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ASA / Comair growth
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General Lee
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Fins,
You are correct, I was not there--on purpose---and read from the Dalpa forum that only 100 or so people attended--from someone who did. They did invite everyone, and if only 250 or 300 showed up, it was still a poor showing. There was a message in that showing, that most of us are tired of being singled out to take cuts when we have a contract that is enforceable. Sure, it would not be if we were Chap 11, but as our leader Leo and the CFO stated----we are in NO DANGER OF GOING CHAP 11. Now, that may or may not be true, but DALPA is watching this closely and have the books. They knew that it would be in our best interest to give some pay back, but since when can't we have it back when times get better? Oh yes, I guess they never will, right? We heard this same speach in 1994---this statement was used "The industry has changed forever...."
As far as the other employee groups, I care about them, but they did not protect themselves. I, along with all of the ALPA memebers, pay monthly dues (I paid almost $3,000 last year) to protect myself. The other employees rolled the dice and said they would trust the company. Well, it is time to cash in on their trust. Yes, we make a lot more than AA or UAL pilots, but we do not have the same exact problems---- like losing a plane during 9-11 or buying a near bankrupt company. But, there is one common problem----debt. We all have to address this debt problem---not only the pilots. When you say we are paid more than our peers, well--so is Comair. Comair pilots are paid the highest rates in the regionals, and a lot more than Chataqua and Mesa pilots---so I guess they should give back a lot too, right? If it is all about being close to our peers, right? You guys at ASA should give in right now and accept Mesa wages. How about you accept Mesa plus 5%---that might be better. We are not saying we won't help, and our offer still stands, they walked away. We are not the problem, and want to be a PART of the solution. I wish nobody had to take cuts---but this is the way it goes when you don't protect yourself.
I am glad that Fred Reid poured his heart out to you. Did you ask him about the $65 million in off shore pensions the execs have stashed away? How about no bonuses when everyone else is taking cuts? Oh yes, they are just "retention bonuses." Did he try to sell you a bridge? If we gave 15% of our pay it would equal about $270 million a year in savings, and I think they could have had it right away, if only they had agreed to eventually give it back--when times get better. And, we are not in a 60 degree nosedive--we just had a $184 million profit for the 2nd quarter (yes, I know--the Gov't money helped big time)---but that just brought our nose up a full 10 degrees!!!!!! Fred Reid won't go to Virgin because he would have to take a HUGE pay cut---and obviously we are all in this for the MONEY--right? Those potential cuts you talked about would suck, but no furloughs would ensue due to our No furlough clause. I just don't think they could do that.(No furloughing, even if we are UNPROFITABLE) Our VP of Flt OPs recently said that they would be bringing 9 or so 737-200s out of the desert, and why would they do that? Also FINS, since we signed that contract, we are down 2500 total pilots. We, as a whole, do NOT cost the same as pre-911---we have lost 1/4 of our pilots to furloughs and retirement. Sure, we are expensive, but they have known the fixed costs since the signing, and we are down 2500 pilots. Delta also let go another 14,500 other employees, and added kiosks for check in. We are not the same sized company as pre-9-11. That will help us when things turn around, but the company wants to cut our pay FOREVER. What if things get a lot better in 5 years? They would have sold us out and Leo would say, "Hey boys, AGAIN, a Contract is a Contract."
Fins, we want to help, but we all will be a part of this, and that unfortuanately might include them asking everyone eventually. I think management will eventually capitulate and get a bunch of cash from all of us pronto--and we will all live happily ever after--as a disfuctional family. I love you guys.
Bye Bye--General Lee
You are correct, I was not there--on purpose---and read from the Dalpa forum that only 100 or so people attended--from someone who did. They did invite everyone, and if only 250 or 300 showed up, it was still a poor showing. There was a message in that showing, that most of us are tired of being singled out to take cuts when we have a contract that is enforceable. Sure, it would not be if we were Chap 11, but as our leader Leo and the CFO stated----we are in NO DANGER OF GOING CHAP 11. Now, that may or may not be true, but DALPA is watching this closely and have the books. They knew that it would be in our best interest to give some pay back, but since when can't we have it back when times get better? Oh yes, I guess they never will, right? We heard this same speach in 1994---this statement was used "The industry has changed forever...."
As far as the other employee groups, I care about them, but they did not protect themselves. I, along with all of the ALPA memebers, pay monthly dues (I paid almost $3,000 last year) to protect myself. The other employees rolled the dice and said they would trust the company. Well, it is time to cash in on their trust. Yes, we make a lot more than AA or UAL pilots, but we do not have the same exact problems---- like losing a plane during 9-11 or buying a near bankrupt company. But, there is one common problem----debt. We all have to address this debt problem---not only the pilots. When you say we are paid more than our peers, well--so is Comair. Comair pilots are paid the highest rates in the regionals, and a lot more than Chataqua and Mesa pilots---so I guess they should give back a lot too, right? If it is all about being close to our peers, right? You guys at ASA should give in right now and accept Mesa wages. How about you accept Mesa plus 5%---that might be better. We are not saying we won't help, and our offer still stands, they walked away. We are not the problem, and want to be a PART of the solution. I wish nobody had to take cuts---but this is the way it goes when you don't protect yourself.
