Asa Cnc

[crjskipper]

im wearing very thin - there has been next to no info released from alpa so far - all they have said is that the company didnt move enough. how much did alpa move? what kind of scope did alpa ask for? i find it irresponsible for alpa to now, nearing the end, throw serious scope into play while still asking for industry exceeding rates. jerry wont give us scope while we outbid ourselves.

we got the quality of life stuff - more days off, better reserve rules.

the company has offered profit share - that's something i want - possibly a 4% raise.

i feel fairly competent we can get skywest rigs. so why so little info? what happened at the table and why do i have to wait to find out?

i think it may be time for some new cnc members - 4 years is a long time. they have done a commendible job - but we need some new blood to get this thing done. soon and right.

 

[shamrock]

....i find it irresponsible for alpa to now, nearing the end, throw serious scope into play while still asking for industry exceeding rates. jerry wont give us scope while we outbid ourselves.

we got the quality of life stuff - more days off, better reserve rules.

And I'm guessing those days off and better reserve rules are included in the Scheduling section, the one that would have to be renegotiated if we were to consider the Company's proposal for PBS. You know, the PBS proposal that came to light AFTER the Scheduling section was TA'ed. The one that was thrown in "near the end", so to speak.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

4 years is a long time. they have done a commendible job

For the love of God, can we please get some sort of spell checker/grammar checker on this board??

 

[FL990]

Skipper,

The Problem with that philosophy is that we MUST get COLA for the duration of the contract...cost of living keeps going up and up...it is difficult to live in ATL as it is...to own a home within an hour from the airport (unless you want to live in Newnan which I don't)...don't buy into the notion that costs for all the other airlines are going to stay the same 'cause they aren't. They will go up too over the next 8 or 9 years (which is how long we will be stuck with this contract). We must get COLA too.

But you are right, we must also get IRON CLAD SCOPE to protect our jobs. Without it..I vote NO!!!

 

[ASARJMan]

I believe there are a growing number of lineholders ready for the union to produce some kind of results.
I would hate to see these guys not finish the job but the lineholders patience is wearing very thin.

Is this a survey that you conducted yourself, of ALL the ASA pilots. Or is this just some bullshet you made up and wrote on here to impress yourself?

 

[ASARJMan]

And I'm guessing those days off and better reserve rules are included in the Scheduling section, the one that would have to be renegotiated if we were to consider the Company's proposal for PBS. You know, the PBS proposal that came to light AFTER the Scheduling section was TA'ed. The one that was thrown in "near the end", so to speak.

Oh hell, don't confuse him now Shamrock!

 

[ASARJMan]

When I was on full time ALPA leave negotiating in '98, I was still flying 20-30 hours per month. The company didn't go after us then, and they wouldn't go after the current negotiators.

That being said, this isn't a money issue, since ALPA national is footing the bill- I say take as much money as we can from Herndon.....

Didn't ALPA come to your rescue back then Johhny boy for some of the crap you were pulling on line? Huh?

 

[ASARJMan]

"hardline Arnold"

Still carrying that grudge Johnny boy because BA wouldn't let your gf run things her way? You'll probally never get over that will you.

 

[Tomct]

Tomct: I know you have been at ASA for 30+ years and are almost able to hold weekends off on the 70! With all that experience I can't believe you still think we are going to get released.

I'm sure the mediator sat down with our boys at negotiations and said "You're right the company isn't here in good faith. I'm going straight to DC to demand a release."

Your rants are entertaining but the idea of getting released is so rediculous it makes you look a little... out of touch.

Once again you show your ignorance! I am being...dare I say...POSITIVE, that the NMB will finally see what a bunch of Butt Monkeys we really work for! Time will tell, but don't sit there and say that the CNC did NOTHING during the session's...again, you show your ignorance! Glad I don't have your attitude....it would be like having a DARK CLOUD following me around the ENTIRE TIME!:bomb:

 

[Tomct]

im wearing very thin - there has been next to no info released from alpa so far - all they have said is that the company didnt move enough. how much did alpa move? what kind of scope did alpa ask for? i find it irresponsible for alpa to now, nearing the end, throw serious scope into play while still asking for industry exceeding rates. jerry wont give us scope while we outbid ourselves.

we got the quality of life stuff - more days off, better reserve rules.

the company has offered profit share - that's something i want - possibly a 4% raise.

i feel fairly competent we can get skywest rigs. so why so little info? what happened at the table and why do i have to wait to find out?

i think it may be time for some new cnc members - 4 years is a long time. they have done a commendible job - but we need some new blood to get this thing done. soon and right.

Ummm, Yeah, they do NOT want to give us the same rigs as Skywst. This should tick you off, maybe not....I don't know! Putting in new blood right now would be a HUGE victory for mgmnt...why, the newbies would not know the BS that mgmnt has pulled and would start the CRAP all over again! You have to wait until the NMB gives them the OK to tell us everything. They gave you the basics...what else do you want?

 

[ohplease!]

For the love of God, can we please get some sort of spell checker/grammar checker on this board??

top right corner...its been here all along

 

[VeeOne]

It's time for a T/A to be cast out for a pilot vote! It either passes and the pilots have voiced their true opinions without Mr. Wilson, or it fails and demonstrates our pilot's resolve.

I'd have to argue that "Hardline Arnold" isn't such a whiz bang consultant. He has nothing to lose and nothing to gain with our contract. Is he genuinely trying to help our pilot group out because he respects, loves, and honors us so much? Or is it because he has such a perverse hate for management that he is willing to cut anyones throat (including ours) to prove a point and bolster an enlarged ego? I'd have to argue that with as little that has changed in the past four years under his tutilage he isn't an effective consultant. In short- the retired, bitter, and horridly hateful consultant we are using doesn't really give a damn about us, but hates management enough to volunteer for this crap while retired. The line pilots should be the consultants........

I definately agree with many others- a release isn't coming. Isn't it about time we start thinking of an alternate means of finishing this thing up?

 

[Tarzan]

top right corner...its been here all along

How does it work? Without a POH or FOM, I'm lost on how to use something new. All this time I would open Word to figure out if I was spelling a word properly.

For Microsoft stuff there is always www.iespell.com but I haven't found anything for Mozilla yet.

 

[ASARJMan]

It's time for a T/A to be cast out for a pilot vote!

Well, tell the company to do their part, and then maybe both sides will sign off on a TA. It takes two (ASA & ALPA) to sign off on a TA, you do know that don't you?

In short- the retired, bitter, and horridly hateful consultant we are using doesn't really give a damn about us, but hates management enough to volunteer for this crap while retired. The line pilots should be the consultants........

Awww what's wrong? Did BA put your place at one time? Obviously YOU don't know Bob. You may think you do, but you don't.

I definately agree with many others- a release isn't coming. Isn't it about time we start thinking of an alternate means of finishing this thing up?

Enlighten us old wise one. What's your suggestion?

Another idiot who thinks he/she has all the answers, but knows nothing about the process.

 

[Crash Pad]

Once again you show your ignorance! I am being...dare I say...POSITIVE, that the NMB will finally see what a bunch of Butt Monkeys we really work for! Time will tell, but don't sit there and say that the CNC did NOTHING during the session's...again, you show your ignorance! Glad I don't have your attitude....it would be like having a DARK CLOUD following me around the ENTIRE TIME!:bomb:

I'm showing my ignorance. I'm ready to put money on the table. How much are you willing to bet that we get released? I'm sure a lot of people on this board would love to take bets that we will not get released. You are out of touch with reality.

Other than show up and talk the CNC did nothing in the last session. I don't grade progress on the idea that we almost came up with something.

On a side note when do you decide to hit caps lock? I read your posts and in my head I yell the Caps items... It makes no sense at all.

 

[~~~^~~~]

It's time for a T/A to be cast out for a pilot vote! It either passes and the pilots have voiced their true opinions without Mr. Wilson, or it fails and demonstrates our pilot's resolve.

You have a good idea - BUT - right now we have no scope in the proposal made by the Company. If a TA was put out for a vote, we would have to vote it down for that reason alone.

