Asa - 22 Crj900

[General Lee]

SJS? cute phrase. Yeah thats me.
Bigger is better for me because the guys above me will think they are so much cooler because they fly the newest or the biggest thing we have. That'll make my QOL continue to go up. I'll stay right here on my 50 as long as QOL stays good. Hell, I'd gladly go back to ATR if their lines were better. I really don't care what I'm flying.

More jobs and better pay/benefits are always better. I agree. My avenue out of DCI isn't there. Not going to happen for me. No 4 yr. degree and I'd rather spend time with my children while they're growing up than go back to school and chase mainline. By the time they're gone, I'll be 50+. Even after crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's, the odds of getting the job are just too slim for me to bet that much on. If Airtran calls, I'll gladly go there but, thats about it for me.

You may not have said it but, your actions SCREAM it.

Well, you have set your future in stone. It is great that you want to spend time with your kids, and don't plan to go online to get a degree. That is your decision. But, your narrow minded view is ruining it for everyone else, and you could easily turn that attitude into an RJDC commercial. Most guys who think they are "stuck" get desperate, and start thinking irrationally. That's fine, enjoy your life.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

GL....

Once again your posts smack of arrogance and elitism, which is why so many on this board detest you! Why does one have to fly at the Majors to be rational, and thinking clearly. Why does the Majors have to be the pinnacle that we all seek to obtain? Yes, I understand that pay and work rules and retirement and other benefits were superior there, but much of that is eroding.....and that IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE RJ OR ITS PILOTS! Many fly a King Air or Beech Jet as their career pinnacle, and are quite happy! Why would they choose this and not aspire to reach the lofty heights of 'Major Airline' pilot??? Some are Challenger or Gulstream pilots for charter or part 91 for a corporation. Some fly Citations, or Lears or Hawkers for a fractional, and this is what they want for their career! And yes, some are happy to call a "Regional" the final stop of their airplane driving career!!!! Why, the reasons are many, and I wont attempt to list them here. Not all of them have DUI's, lack the college degree (Online or otherwise), or have an accident or incident on their record. Quite contrarily. I fly with many of these pilots on a daily basis. They are good pilots, most worthy to fly your big iron. But they dont, or dont care to. This does not make them lazy, or lacking ambition as you seem to tend to believe. They are happy with where they are at, and there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! You seem to think that every pilot wants to, or should want to be a pilot at Delta, American, etc....Well, not all do! But to you, anyone who does not is lazy and wants their company to grow (with bigger planes or not) because they lack the ability or drive to get to "the big leagues"! Enough with that already!!!!
There is nothing wrong with wanting your company to get more and larger airplanes to enhance their QOL at that company! Much like the guy flying a Citation I may hope his company buys a Citation X or a G-V. Whats wrong with that? Oh, but they must all be RJDC supporters too, because they are lazy! Well, the pay, rules and bennies at the Majors has really taken a hit, and a life at a "Regional" or LCC looks even better in this post 911 era. Many still want those careers at the Majors, and many dont. But quit looking down at those who do not!

 

[ohplease!]

GL....

