawyers and management went through with this without knowing full well that they got around our scope. The guys that wrote our contract back in 03/04 were very smart guys (most at CAL now) but even the best written contracts tend to have a few loopholes here and there and it wouldn't surprise me that they found one (by making ASA a holding company).

I'm about 101% sure you are absolutely correct in your statement above!

One HUGE difference between this time and 2 years ago is the XJT stock price! Upon this announcement, the stock doubled in value! There is a lot of money at stake here and many will stand to gain millions; and with a very few exceptions none are on either seniority list!

The money will prevail over the arguments of ALPA and the scope language. Just my opinion.

 

[johnpeace]

Why did XJT take concessions?

..or get sold?

 

[Nevets]

Drop the 3 way merger.....It is NOT going to happen. If that is the sticking issue and XJ can uphold it in court if they so choose, the deal is off. That may be the best thing for all parties.

That's ok with me. For me personally after seeing for myself the Inc whipsaw, I rather stay independent of skw than to let this blatant disrespect for our pilots and contract go without trying to uphold it. It's too bad JA is making everyone lawyer up over this.

 

[buscap]

Drop the 3 way merger.....It is NOT going to happen. If that is the sticking issue and XJ can uphold it in court if they so choose, the deal is off. That may be the best thing for all parties.

The three way may very well be dropped, but at what price? Dropping it needs to be properly paid for, or the Express guys have every right to kill this deal and come what may.

It's their contract and choice, not the ASA pilot's. We may just have to get to be a "super regional" the old fashioned way.

 

[Medeco]

The three way may very well be dropped, but at what price? Dropping it needs to be properly paid for, or the Express guys have every right to kill this deal and come what may.

It's their contract and choice, not the ASA pilot's. We may just have to get to be a "super regional" the old fashioned way.

I agree, I think they will try to buy it off. I think they will try to buy off the XJT pilots on PBS too.

The question is for what price. Everything is for sale.

 

[cybourg10]

That's ok with me. For me personally after seeing for myself the Inc whipsaw, I rather stay independent of skw than to let this blatant disrespect for our pilots and contract go without trying to uphold it. It's too bad JA is making everyone lawyer up over this.

I would try not to take this personally, he isn't trying to harm us. He is trying to get the best deal he can for his company which is what he is paid to do, no different than us trying to get all we can during negotiations. I would rather have JA than any leader we have had, I want to be a part of a profitable airline again. We are better off as part of Inc than on our own. We need to separate our distaste for this deal from economic reality that we will never be profitable and hence lose more of our great contract. I know what the spirit if the contract says but spirit does not always hold up in court. There is more value in this deal more us even just with ASA than going at it alone. Lets not be ideologues and forget that at the end of the day it is business and a profitable ASA is better than a bankrupt XJT.

 

[JoeMerchant]

As for large RJs I understand your point of view and just disagree but I never said I don't want my company to grow.

I don't think you really do understand my point of view. They aren't "large RJs"...They are airplanes. I don't care if it has 2 seats or 500 seats, it's simply an airplane. It was management along WITH ALPA, APA, and the mainline pilots who try to define airplanes as "regional" and "mainline".

I don't care how big an airplane fly, but I want my company to grow. More and larger airplanes will be good for my company. I'm sorry ALPA screwed this issue up and mainline egos were to big to fit in these "RJ" cockpits, but that isn't my problem. I tried years ago with the single list/brand scope debate....Didn't work...

This is not an ego thing for me, it's about the profession and being treated fairly, equitably, and with respect for our contract and it's covered employees. I don't mind being bought even if we still had $300M in the bank. I'm not against buying of being bought. I'm against blatant disregard for the pilots contract.

The ALPA pilots at ASA have never been treated more fairly, equitably and with respect than they have since Jerry purchased us...something to think about. You may want to try and work with him rather than come out swinging...

Skywest is actually doing what many of us wanted ALPA to do....He is actually reducing the competition amongst regionals...Something you should support rather than attack.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would try not to take this personally, he isn't trying to harm us. He is trying to get the best deal he can for his company which is what he is paid to do, no different than us trying to get all we can during negotiations. I would rather have JA than any leader we have had, I want to be a part of a profitable airline again. We are better off as part of Inc than on our own. We need to separate our distaste for this deal from economic reality that we will never be profitable and hence lose more of our great contract. I know what the spirit if the contract says but spirit does not always hold up in court. There is more value in this deal more us even just with ASA than going at it alone. Lets not be ideologues and forget that at the end of the day it is business and a profitable ASA is better than a bankrupt XJT.

Buy this man a beer!:beer:

 

[Whydoitry]

What's the point of any contract if the XJT scope is not enforced? The intent is clear and I'm sure the '04 negotiators will testify to it. I do think that we are better off with this merger but I would rather it fall apart than have our contract violated. If JA wants to negotiate, then I'm all ears, but it's going to be very difficult to convince me to vote for anything that keeps a potential whipsaw in place. Should the deal fall apart, so be it. XJT mgt has lost all the good will it had with this pilot group and literally every pilot I fly with has said they just don't care anymore.