I agree with your thoughts on Capt. Arnold. When we tried to pass a resolution at the LEC level to ask ALPA to include us in scope negotiations within the Delta brand - Bob (as MEC Chairman, remember this was a LEC meeting) killed it. The reason for killing our various attempts at brand scope was that "ALPA National will bankrupt us" in retribution. (us being the ASA MEC)

Back then ASA and Comair did nearly 80% of DCI flying. Now we have 10, make that 11, DCI carriers and we are becoming irrelevant.

Capt. Arnold was at various times a valuable help to the ASA pilots. He was at his best when he promoted the PID and he taught me my opinions on scope and unionism. At other times he has seriously harmed us. I liked Bob ver1.0 alot better than the ver2.0 that came back from Herndon, VA. The time has come for him to relax and let our elected representatives do the representing.

 

[Copydat]

Posted by ASARJMAN

"Is this a survey that you conducted yourself, of ALL the ASA pilots. Or is this just some bullshet you made up and wrote on here to impress yourself?"

Response:

You are right, all the lineholders are not complaining about the process. There are a few that still hold out for the following:

1) All complainers are anti ALPA whinners.
2) All complainers are ignorant of "the process"
3) All complainers want a MESA contract
4) All complainers should just shut up and let the MEC/CNC handle this

I offer the following suggestion:

Maybe things are not going as planned for the CNC. Maybe a change in intensity is called for. Perhaps not a change of personel, just a change of attitude.

 

[Copydat]

As I look back at all the posts I realize that ASARJMAN slices and dices every post that does not suck up to the current ALPA gang. I like the current officers but not to the extent of ASARJMAN. He is the Karl Rove of the ASA MEC. Must we always march in step with our leaders? Are self reflection and individual opinions not a cornerstone of our great Nation?

 

[goahead]

Must we always march in step with our leaders? Are self reflection and individual opinions not a cornerstone of our great Nation?

Damn, why don't you run for Pres.....

 

[Richard Gozinya]

As I look back at all the posts I realize that ASARJMAN slices and dices every post........... He is the Karl Rove of the ASA MEC.

Hey dumb azz, Karl Rove is a political advisor. What you are describing is a hatchet man. Chuck T. was a hatchet man. James Carvill is a hatchet man. Karl Rove directs strategy. I find it very hard to believe he is dictating strategy

Dick

 

[ASARJMan]

Must we always march in step with our leaders? Are self reflection and individual opinions not a cornerstone of our great Nation?

snif snif, brings a tear to me eyes, and pride..........

 

[ASARJMan]

I offer the following suggestion:
Maybe things are not going as planned for the CNC. Maybe a change in intensity is called for. Perhaps not a change of personel, just a change of attitude.

Well why don't you contact them at the ALPA office, and suggest that? Because they're not flying the line as some say on here, they'll be there regardless of what others on here write. The MEC and CNC are not opposed to hearing your thoughts and suggestions. Call 'em, or go by the office.

 

[Tomct]

I'm showing my ignorance. I'm ready to put money on the table. How much are you willing to bet that we get released? I'm sure a lot of people on this board would love to take bets that we will not get released. You are out of touch with reality.

Other than show up and talk the CNC did nothing in the last session. I don't grade progress on the idea that we almost came up with something.

On a side note when do you decide to hit caps lock? I read your posts and in my head I yell the Caps items... It makes no sense at all.

How's this? Can you read it now? Again, what is your proof the CNC did nothing? Oh, that's right....B"Dckhd"L told you right.... Man...truely a case of leading a horse to water, but not being able to make it drink. You are a lost cause....good luck with THAT!

 

[VeeOne]

Another idiot who thinks he/she has all the answers, but knows nothing about the process.

This is exactly the problem I am talking about- someone has a different opinion and that makes them an idiot.......Get real! ALPA works for everyone regardless of their view points.

Anyone that really wants to know the great B.A, our fearless consultant, should do a search to read some of the posts made by "BizJet"........Perhaps that would be enough of an education? It's time he retired and enjoyed his golden years- and left us and our MEC/LEC to fend/work for ourselves.

I wouldn't hazard to guess that if the company thought we were going to give the latest company proposal a shot, they would try their best to sweeten the deal in order to get it to pass. If our CNC and MEC offered to cast the latest proposal to the pilots in exchange for scope protection, I'd think they would do their best to make it lucrative.

 

[Crash Pad]

Tomct: I said your caps lock thing was funny. Bold type in lower case is just easier for our senior pilots to read... but not funny.

I know the CNC didn't do anything but show up and talk because... and this is big, we don't have a TA.

I'll even play the horse water game. I'm a horse and you are say the leader. I show up to ground school listen to the chat (which you really need to find a better sales person) and I sign up and pay dues. I think this would be an example of the horse going to the stream and drinking.

Years of drinking and I have had plenty of water. I have an inbox full of water. I have people marching in circles with buckets of water. While I thank you and your type for leading me to water and it has been delicious... I am now ready for a steak or a meal of some kind.

Hey did you want to take me up on the "release by the NMB" bet? I have a small pool of pilots that are ready to show you are full of cr@p... I made it a $100 minimum bet and had more than enough takers. Grab some ALPA money and put your money where your caps locked mouth is.

 

[Copydat]

Wow, I rest my case. You can not disagree with the party line.

 

[Tomct]

Tomct: I said your caps lock thing was funny. Bold type in lower case is just easier for our senior pilots to read... but not funny.

I know the CNC didn't do anything but show up and talk because... and this is big, we don't have a TA.

I'll even play the horse water game. I'm a horse and you are say the leader. I show up to ground school listen to the chat (which you really need to find a better sales person) and I sign up and pay dues. I think this would be an example of the horse going to the stream and drinking.

Years of drinking and I have had plenty of water. I have an inbox full of water. I have people marching in circles with buckets of water. While I thank you and your type for leading me to water and it has been delicious... I am now ready for a steak or a meal of some kind.

Hey did you want to take me up on the "release by the NMB" bet? I have a small pool of pilots that are ready to show you are full of cr@p... I made it a $100 minimum bet and had more than enough takers. Grab some ALPA money and put your money where your caps locked mouth is.

The funny thing is that when the contract arrives and you get your money...you will sit there "fat...dumb...AND...happy!" I am sure that the two people you found to put money in are the same guys that wanted the "Fab 4" in place and sit listening to SH believing everything that he has to say!
Thanks for the bet, but I don't make what I DESERVE as a pilot here, so I will not take it. When our money comes along with our contract, I will gladly accept your apology to the CNC!

 

[sweptback]

For Microsoft stuff there is always www.iespell.com but I haven't found anything for Mozilla yet.

Mozilla has one built in! Right click in the text box and select "Spell check this field."

 

[VeeOne]

The funny thing is that when the contract arrives and you get your money...you will sit there "fat...dumb...AND...happy!" I am sure that the two people you found to put money in are the same guys that wanted the "Fab 4" in place and sit listening to SH believing everything that he has to say!
Thanks for the bet, but I don't make what I DESERVE as a pilot here, so I will not take it. When our money comes along with our contract, I will gladly accept your apology to the CNC!

Funny thing is that the "Fab 4" seem to have had much more of the big picture than people originally gave them credit for. SCOPE was their biggest issue- something very important to the pilot group that isn't being adequately addressed by the reps we have running things now. At least they (fab 4) said they'd have a T/A out there for the pilot group to vote on.

With the current group, we have a handful that want this to happen, and the others upped the 50 seat rate to something rediculous that puts us ahead of SkyWest- Gee, I wonder how that is gonna work out for us??? Funny thing is I don't even need a consultant to deduct the outcome for that........

 

[atrdriver]

I am not mad at the CNC. I am disapointed with myself for not figuring this one out. I am of the opinion that someone negotiating on my behalf should do the job. Bid a line, work with scheduling, go through training, talk with line pilots (not the Tomct guy who problobly does call the ALPA line), etc... I think that would make them better negotiators. It also might keep one guy from getting extended. How about one four day a month? or How about five reserve days for a refresher?

It is my understanding that the CNC members did in fact offer to go back to the line several months ago. For whatever reason it was decided that they should concentrate on the job at hand. As far as what they do, think about it. The CNC is ALWAYS ready for their sessions, normally with several options already played out and written up. The company negotiators always come to the table unprepared. The CNC guys are doing a job that you couldn't pay me enough to do. Why not give them a little respect?