Once again your posts smack of arrogance and elitism, which is why so many on this board detest you! Why does one have to fly at the Majors to be rational, and thinking clearly. Why does the Majors have to be the pinnacle that we all seek to obtain? Yes, I understand that pay and work rules and retirement and other benefits were superior there, but much of that is eroding.....and that IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE RJ OR ITS PILOTS! Many fly a King Air or Beech Jet as their career pinnacle, and are quite happy! Why would they choose this and not aspire to reach the lofty heights of 'Major Airline' pilot??? Some are Challenger or Gulstream pilots for charter or part 91 for a corporation. Some fly Citations, or Lears or Hawkers for a fractional, and this is what they want for their career! And yes, some are happy to call a "Regional" the final stop of their airplane driving career!!!! Why, the reasons are many, and I wont attempt to list them here. Not all of them have DUI's, lack the college degree (Online or otherwise), or have an accident or incident on their record. Quite contrarily. I fly with many of these pilots on a daily basis. They are good pilots, most worthy to fly your big iron. But they dont, or dont care to. This does not make them lazy, or lacking ambition as you seem to tend to believe. They are happy with where they are at, and there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! You seem to think that every pilot wants to, or should want to be a pilot at Delta, American, etc....Well, not all do! But to you, anyone who does not is lazy and wants their company to grow (with bigger planes or not) because they lack the ability or drive to get to "the big leagues"! Enough with that already!!!!
There is nothing wrong with wanting your company to get more and larger airplanes to enhance their QOL at that company! Much like the guy flying a Citation I may hope his company buys a Citation X or a G-V. Whats wrong with that? Oh, but they must all be RJDC supporters too, because they are lazy! Well, the pay, rules and bennies at the Majors has really taken a hit, and a life at a "Regional" or LCC looks even better in this post 911 era. Many still want those careers at the Majors, and many dont. But quit looking down at those who do not!

very well said.

 

[800Dog]

SJS? cute phrase. Yeah thats me.
Bigger is better for me because the guys above me will think they are so much cooler because they fly the newest or the biggest thing we have. That'll make my QOL continue to go up. I'll stay right here on my 50 as long as QOL stays good. Hell, I'd gladly go back to ATR if their lines were better. I really don't care what I'm flying.

More jobs and better pay/benefits are always better. I agree. My avenue out of DCI isn't there. Not going to happen for me. No 4 yr. degree and I'd rather spend time with my children while they're growing up than go back to school and chase mainline. By the time they're gone, I'll be 50+. Even after crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's, the odds of getting the job are just too slim for me to bet that much on. If Airtran calls, I'll gladly go there but, thats about it for me.

You may not have said it but, your actions SCREAM it.

Please do this Auburn grad a favor and change your avatar. Embarrassing.

 

[ohplease!]

Please do this Auburn grad a favor and change your avatar. Embarrassing.

not gonna happen.

 

[No.W.]

So maybe I want to spend the rest of my days at a regional, I still agree with the General. Short term, yeah it might suck to have no movement at SkyWest, but long term, guys above me will move on and I will move up. Eventually, I might even be number one in the company. That's not going to happen right now, not even with the current rates of retirement. You see, that is the General's point, and really it's everyone else's as well. The fact is movement IS good, and, in the long run, it doesn't really matter where the movement happens. The end result is everyone in the workforce "moves up". The thing about mainline is, once all the furloughs are back in a seat, their hiring will pick up and cause some serious movement in SENIOR regional ranks. Either way, regionals get new jets or mainline gets new jets, I am going to eventually move up at my current carrier. I've been furloughed, it freaking sucks, and seeing some guys get a seat back is a GOOD thing...for the WHOLE industry. Especially since either way the regionals are going to see movement(from expansion on property or hiring due to expansion at mainline). Not that anyone cares....

N

 

[General Lee]

GL....