 

[COEX-FO]

but it's going to be very difficult to convince me to vote for anything that keeps a potential whipsaw in place. Should the deal fall apart, so be it. XJT mgt has lost all the good will it had with this pilot group and literally every pilot I fly with has said they just don't care anymore.

I'm not so sure you (or any pilot for that matter) is going to get to vote on the acquisition or even the integrated seniority list. What you will get to vote on will be the JOINT CBA. That's how I see it.

 

[Medeco]

I'm not so sure you (or any pilot for that matter) is going to get to vote on the acquisition or even the integrated seniority list. What you will get to vote on will be the JOINT CBA. That's how I see it.

Exactly. Like it or not.

 

[centralpilot]

I'm not so sure you (or any pilot for that matter) is going to get to vote on the acquisition or even the integrated seniority list. What you will get to vote on will be the JOINT CBA. That's how I see it.

Yep. The only pilots that have direct input on the SLI are the pilots on the SLI committee, which is separate from the JCBA committee. Even these guys will have no vote if it winds up going to binding arbitration.

 

[airtime42]

What's the point of any contract if the XJT scope is not enforced? The intent is clear and I'm sure the '04 negotiators will testify to it. I do think that we are better off with this merger but I would rather it fall apart than have our contract violated. If JA wants to negotiate, then I'm all ears, but it's going to be very difficult to convince me to vote for anything that keeps a potential whipsaw in place. Should the deal fall apart, so be it. XJT mgt has lost all the good will it had with this pilot group and literally every pilot I fly with has said they just don't care anymore.

I think that most of us at ASA support the integration of all three lists. I have told our alpa leaders that for the last year. I agree you XJT guys should hold the line for one list and ASA guys should back you up. No payoff deals. One list is more important. Think of the power we would have with 7000 voices.

 

[Nevets]

I would try not to take this personally, he isn't trying to harm us. He is trying to get the best deal he can for his company which is what he is paid to do, no different than us trying to get all we can during negotiations. I would rather have JA than any leader we have had, I want to be a part of a profitable airline again. We are better off as part of Inc than on our own. We need to separate our distaste for this deal from economic reality that we will never be profitable and hence lose more of our great contract. I know what the spirit if the contract says but spirit does not always hold up in court. There is more value in this deal more us even just with ASA than going at it alone. Lets not be ideologues and forget that at the end of the day it is business and a profitable ASA is better than a bankrupt XJT.

Sure, I know its business. And I understand he has a fiduciary responsibility solely to the shareholders of SKYW. That doesn't mean you don't treat people with dignity and respect. It doesn't matter how smart, good, or rich he or Inc is, what he is doing is not good business ethics. I rather take my chances, however little you think they are, by staying independent than being a part of this. We bring great value to SKW and that is why he is going to all this trouble and compromising his ethics to make it happen. We will bring great value to someone else as well. CAL is not going to sit by and let us go by the way side either as we bring great value to them as well. I'll take my chances with an arbitrator or lawyer because frankly, there is nothing to lose. If we lose that battle, fine, we move on to the next one during JCBA. But don't sell yourself short just because someone is dangling a big mansion for you to live in now.

I don't think you really do understand my point of view. They aren't "large RJs"...They are airplanes. I don't care if it has 2 seats or 500 seats, it's simply an airplane. It was management along WITH ALPA, APA, and the mainline pilots who try to define airplanes as "regional" and "mainline".

I don't care how big an airplane fly, but I want my company to grow. More and larger airplanes will be good for my company. I'm sorry ALPA screwed this issue up and mainline egos were to big to fit in these "RJ" cockpits, but that isn't my problem. I tried years ago with the single list/brand scope debate....Didn't work...

Yeah, thats exactly what I understood you to think. So we only disagree on the gauge of the aircraft that should be outsourced. That's fine. I agree to disagree with you on that and move on.

The ALPA pilots at ASA have never been treated more fairly, equitably and with respect than they have since Jerry purchased us...something to think about. You may want to try and work with him rather than come out swinging...

Skywest is actually doing what many of us wanted ALPA to do....He is actually reducing the competition amongst regionals...Something you should support rather than attack.

If that is true, then from my point of view and how JA and BR treated us, it just doesn't say much about your previous managment. And I never said I'm not for consolidation and some reduction of competition so we agree there as well.

What's the point of any contract if the XJT scope is not enforced? The intent is clear and I'm sure the '04 negotiators will testify to it. I do think that we are better off with this merger but I would rather it fall apart than have our contract violated. If JA wants to negotiate, then I'm all ears, but it's going to be very difficult to convince me to vote for anything that keeps a potential whipsaw in place. Should the deal fall apart, so be it. XJT mgt has lost all the good will it had with this pilot group and literally every pilot I fly with has said they just don't care anymore.

Buy this man a beer!:beer: