ASA Class Dates?

[jeroom]

Keep on working as an instructor, then go to a 135 freight type job where you will gain some "real experience".
I did 135 freight, then ferried aircraft for a long time, also did some pipeline work. Trust me, flying single pilot in an aircraft that you have to hand fly with analog instruments will give you tons of experience. These kids getting hired right into an RJ at 600 hours is downright dangerous. I know that's also been covered in another thread, so I won't ramble on about that.

My first airline flying job was right into a 727. That's how I would do it. Where would I go? Go to a place like Custom Air (CAT-727's) You'll work your a$$ off, but you'll get paid alot better than the regionals and get to fly a real plane.

Well, your path is very interesting and honorable. But think about all off the pilots with 600 to 1200 hrs in front of a RJ job offer...put yourself into that position back in your time, and be honest... wouldn't you have taken this opportunity??
I am a CFI and fly a corporate 414 single-pilot, I did get during my little experience some "real experience" as you mentionned (I think real experience comes with any airplanes actually). But now I want to move up and flying a RJ for a few years seams to be a good idea. And by the way, why do you mean by real airplane? Steam gauges and screaming low-bypass engines?

Now for the ones in the pool with ASA, any news about class dates in January?

 

[StrykerFL]

From what I understand there are about 70 people in the pool from which classes will be put together to account for retirements and/or attrition. I have heard nothing however of a Jan class date yet. I interviewed on October 25 and like most of the other folks in the pool, got the call from Lisa last week. It will hopefully be soon!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Midnight Flyer - you are wrong about scabs. Scabs cross picket lines. A person is not a scab just because they fly an airplane you don't like.

ALPA created this scope mess by going along with mainline MEC's who wanted to outsource the flying they felt was beneath them. These contracts were ratified by mainline pilots. We lowly regional guys did not participate in the process and are still locked out today.

You are however giving these ASA wanna be's some good advice. They would have a much better career right now by going out and finding themselves a real flying job at a cargo outfit. Coming to ASA while the company is being vectored straight for a strike and probable shut down would not be a good move. Further, upgrade times here are going to be second only to Eagle. These guys need PIC time so they can bypass this seventh ring of hell and try to get the few "professional" flying jobs that are out there.

Schools capitalized on the RJ boom to sucker a lot of kids with daddy's money into direct path programs. Now they are all trained up, with no experience and no contacts. The truth is $10,000 worth of training with many contacts along the way is worth a lot more than $80,000 in training and a "direct path" to no where. Of course the best deal is to pay nothing for your training, have the us government pick up the tab and have a squadron buddy at the grip and grin. Unfortunately some of us are past 30 by the time we figure that out.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Well, your path is very interesting and honorable. But think about all off the pilots with 600 to 1200 hrs in front of a RJ job offer...put yourself into that position back in your time, and be honest... wouldn't you have taken this opportunity??
I am a CFI and fly a corporate 414 single-pilot, I did get during my little experience some "real experience" as you mentionned (I think real experience comes with any airplanes actually). But now I want to move up and flying a RJ for a few years seams to be a good idea. And by the way, why do you mean by real airplane? Steam gauges and screaming low-bypass engines?

Now for the ones in the pool with ASA, any news about class dates in January?

Well you ask me to be honest and I will. I probably would have taken a regional job at that time and place, but things were different. But way back when, there was no internet with websites like this around. The commuters were not yet stealing the routes from the majors. The situation was different and this big "rj" boom hadn't started yet. Regionals were still called commuters and they "fed" the majors. You didn't have 600 hour inexperienced pilots stepping into an extremely advanced jet such as an rj.

I'm not upset at you personally, I'm just upset with the situation and the typical flight instructor with under 1000 hours taking these entry level rj jobs for peanuts, which is driving this industry into the ground. You've seen the type; young instructor who's the big fish in the little pond down at the local flight school. This is the same guy who can't understand why regional pilots are constantly whining about pay and QOL. So they join this message board and read all the horror stories and learn really how low the pay is and how bad the QOL is, and yet they still want to take the job. Then, once on the line and the newness is worn off, they start bitchin' with everyone else while they're flying their 1000nm rj route that used to be flown by a Delta or American mainline jet.