Once again your posts smack of arrogance and elitism, which is why so many on this board detest you! Why does one have to fly at the Majors to be rational, and thinking clearly. Why does the Majors have to be the pinnacle that we all seek to obtain? Yes, I understand that pay and work rules and retirement and other benefits were superior there, but much of that is eroding.....and that IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE RJ OR ITS PILOTS! Many fly a King Air or Beech Jet as their career pinnacle, and are quite happy! Why would they choose this and not aspire to reach the lofty heights of 'Major Airline' pilot??? Some are Challenger or Gulstream pilots for charter or part 91 for a corporation. Some fly Citations, or Lears or Hawkers for a fractional, and this is what they want for their career! And yes, some are happy to call a "Regional" the final stop of their airplane driving career!!!! Why, the reasons are many, and I wont attempt to list them here. Not all of them have DUI's, lack the college degree (Online or otherwise), or have an accident or incident on their record. Quite contrarily. I fly with many of these pilots on a daily basis. They are good pilots, most worthy to fly your big iron. But they dont, or dont care to. This does not make them lazy, or lacking ambition as you seem to tend to believe. They are happy with where they are at, and there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! You seem to think that every pilot wants to, or should want to be a pilot at Delta, American, etc....Well, not all do! But to you, anyone who does not is lazy and wants their company to grow (with bigger planes or not) because they lack the ability or drive to get to "the big leagues"! Enough with that already!!!!
There is nothing wrong with wanting your company to get more and larger airplanes to enhance their QOL at that company! Much like the guy flying a Citation I may hope his company buys a Citation X or a G-V. Whats wrong with that? Oh, but they must all be RJDC supporters too, because they are lazy! Well, the pay, rules and bennies at the Majors has really taken a hit, and a life at a "Regional" or LCC looks even better in this post 911 era. Many still want those careers at the Majors, and many dont. But quit looking down at those who do not!

I love you too 79%N1. I never blamed the RJ pilots for this mess, since I know they don't make the decisions (except the lack of apparent support for our furloughs after 9-11 on the Comair side) on who flies what. But, newhires with SJS and old timers who don't want to leave but want to reap the benefits while mainliners get furloughed are both shortsighted. I can understand people who didn't get their degrees and have kids wanting to stay around for the schedule, but then they should understand the pay and benefits NORMALLY associated with regional flying. That is the way it goes. To bring down larger planes for less pay is WRONG. Yes, things are eroding at the Majors currently, but that may not be forever, unless pilots are willing to fly larger for less at the regionals. You know I am right, again.

As far as the corporate pilot flying the Citation, good for him. He has no dog in this fight. I have plenty of friends at Netjets and Options, and they seem to enjoy it. I also know people who fly corporate for corporations and like the benefits over there. Good for them. I am not including them or their lifestyles in the debate, since they aren't grabbing for our planes that could replace our 737-200 flying.

Again, I don't hate any group of pilots, at the regional or Major level. I just think there are some people who aren't looking at the big picture. I can see why someone on an individual basis might want to better their own life, but taking away opportunities for others that have worked hard and want to move on is greedy. Not everyone at the regionals is like that, of course.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DrProc]

In the aviation world, movement is good. People in CRJ-700s will go to the 900, people in the 200 will go to the 700, and that means that I will go up in seniority on the 200. It is rediculous to think that the "majors" are going to survive in their current state, so the people trying to hold the status quo had better think twice. Changes are going to happen.

Regionals are now career choices, so if I'm making a career here, I want a large number of aircraft of any type at ASA.

Guess what, if the majors don't survive, ASA won't survive. Don't beleive me, ask the guys at ACA or Chicago Express. I was once a regional pilot and would have loved 900's to come onto property, but now that I have moved on, I have realized the errors to my thinking.

 

[ohplease!]

I love you too 79%N1. I never blamed the RJ pilots for this mess, since I know they don't make the decisions (except the lack of apparent support for our furloughs after 9-11 on the Comair side) on who flies what. But, newhires with SJS and old timers who don't want to leave but want to reap the benefits while mainliners get furloughed are both shortsighted. I can understand people who didn't get their degrees and have kids wanting to stay around for the schedule, but then they should understand the pay and benefits NORMALLY associated with regional flying. That is the way it goes. To bring down larger planes for less pay is WRONG. Yes, things are eroding at the Majors currently, but that may not be forever, unless pilots are willing to fly larger for less at the regionals. You know I am right, again.

As far as the corporate pilot flying the Citation, good for him. He has no dog in this fight. I have plenty of friends at Netjets and Options, and they seem to enjoy it. I also know people who fly corporate for corporations and like the benefits over there. Good for them. I am not including them or their lifestyles in the debate, since they aren't grabbing for our planes that could replace our 737-200 flying.