I am glad that Fred Reid poured his heart out to you. Did you ask him about the $65 million in off shore pensions the execs have stashed away? How about no bonuses when everyone else is taking cuts? Oh yes, they are just "retention bonuses." Did he try to sell you a bridge? If we gave 15% of our pay it would equal about $270 million a year in savings, and I think they could have had it right away, if only they had agreed to eventually give it back--when times get better. And, we are not in a 60 degree nosedive--we just had a $184 million profit for the 2nd quarter (yes, I know--the Gov't money helped big time)---but that just brought our nose up a full 10 degrees!!!!!! Fred Reid won't go to Virgin because he would have to take a HUGE pay cut---and obviously we are all in this for the MONEY--right? Those potential cuts you talked about would suck, but no furloughs would ensue due to our No furlough clause. I just don't think they could do that.(No furloughing, even if we are UNPROFITABLE) Our VP of Flt OPs recently said that they would be bringing 9 or so 737-200s out of the desert, and why would they do that? Also FINS, since we signed that contract, we are down 2500 total pilots. We, as a whole, do NOT cost the same as pre-911---we have lost 1/4 of our pilots to furloughs and retirement. Sure, we are expensive, but they have known the fixed costs since the signing, and we are down 2500 pilots. Delta also let go another 14,500 other employees, and added kiosks for check in. We are not the same sized company as pre-9-11. That will help us when things turn around, but the company wants to cut our pay FOREVER. What if things get a lot better in 5 years? They would have sold us out and Leo would say, "Hey boys, AGAIN, a Contract is a Contract."
Fins, we want to help, but we all will be a part of this, and that unfortuanately might include them asking everyone eventually. I think management will eventually capitulate and get a bunch of cash from all of us pronto--and we will all live happily ever after--as a disfuctional family. I love you guys.
Bye Bye--General Lee
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General Lee's Biggest Fan
I must admit I do enjoy most of your comments. You do a good job of distributing the latest info at Delta. I just completed my first year of being furloughed from Delta. I started flying for Chautauqua in June and was furloughed from them on AUG 1st 2003. This is ironic since I was furloughed from Delta on AUG 1st 2002. The guys and Gals over at CHQ were great however the operation as a whole just reminded me how bad I want to return to Delta. To all the Delta pilots who are still working, I know things are difficult right now but remember that there are 1310 furloughed pilots that would give almost anything to trade places with you. I hope you guys make the right decisions in the months to come. This is a balancing act between returning the company to profitablity and insuring that Delta pilots will continue to lead the industry in the future. I want the job to be worth something when I return!
T.K. +810
I must admit I do enjoy most of your comments. You do a good job of distributing the latest info at Delta. I just completed my first year of being furloughed from Delta. I started flying for Chautauqua in June and was furloughed from them on AUG 1st 2003. This is ironic since I was furloughed from Delta on AUG 1st 2002. The guys and Gals over at CHQ were great however the operation as a whole just reminded me how bad I want to return to Delta. To all the Delta pilots who are still working, I know things are difficult right now but remember that there are 1310 furloughed pilots that would give almost anything to trade places with you. I hope you guys make the right decisions in the months to come. This is a balancing act between returning the company to profitablity and insuring that Delta pilots will continue to lead the industry in the future. I want the job to be worth something when I return!
T.K. +810
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General,
You can increase the flying percentage for DCI, but it won't do a thing for ASA or Comair (not that you would want to do anything for Comair). DCI will just give more of your flying to Chit. Maybe you could try a J4J with Chit or Republic. That would let you avoid dealing with the ASA and Comair MEC's and avoid problems within ALPA (Chit is represented by the Teamsters). Maybe that is a way to get your furloughed guts back in an aircraft.
You can increase the flying percentage for DCI, but it won't do a thing for ASA or Comair (not that you would want to do anything for Comair). DCI will just give more of your flying to Chit. Maybe you could try a J4J with Chit or Republic. That would let you avoid dealing with the ASA and Comair MEC's and avoid problems within ALPA (Chit is represented by the Teamsters). Maybe that is a way to get your furloughed guts back in an aircraft.
