ASA / Comair growth

[Skull-One]

whatever, i guess you are sensitive to it i was just asking lighten the f up

My comments weren't directed at you Anaconda. You simply asked the question and I answered it. I said I was tired of the morons around here, so if you aren't a moron then you weren't included!

General, we got our name from Lake Chautauqua in New York State, I believe. Thanks for the backup. I retract all those mean things I said about you behind your back.

 

[NuGuy]

Hi All,

If anyone is interested in a bit of geography/history:

Chautauqua county is the western most county of New York State. It borders Pennsylvania to the west and Lake Erie to the north.

The airline that bears the name was started in Jamestown, NY, one of the larger towns in the county. They were based there until around 1994, when they moved and swapped routes with Mesa.

Lake Chautauqua is a long, narrow lake that runs through the middle of the county. It is quite scenic, and has a small midway type park, called Midway Park, on the east side. They still have an outdoor roller rink, and a carrousel with a steam calliope. Very quaint. Check it out at www.midway-park.com

You can take a ferry from Stow, NY across the lake if you have the time.

Also on the lake is the Chautauqua Institute, long a haven for artsy types. During the season they have a number of exhibitions, seminars, concerts and the like.

Welch's, the makers of the grape juice of the same name, had their headquarters in Westfield, (about 15 miles north) NY up until recently.

The entire area is exceedingly scenic with mountains, rolling hills, lakes, babbling brooks and covered bridges. The green of the spring is the deepest green you may ever see, the color that classic British roadsters were made for.

For those interested:
http://www.tourchautauqua.com/v2/ho...bhmpex=&bhflex=6,0,22,0&bhdirex=&bhcont=modem

Think what you want about the airline, but if you misuse the name, you insult a wonderfull area.

Best,
Nu

 

[CHQ Pilot]

A little history for those who don't know much about Chautauqua...the airline

Actually we swapped with Jetstream (not MESA) airlines in 1994. Jetstream moved to Dayton and became PSA.

We started in 1974 as Allegheny Commuter flying Beech 99s. Through the years we have flown Metros, Shorts, Jetsreams, and SAABs (and maybe a few others,too). We flew exclusively for US Airways and were always proud in our little niche. In 1998, Wexford, a group out of Connecticut, bought CHQ, seeing there was money to be made in the Regional industry. The airline changed and went from a mom and pop operation to bringing in a new management team to spearhead growth. We then took on TW Express flying in early 2000 as our first venture outside of US Airways. Most people know our history from there.

 

[WorldSeries]

With the airlines current economic state changing faster then the yankees ability to acquire more superstars to buy another world series, where does this leave us pilots? Its obvious what most airline mgt is trying to do, sell off flying to the cheapest bidder and down size the amount of mainline flying or get rid of expensive flying. At what point does this cycle stop or will it? As soon as asa/comair/skywest/airwisconsin contracts become to lucrative which some say they are compared to other regoinals ,will mgt look for another carrier that is cheaper and give them more flying and repeat this agian and agian and agian? If so the careers that we always worked for wont be there? What do we do ??????????????????????????????????????????

 

[sleepy]

Hi all,

As much as I disagree with Fins on a lot of other things, I think he is on the right track here...

You are going to see at DAL a mimic of that happened at USAir in the early 1990's.

Now that DAL has outsourced flying, some MBA managament type will figure out that, from a passenger perspective, there is NO difference between one DCI carrier and another, other than the COST.

So, with money tight, more and more flying will be outsourced from "expensive" carriers to less "expensive" carriers (plus they don't require ANY capital financing). Passengers really don't care how bad the service is because its a "little" airplane, or so they think.

But you say "DAL would never do that, we make too much $$$". Ah, but at that point, you are a cash cow, only to be milked.

Take a look at USAir...in the early 90s you had ALG, HEN (Henson, aka Piedmont) and JST (Jetstream, aka PSA). Wholly owned, makes money, great service numbers, best contracts in the industry. Mesa rolled in, just a little bit at first with the 1900s (and horrible, horrible service) and when the money got a bit tight, eventually management said "why pay more"? Bingo, our friends at the US wholly owned are in their current predicament.