Again, I don't hate any group of pilots, at the regional or Major level. I just think there are some people who aren't looking at the big picture. I can see why someone on an individual basis might want to better their own life, but taking away opportunities for others that have worked hard and want to move on is greedy. Not everyone at the regionals is like that, of course.


Bye Bye---General Lee

there you go again pulling out that sword for me to fall on....

 

[~~~^~~~]

I never blamed the RJ pilots for this mess, since I know they don't make the decisions (except the lack of apparent support for our furloughs after 9-11 on the Comair side) on who flies what.

they should understand the pay and benefits NORMALLY associated with regional flying.

As far as the corporate pilot flying the Citation, good for him. I am not including them or their lifestyles in the debate, since they aren't grabbing for our planes that could replace our 737-200 flying.

Again, I don't hate any group of pilots, at the regional or Major level. I just think there are some people who aren't looking at the big picture.

Bye Bye---General Lee

General: Like you said, Regional Pilots do not make the decisions.

The BIG PICTURE is that our union has to go about the business of stopping alter ego. Jet Blue is not your competition for 89 seat, or 100 seat rates, DCI is. Can you not see that alter ego is the enemy? Pilots should not be fighting pilots over flying. This is ALPA's failure.

The RJDC is the only voice in the wilderness arguing that pilots should be empowered with all the tools in ALPA's representational arsenal.

As for me, I have the qualifications to move on to another carrier and may very well do so. However, my position on the RJDC's effort and the representational rights of all pilots in ALPA would not change because I know that this profession was built on pilots jacking up the house, one corner at a time. Without a strong National Union coordinating the lift, each MEC engages in predatory bargaining, undercutting the lifting that other pilots have done.

If ALPA continues to favor one group of pilots over other pilots, why would any of us want to be in ALPA? The only thing we get for the expense of maintaining a national bureaucracy is the benefit of making a coordinated effort. Obviously that has not happened in a long time and is less likely to happen given the political belief that ASA pilots are somehow less deserving of ALPA's full representation because as you characterize us, we are lazy, incompetent and uneducated.

General, your MEC unleased a horde of barbarians.

 

[enuffalready]

big picture??

OK GL, FDJ, 737 pilot, etc....and any other mainline guy/girl . I have been reading these boards off and on for a couple years. Been flying at ASA for over 5 years and here's a perspective that you might want to think about.

You talked about big picture... here's your big picture. I am an RJ pilot that flys for free ( I know $50 per year)to my favorite destinations on Delta. I am an FO because I choose to be. I make more money than your most senior 777 capt with another career and I have absolutely zero desire to fly for American, FEDEX, UPS, united and even, yes mother Delta. I don't care what planes you fly, I don't care about your problems and yes, I will fly a 90 seat jet for cheaper than you. I think it would be fun to fly it and couldnt give a rats a$$ how much that affects your big picture. I don't care about your upgrade, I don't care about your QOL and I certainly couldn't care much less about your big picture. I know, I know, I am ruining YOUR industry. What I care about is my friends I fly with at ASA. I have jumpseated plenty of times and have been on more than one delta flight with misfits less suitable to fly than the stews. I like my RJ job, have the money, and don't need your preferential hiring ( umm, yeahh right). I don't have a DUI, speeding tix, or a felony and have a masters degree in something other than aviation. Yes, I do realize that there is someone out there that is willing to do my job cheaper, and I am ok with that. It's called the free market. When that day comes, and I am requested to fly for less than what I think this job is worth then I will happily walk away and know I had a good run. Until then, I will continue to ruin YOUR industry and not lose a winks sleep over my inability to see YOUR Big Picture.

 

[737 Pylt]

The RJDC is the only voice in the wilderness arguing that pilots should be empowered with all the tools in ALPA's representational arsenal.