General Lee
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Sleepy,
Believe it or not, I don't have anything against the Comair pilots, just their MEC and Chair. (But, I won't get into that again). I think you are right, Comair and ASA might not be getting much more of the DCI flying because the Delta well has dried up for the moment, and Chataqua is funded by people who might have more cash. Delta will probably give the flying to whoever has the ability right now---and that would be Chataqua and Skywest. But, they might come to you and ask you for money in order to expand---I wouldn't put it past them.
JMorgan,
I am sorry you were furloughed not only by Delta, but then again by Chataqua. I bet you will get recalled over there soon. As far as Delta is concerned, I bet you will be back sooner than you think. As you know from reading this board, I am one of your biggest supporters and won't be totally happy until TBKANE is back. I recently voted YES on the Cobra vote, and I continually querry Dalpa about their handling of furlough issues--like the upcoming grievance. I think we are heading in the right direction and I am very happy we filed for that grievance. I know that furloughs are a natural thing in this business, but I think ours was excessive and hope that they start recalling soon. IF you do go back to Chataqua, enjoy that advanced Emb145 or Emb135---you will be flying steam gauges on the 737-200 when you return. And, I trust Dalpa is looking out for the company and us--it is a thin line, but I do trust them. So far, they have been doing a pretty good job, and I am glad they didn't cave in initially. Good luck.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Believe it or not, I don't have anything against the Comair pilots, just their MEC and Chair. (But, I won't get into that again). I think you are right, Comair and ASA might not be getting much more of the DCI flying because the Delta well has dried up for the moment, and Chataqua is funded by people who might have more cash. Delta will probably give the flying to whoever has the ability right now---and that would be Chataqua and Skywest. But, they might come to you and ask you for money in order to expand---I wouldn't put it past them.
JMorgan,
I am sorry you were furloughed not only by Delta, but then again by Chataqua. I bet you will get recalled over there soon. As far as Delta is concerned, I bet you will be back sooner than you think. As you know from reading this board, I am one of your biggest supporters and won't be totally happy until TBKANE is back. I recently voted YES on the Cobra vote, and I continually querry Dalpa about their handling of furlough issues--like the upcoming grievance. I think we are heading in the right direction and I am very happy we filed for that grievance. I know that furloughs are a natural thing in this business, but I think ours was excessive and hope that they start recalling soon. IF you do go back to Chataqua, enjoy that advanced Emb145 or Emb135---you will be flying steam gauges on the 737-200 when you return. And, I trust Dalpa is looking out for the company and us--it is a thin line, but I do trust them. So far, they have been doing a pretty good job, and I am glad they didn't cave in initially. Good luck.
Bye Bye--General Lee
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General Lee
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Jmorgan,
You bet, I know you would do it for me if I were in your shoes. Just hang in there and enjoy the Jungle Jet if you get to fly it, but don't get too comfortable---hopefully a 737 or similar plane will be waiting for you soon. I also want to thank all of the Chataqua pilots for allowing our furloughs to fly there. That will not be forgotten, and also thanks to the ASA guys.
Bye Bye--General Lee 
You bet, I know you would do it for me if I were in your shoes. Just hang in there and enjoy the Jungle Jet if you get to fly it, but don't get too comfortable---hopefully a 737 or similar plane will be waiting for you soon. I also want to thank all of the Chataqua pilots for allowing our furloughs to fly there. That will not be forgotten, and also thanks to the ASA guys.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Skull-One
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General Lee
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ACE,
If it were up to them, probably very slowly over 10 years. I think they will have to call back atleast 250 of the "War Emergency" furloughs after our grievance hearing on OCT 28th---but there have been things said from high level people---one an outgoing or retiring pilot incharge of Flight training I believe----that they could start calling them back in late Sept. A lot might have to do with the number of early retirements on Sept 1st. I have read on our Dalpa forum that the difference in lump sums for guys with 25 years could be as high as $75,000---and that is between retiring on Sept 1st vs Oct 1st. (Due to the rising Gatt rate) That might be enough for some of the senior guys to say ADIOS. I have heard that 200-300 Capts might bail, and some numbers were as high as 500. This is all what I read on the Dalpa net, though.
I hope the furloughs come back soon.
Bye Bye--General Lee
If it were up to them, probably very slowly over 10 years. I think they will have to call back atleast 250 of the "War Emergency" furloughs after our grievance hearing on OCT 28th---but there have been things said from high level people---one an outgoing or retiring pilot incharge of Flight training I believe----that they could start calling them back in late Sept. A lot might have to do with the number of early retirements on Sept 1st. I have read on our Dalpa forum that the difference in lump sums for guys with 25 years could be as high as $75,000---and that is between retiring on Sept 1st vs Oct 1st. (Due to the rising Gatt rate) That might be enough for some of the senior guys to say ADIOS. I have heard that 200-300 Capts might bail, and some numbers were as high as 500. This is all what I read on the Dalpa net, though.
I hope the furloughs come back soon.
Bye Bye--General Lee
embraerdriver
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