Asa Cnc

[Speedtape]

You did roll over. The crack squad everyone is defending hasn't gotten us a thing in four years. Unless you are a poor negotiator you can clearly see that we will not be released. When "W" got his second term a smart person would have taken the scheduling section and grabed a few bucks on the 50 and put it to the pilots. You now have another couple years for the NMB to change.

I think most line pilots would have noticed the general change in attitude amongst the pilot group. I think most pilots understand that a release is not coming. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.

I also find it comical that you think the company would try "hostage taking"... The worst thing the company could do is have this team replaced. Indefinate negotiations are the greatest thing since concessions to them.

Some of your points, looking back, may have merit. However, it is easy to be 20/20 in hindsight. We are where we are. It appears that they are diligently exhuasting all available remedies, as they should. If the pilot consensus has changed, then it should be showing up in their polls. That will be their guide rather than the opinions of a few hidden identity BB pundits.

I said nothing about hostage taking. However your point is well made regarding "indefinite" negotiations being the same as concessions--1998 pay in 2007. It translates into cost savings and no money in our pockets.

If the majority of pilots have conceded and feel that a deal needs to be made, then that will happen. Don't attack the negotiation team as they only have as much leverage as this pilot group gives them and the political and econonomic situation allows. Their efforts have been noble and I am not sure that the outcome could be any different, regardless of who is on the team for the reasons you have mentioned on the political side. I am quite sure that there are political forces in the background at work trying to protect the mothership--at ALL costs!

 

[601Pilot]

This is a great question. Someone on reserve has the balls to say they got extended???????? They are on RESERVE for crist sakes. There isn't extentions on reserve. These are the same ass wipes that call scheduling over flight control.

Honest, everyone speak up. How many times have you been extended. For me, in the past 5 years 3 times. You do the math Einstien.

We have this contract, then fly it. Getting extended is part of the contract. Like integration. You don't have to like it, just do you fvckin' job and quite bitchin' son. You ain't BMOC any more in Daytona!

Dick

Amen brother! If you chose to upgrade before you could hold a line, then that's your dumb a$$ fault. If people would stop taking these upgrades, then the company might get the message.

 

[ASARJMan]

I get it. We don't want the CNC members flying because they could get fired in a management move to subdue the pilots.

I think I speak for a lot of pilots when I say I'm OK with that. I want a line pilot in negotiations. Not some guy who flew a EMB-120 four years ago.

Just out of curiosity what hardships has the CNC had to put up with. They go to negotiate nothing happens they go home and say "this is frustrating" then crack a beer and make sure the check cashed. I will happily take any their places and deliver you the same result.

No, YOU don't get it, and probally never will. Oh, we didn't have e120s 4 years ago numnuts, been awhile since they've been gone. So YOU know their schedule every day, what they do? Take their place? Ha, that's a joke. But, you can put your name in the hat in case an opening pops up. That is, if they'll have you.

 

[Crash Pad]

Good point I have no idea what they do on a daily basis... I know they aren't in contract talks. The Contract Negotiating Comitee will not be negotiating a contract for the next three months... Similar to the previous three months. What do they do? I'm sure they man the phones in some ALPA place... Does anyone from the pilot group ever call and ask about the contract or ALPA stuff? Please tell me how they are filling a 40 hour week for the next three months.

Here is an idea. Rather than pay some phone survey group.... have the CNC hand out surveys in the break room. This would give them face time and allow pilots to voice an opinion. Use the money savings to improve the pilot lounge (you'll thank me when airport reserve shows up in the contract).

I am not mad at the CNC. I am disapointed with myself for not figuring this one out. I am of the opinion that someone negotiating on my behalf should do the job. Bid a line, work with scheduling, go through training, talk with line pilots (not the Tomct guy who problobly does call the ALPA line), etc... I think that would make them better negotiators. It also might keep one guy from getting extended. How about one four day a month? or How about five reserve days for a refresher?

 

[Tomct]

Good point I have no idea what they do on a daily basis... I know they aren't in contract talks. The Contract Negotiating Comitee will not be negotiating a contract for the next three months... Similar to the previous three months. What do they do? I'm sure they man the phones in some ALPA place... Does anyone from the pilot group ever call and ask about the contract or ALPA stuff? Please tell me how they are filling a 40 hour week for the next three months.

Here is an idea. Rather than pay some phone survey group.... have the CNC hand out surveys in the break room. This would give them face time and allow pilots to voice an opinion. Use the money savings to improve the pilot lounge (you'll thank me when airport reserve shows up in the contract).