In 1992, Henson was THE place to work. Comair was PFT, and their biggest piece of equipment was the SAAB 340. ACA was all about the J-31 and reeling from their separation from WestAir and burdened with a mix of aircraft from the Air Willy prop buyout. CHQ was a mom and pop operation flying Metroliners out of Jamestown, NY, and you had to pay $8,500 to FSI to work there. My point is, things change...

Don't think for second that a quality operation means anything. Don't think that you can't be bled for cash while being slowly starved to death.

My advice to ASA and Comair...do the single carrier petition, and get some SCOPE, quick.

Best,
Nu

You make some good points, but I don't think many of us at ASA want to merge with Comair right now, we do have our standards. I would much rather see us work with the mainline pilots (they have the power to really make things happen). Hopefully DAL will sell Comair to Mesa.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

Ouch, but that was a good one. I would think you would want to merge with Comair to get their contract and pay rates. But, I could be wrong, and there does seem to be alittle anomosity between you guys and Comair over the ATL flying. Well, atleast you have scored some points with the mainline people for helping our furloughs--and we will remember.

Nu,

I guess Dave Shwartz on the Weather Channel really does know his lakes in NY. And, thanks for all of the good info.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ProLine4]

Yeah, and we'd still make money. Don't believe me? Look at STL. 93-96% on time for last month, too.

Not much long term difference? HA! Boy are you lacking knowledge about economies of scale. A five percent savings in operating costs on a multimillion dollar annual operation is *HUGE*.

As for sensitivity to our name... We *LIKE* our name. It is unique and has a good history behind it. It's also no more of a mouthfull than "Allegheny," "United," or "Waterski." I'm flat out sick of all the morons who think that calling us "Chit-Wah" is witty or original. It's stale. Come up with something else.

I'm sure ASA would loved to be called ASS....... Delta... Let's call it "Smell-ta" or "Smelter" since that's where all the mainline jets are going. And Comair probably loves "Scamair" or "Cramair".... How about "CUMair," isn't that witty? Of course it's not. It's stupid.

If you can't spell Chautauqua then type CHQ or CHA. It's quite simple and will save a keystroke over "Chit."

Skull,
I can't believe you wonder why people get on your case. Here you are, a DL contract carrier pilot, and you're literally biting the hand that feeds you via such comments as "smelter, cause that's where all the mainline jets are going." Last time I checked, if mainline really falters, then sooner or later your beloved fee-per-departure checks will shrink or even vanish. Next, you cite operational statistics for your STL operation, which has absolutely no bearing on your DL contract ops. Finally, you claim that Chit would still be financially ok without OH/EV ground support. I would agree with this statement, but your fixed operational costs would still go up and be reflected in your balance sheet due to economies of scale, as you put it. Also, the concept of ERJ versus CRJ is a nearly worthless debate when you move beyond the pilot perspective. About the only accurate statment that can be made is in regards to cost of production...Brazilian labor is much cheaper than Canadian labor, so Embraer has been able to pass on some of this savings to their customers. Beyond this, it all comes down to money and financial deals between banks/lessors/airlines. I'm sure you'd be a CRJ gear monkey right now for Chit if the price would have been right for Wexford.

Has it occured to you that the only reason you are operating for DCI is because Delta Airlines wanted to maintain market share, and not concede to FL/WN/US in MCO or AA/WN in DFW? Call it whatever you want from your internal Republic Holdings press releases or media koolaid, but plain and simple, Delta wanted to maintain market share in MCO and select DFW markets without losing their shirt on operating economics. This is called yield management....
OH bailed from MCO as the Brasilias were being phased out. EV was already planning to retire their Brasilias at that point, and the cash-cow AT7s won't ever leave ATL (unless replaced by more CR7s or the infamous Q400 rumor), so they weren't about to go to the effort and expense of opening an MCO domicile for airplanes that were going to be leaving the fleet in the future. Both OH and EV smartly did not want any piece of attempting to turn a profit in such notoriously-low yield and volatile markets.
Hence the entrance of Chit. This was NOT a situation where "you won something from the wholly-owned." You were the right Fee-Per-Departure carrier, at the right place, at the right time. You had available jets, both from closing down the CMH HP hub and directly from Embraer, and you had the right price for the DL mgmt beancounters.