What I mean by a real airplane is one that does not do everything for you, such as letting you know when to descend, etc... Until just a few years ago, our aircraft didn't even have gps's. So it was old school navigation all the way, baby! I'm a 727 driver, and the first time I jumpseated in the cockpit of an rj, I couldn't believe it. Granted, situational awareness is awesome in those fancy things, but only because it has it "mapped out" in front of you on the crt. Duh!! Even my 9 year old can look on the crt and tell you where you are. The rj pilots, right after takeoff, would engage the autopilot very quickly, almost like they are frightened to handfly, even through 10,000 ft. When you question them about it, they quickly say..oh, it's procedure...we're told to engage the autopilot..blah, blah, blah.
I'd hate to be on a flight when the autopilot malfunctions and they're forced to hand fly. .
Some 727 guys hand fly it to altitude, many of them fly it to 18,000 and nearly 100% of the pilots I've flown with routinely hand fly it through 10,000.

Anyway, good luck to you, Jeroom. If you get the job, just get your time and get on someplace else. Freight is always a good place to be. Remember, boxes don't talk back!!
:beer:

 

[737 Pylt]

I know this has been covered at length on this site, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one definition of a scab "a person who takes the job of another by doing it for less?"
So wouldn't the pilots who fly rj's on routes that were once mainline with "real" airline class airplanes be scabs?

The last time I rode on a barbie jet as a pax, I got a cramp in my a$$.
Tomorrow I have to ride in one again for over 1000mn and I'm not looking forward to that. 3 years ago, that same route was on a B737
RJ's are not airliners and pretty soon the public is going to have enough of riding across the country in overcramped business jets.

From Websters online dictionary:
Main Entry: 1scab
Pronunciation: 'skab
Function: noun
a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Midnight Flyer - you are wrong about scabs. Scabs cross picket lines. A person is not a scab just because they fly an airplane you don't like.

~~~^~~~, There are several different definitions of what a scab is, depending on who you ask. I never said a pilot is a scab just because he flies a certain aircraft and I don't happen to like that aircraft. You missed my point. Trust me, I know what a scab is; my airline has lots of them and unfortunately, I fly with them often.
Yes, scabs cross picket lines. But also, scabs replace other pilots' jobs.
Many major airlines have pilots furloughed. One of the reasons these furloughed mainline pilots are out of a job is because regional pilots are taking their jobs for lower pay. How is that not a scab? Just think about it.
Anyway, an rj has no busiess flying anything over about an hour.

just my .02 worth.

 

[ReportCanoa]

You all must remember the fact that most of us hired into the right seat of a turboprop were not planning to steal anyone's job. We were flying to Dothan, AL and Columbus, MS, learning and preparing to upgrade as those above us left for the majors. Then 2001. In my opinion, if you started pilot training in the last four years in hopes of flying an RJ, which many people have, then you deserve what you are getting. The others who got "stuck" at the regionals because of things out of our control are being labeled scabs. No way. ALPA never set minimum wages for RJ flying. They didn't want anything to do with them, even though the majority of mainilne pilots didn't think highly of the fact we were flying jets.

Bottom line? If you applied to a regional in 2002 or later, you may deserve the damn label. For the rest of us trying to get out, well, I won't apologize for continuing my employment in hopes of moving on to better things.

 

[Going2Baja]

Yes, scabs cross picket lines. But also, scabs replace other pilots' jobs.
Many major airlines have pilots furloughed. One of the reasons these furloughed mainline pilots are out of a job is because regional pilots are taking their jobs for lower pay. How is that not a scab? Just think about it.
Anyway, an rj has no busiess flying anything over about an hour.

Remeber who is feeding whom....you are right on Midnight Flyer.

Baja.

 

[WhendoIgetpaid]

I completely agree that experience outside of an ultra-automated jet is important to your skills as a pilot, especially during your first few years as a professional. We are all just trying to play the hand we were dealt, though. A starving 600hr instructor that can fly an RJ is going to do it. You are not going to talk those pilots out of taking RJ jobs right now. A guy whose dad will buy him into an RJ right out of training is going to do that too. Guys that are "lucky" enought to land 135 jobs will take them until they can go where they want too. Point being: don't pretend that everyone has the same options/opportunities to choose from.
Unfortunately I don't think we are really in control of these things. Regionals are going to continue gouging pilots, while they can. Inexperienced pilots are going to tip the scales on pay by taking jobs. I think our only hope is for the whole process to be cyclical. i.e.
at some point passengers get tired of flying on cramped planes => ticket sales move toward majors=> former system of "feeders" gradually rebuilt

being a pilot is no longer considered a career worth the time/effort=> less pilots trained each year=> pay increases as demand for pilots increases

accident rate at regionals increases b/c of pilot inexperience=> regional tickets decrease/increase sales at majors=> pay increase at majors to get pilots/pay increases to get pilots at exprience level req'd by new laws

 

[Kerveball]

Great points...well said!
Now that ASA has called most poolies....has anyone that works at ASA heard any news about class dates?....even if it might just be a rumor.