I am not mad at the CNC. I am disapointed with myself for not figuring this one out. I am of the opinion that someone negotiating on my behalf should do the job. Bid a line, work with scheduling, go through training, talk with line pilots (not the Tomct guy who problobly does call the ALPA line), etc... I think that would make them better negotiators. It also might keep one guy from getting extended. How about one four day a month? or How about five reserve days for a refresher?

How stupid are you? Obviously you have not been here very long! Most of what you have said here is like listening to Charlie Brown's teacher...wonk wonk...wonk wonk wonk...! Have you talked to your MEC reps? NO! Have you talked to your P2P? NO! If you did, you would know that the CNC busted a move "MULTIPLE TIMES" trying to get our DumbAZZ mgmnt to get the deal done...but they are NOT going to sell us down the river...LIKE YOU WOULD DO....IDIOT! The mediation board now understands what our CNC has been putting up with for the last 4 plus years. According to some of the MEC, they feel like we may get released if the company does not play ball! They know what the company is doing...delay...delay...delay and I believe that they are going to put the fire to mgmnt!! Bring it on baby...Release Us..Release Us...! You will hear the "proverbial TURD" hit the floor in SGU all the way over in ATL!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You're an idiot. What happens when the CNC goes back on line and commits some minor infraction of the FOM or the POH. I imagine that, while the company would most likely not even notice if it was your mistake, they would view that as a perfect opportunity to begin hostage taking like they did last contract (which you, obviously, weren't around for). Put the CNC back on line and they all fly around with big targets on their backs. Personally, I think YP may have made an unwise decision to head out to the line, but time will tell.

Also, keep in mind these are the people who are out there negotiating on your behalf. I know 3 of them personally and I can assure you they don't enjoy the job they are doing. Agree with the way negotiations are going or not, you need to realize that these guys are offline on YOUR behalf. Perhaps you could think about that before you come on here sounding like a juvenile, spoiled, thankless little brat (which, come to think of it, I imagine you are.)

When I was on full time ALPA leave negotiating in '98, I was still flying 20-30 hours per month. The company didn't go after us then, and they wouldn't go after the current negotiators.

That being said, this isn't a money issue, since ALPA national is footing the bill- I say take as much money as we can from Herndon.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Some of your points, looking back, may have merit. However, it is easy to be 20/20 in hindsight. We are where we are. It appears that they are diligently exhuasting all available remedies, as they should. If the pilot consensus has changed, then it should be showing up in their polls.

Some of us called it before it became "20/20 hindsight". In 2002, "hardline Arnold" didn't want to hear about taking some small inprovements and waiting until things improved..... "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".....

 

[Crash Pad]

Tomct: I know you have been at ASA for 30+ years and are almost able to hold weekends off on the 70! With all that experience I can't believe you still think we are going to get released.

I'm sure the mediator sat down with our boys at negotiations and said "You're right the company isn't here in good faith. I'm going straight to DC to demand a release."

Your rants are entertaining but the idea of getting released is so rediculous it makes you look a little... out of touch.

 

[Crash Pad]

Oh yeah and this talk to your MEC or P2P rep garbage. Why? What are they going to tell me? That is like me talking to my senator about imigration reform.... "I know you are upset but we have to make sure that we get this right and all citizens get a fair deal. Sure we could pass some garbage tomorrow but this is a tough fight that we have to win for the good of the country. Tell your friends to write in and put pressure on these guys and maybe we can get this done."

I'm more of a results kind of guy. Sitting around a table mental masturbating about how much of a signing bonus we should get is why you have a Union.

 

[Copydat]

I believe there are a growing number of lineholders ready for the union to produce some kind of results. A TA is a result and a release is a result. We are not asking for a rollover we are asking for progress. Two sessions every three months is not reasonable. Before you tell me that the mediator controls the schedule I will remind you that the union decided the company was not playing fair and refuses to meet without a mediator present. Holler all you want about the sacrifices that the MEC/CNC has made but I remind you that it really has not been a very bad gig for them.

That being said I believe on an individual basis all of the MEC/CNC are fine people and have our best interests at heart. They are doing what they love and getting paid fairly for it.

The background noise is just a general disgust with the pace of ASA's negotiations. I believe if the CNC does not step up the pace the noise will grow louder until it is a shout. I would hate to see these guys not finish the job but the lineholders patience is wearing very thin.