To the present, now all EV wants from DCI mgmt is a fair share of the future growth. Things had better start rolling again at EV after August 28th once the contract negotiations are supposedly finished. Chit's expanding with contract services, and OH certainly has had substantial growth in ATL. Well, now it's hopefully going to be EV's turn.

Quit your whining about being called Chit. No one cares, and there will be no end to it. You are lucky to have a job where you have a callsign.

Regards,

ProLine4

 

[Jetpig]

Why Aug. 28th ?

Proline4,

"Things had better start rolling again at EV after August 28th once the contract negotiations are supposedly finished."

What happens on the 28th? I just read where the company and alpa agreed to dates thru the end of the year.

Thanks.

 

[N2264J]

This was the first meeting I've attended and I was shocked by the statements made by DMEC members that appear to simply be in denial. I'm not sure if Fred Reid was catering to the crowd, or if he too is in some sort of arrogant denial that Delta is some sort of super carrier that simply does not have to deal with economic reality.

This is what happened to Pan American World Airways.
They thought the marketplace would change to accomodate
them because, well...they were PanAm.

As it turned out, they didn't have any domestic feed.

Thanks for the report.

 

[Skull-One]

Skull,

You were the right Fee-Per-Departure carrier, at the right place, at the right time. You had available jets, both from closing down the CMH HP hub and directly from Embraer, and you had the right price for the DL mgmt beancounters.

Are you quoting me?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20636&perpage=25&pagenumber=1



I am glad to see that everything I posted went RIGHT over your head. (In case you didn't notice, I said that calling other airlines names like "Smelter" was not witty, it was stupid.)

Yield Management, SHMIELD management. I know exactly why we got the contract and it's because we happened to be in the right place at the right time (with a decent product, I might add). It was luck, pure and simple, and we are grateful for that. If ASA or Comair operated ERJs we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Calling us by some unwitty monicker because of our name/airplane (and/or the actions of our Management Team) is thread bare and makes every single one of you who does it look like an idiot. It's tired, old, and worn. Come up with something else or put a sock in it.

Regards to you, too.

 

[General Lee]

N2246J,

Yes, I know what happened to Pan Am, and we bought most of it. We aren't in denial---we will help eventually, but it will help even more if EVERYONE helps, right? You bet. This is everyone's problem, not just the pilots'. To say otherwise is wrong. This will not be union vs non-union----nope, it will everyone. If we gave 15% back---the one year savings would supposedly be around $270 million--and that is just for pay, not per diem cuts etc....We are just waiting for management's reply.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DDpaysoff]

You two are something else!

 

[Otto_Pilot]

If only they would put the APU fire-bottle switches on another part of the panel in the ERJ...

Maybe the part of the panel furthest from Skull's (Jason's) fingers.

 

[Skull-One]

Huh? I've never fired an APU bottle....

Nice try though.

Who is Jason any way? I think you have me confused with "Skull-1."

Otto_Pilot, enough with the private messages, BTW. I'm not reading them, so quit wasting your strength. Also, for the *THIRD* time, now, "F**K off." I don't tilt for spineless, anonymous morons with way too much free time and vitriol on their hands. Yeah, we get it. You don't like CHQ. Didn't like it when you were here and don't like it now. Good riddance.

Go bother someone who cares....

 

[comrcap]

We are not out to score "points" with DALPA. They flipped us the bird over that whole PID thing and now they're p----d that we won't hire furloughee's. They can go scratch. Economics are driving the RJ expansion. Fred Reid said at the analyst meeting after the earnings release when asked about unit revenue in DFW after the realignment to RJ's. He said "Unit revenue has exceeded our most optimistic forcasts." I guess that says it all.