 

[crjskipper]

im wearing very thin - there has been next to no info released from alpa so far - all they have said is that the company didnt move enough. how much did alpa move? what kind of scope did alpa ask for? i find it irresponsible for alpa to now, nearing the end, throw serious scope into play while still asking for industry exceeding rates. jerry wont give us scope while we outbid ourselves.

we got the quality of life stuff - more days off, better reserve rules.

the company has offered profit share - that's something i want - possibly a 4% raise.

i feel fairly competent we can get skywest rigs. so why so little info? what happened at the table and why do i have to wait to find out?

i think it may be time for some new cnc members - 4 years is a long time. they have done a commendible job - but we need some new blood to get this thing done. soon and right.

 

[shamrock]

....i find it irresponsible for alpa to now, nearing the end, throw serious scope into play while still asking for industry exceeding rates. jerry wont give us scope while we outbid ourselves.

we got the quality of life stuff - more days off, better reserve rules.

And I'm guessing those days off and better reserve rules are included in the Scheduling section, the one that would have to be renegotiated if we were to consider the Company's proposal for PBS. You know, the PBS proposal that came to light AFTER the Scheduling section was TA'ed. The one that was thrown in "near the end", so to speak.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

4 years is a long time. they have done a commendible job

For the love of God, can we please get some sort of spell checker/grammar checker on this board??

 

[FL990]

Skipper,

The Problem with that philosophy is that we MUST get COLA for the duration of the contract...cost of living keeps going up and up...it is difficult to live in ATL as it is...to own a home within an hour from the airport (unless you want to live in Newnan which I don't)...don't buy into the notion that costs for all the other airlines are going to stay the same 'cause they aren't. They will go up too over the next 8 or 9 years (which is how long we will be stuck with this contract). We must get COLA too.

But you are right, we must also get IRON CLAD SCOPE to protect our jobs. Without it..I vote NO!!!

 

[ASARJMan]

I believe there are a growing number of lineholders ready for the union to produce some kind of results.
I would hate to see these guys not finish the job but the lineholders patience is wearing very thin.

Is this a survey that you conducted yourself, of ALL the ASA pilots. Or is this just some bullshet you made up and wrote on here to impress yourself?

 

[ASARJMan]

And I'm guessing those days off and better reserve rules are included in the Scheduling section, the one that would have to be renegotiated if we were to consider the Company's proposal for PBS. You know, the PBS proposal that came to light AFTER the Scheduling section was TA'ed. The one that was thrown in "near the end", so to speak.

Oh hell, don't confuse him now Shamrock!

 

[ASARJMan]

When I was on full time ALPA leave negotiating in '98, I was still flying 20-30 hours per month. The company didn't go after us then, and they wouldn't go after the current negotiators.

That being said, this isn't a money issue, since ALPA national is footing the bill- I say take as much money as we can from Herndon.....

Didn't ALPA come to your rescue back then Johhny boy for some of the crap you were pulling on line? Huh?

 

[ASARJMan]

"hardline Arnold"

Still carrying that grudge Johnny boy because BA wouldn't let your gf run things her way? You'll probally never get over that will you.

 

[Tomct]

Tomct: I know you have been at ASA for 30+ years and are almost able to hold weekends off on the 70! With all that experience I can't believe you still think we are going to get released.

I'm sure the mediator sat down with our boys at negotiations and said "You're right the company isn't here in good faith. I'm going straight to DC to demand a release."

Your rants are entertaining but the idea of getting released is so rediculous it makes you look a little... out of touch.

Once again you show your ignorance! I am being...dare I say...POSITIVE, that the NMB will finally see what a bunch of Butt Monkeys we really work for! Time will tell, but don't sit there and say that the CNC did NOTHING during the session's...again, you show your ignorance! Glad I don't have your attitude....it would be like having a DARK CLOUD following me around the ENTIRE TIME!:bomb:

 

[Tomct]

im wearing very thin - there has been next to no info released from alpa so far - all they have said is that the company didnt move enough. how much did alpa move? what kind of scope did alpa ask for? i find it irresponsible for alpa to now, nearing the end, throw serious scope into play while still asking for industry exceeding rates. jerry wont give us scope while we outbid ourselves.

we got the quality of life stuff - more days off, better reserve rules.

the company has offered profit share - that's something i want - possibly a 4% raise.

i feel fairly competent we can get skywest rigs. so why so little info? what happened at the table and why do i have to wait to find out?

i think it may be time for some new cnc members - 4 years is a long time. they have done a commendible job - but we need some new blood to get this thing done. soon and right.

Ummm, Yeah, they do NOT want to give us the same rigs as Skywst. This should tick you off, maybe not....I don't know! Putting in new blood right now would be a HUGE victory for mgmnt...why, the newbies would not know the BS that mgmnt has pulled and would start the CRAP all over again! You have to wait until the NMB gives them the OK to tell us everything. They gave you the basics...what else do you want?