Fins:
That has to be the funniest thing you have ever typed.....And I thought you didn't have a sense of humor!!! With that type of spin, I guess you could sell a refrigerator to an eskimo! Keep those checks going to Haber, he's about to go out and buy a new benz!
737

 

[US Flyer]

I went back.............

I went back to school and finished the degree while here as an F.O. It was some late nights spent on the computer after the kids went to sleep, but will be worth it if it gets me out of here someday.

I'm not willing to fly an RJ900, RJ1200, RJ9999 or whatever else they come up with that has 200 plus seats for 50 seat wages. Why should I? Part of the problem with SOME of the pilots at ASA is that they think they can't do any better and have settled. Management wastes money on EVERYTHING on a daily basis, including their own salaries (especially). Management also knows that probably half the pilots at ASA are too afraid "in this current environment" to stand up and strike.

Our company makes money in spite of itself- just think what it could do if it really had its act together. It reminds me of the local Home Depot. If you go shop there, no-one knows what the hell is going on, they can't ever keep things in stock, priced correctly, etc. Its a huge pain in the rear to shop there, and always some kind of hassle or problem, but their corporation is one of the most profitable ones in the nation because everyone loves their prices.

The problem is that things here will never change (unless you start over completely with entirely new mgmt. from the bottom up.) I'll be in my grave before they ever get their act together in ATL. I'm not patient or willing to settle.

Let ASA stay with 70 or less seats and go on strike if needed to get higher wages. Skywest can afford us and should have never bought us if they weren't willing to get the contract resolved. Delta can keep the larger airplanes and RAISE TICKET PRICES (what a novel concept!) to afford their pilots and cost structure. They should also hit up all the "key" executives they paid millions to let leave in 2002 for some kind of refund.

 

[General Lee]

General: Like you said, Regional Pilots do not make the decisions.

The BIG PICTURE is that our union has to go about the business of stopping alter ego. Jet Blue is not your competition for 89 seat, or 100 seat rates, DCI is. Can you not see that alter ego is the enemy? Pilots should not be fighting pilots over flying. This is ALPA's failure.

The RJDC is the only voice in the wilderness arguing that pilots should be empowered with all the tools in ALPA's representational arsenal.

As for me, I have the qualifications to move on to another carrier and may very well do so. However, my position on the RJDC's effort and the representational rights of all pilots in ALPA would not change because I know that this profession was built on pilots jacking up the house, one corner at a time. Without a strong National Union coordinating the lift, each MEC engages in predatory bargaining, undercutting the lifting that other pilots have done.

If ALPA continues to favor one group of pilots over other pilots, why would any of us want to be in ALPA? The only thing we get for the expense of maintaining a national bureaucracy is the benefit of making a coordinated effort. Obviously that has not happened in a long time and is less likely to happen given the political belief that ASA pilots are somehow less deserving of ALPA's full representation because as you characterize us, we are lazy, incompetent and uneducated.

General, your MEC unleased a horde of barbarians.

Fins,

Again, if you don't like it, get other representation. We are negotiating for us. ALPA negotiates for us with Delta, and ALPA negotiates for you with ASA. Delta is incharge of the flying, and we are negotiating directly with them. The RJDC may not be uneducated, but they are surely lazy. Go to Continental if you want larger planes---they are hiring. What? You can't handle being on reserve, being an FO, and the $30 an hour for 1st year pilots? Tough. That is what happens when you go to another airline. The RJDC wants the best of both worlds, which isn't reality.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

OK GL, FDJ, 737 pilot, etc....and any other mainline guy/girl . I have been reading these boards off and on for a couple years. Been flying at ASA for over 5 years and here's a perspective that you might want to think about.

You talked about big picture... here's your big picture. I am an RJ pilot that flys for free ( I know $50 per year)to my favorite destinations on Delta. I am an FO because I choose to be. I make more money than your most senior 777 capt with another career and I have absolutely zero desire to fly for American, FEDEX, UPS, united and even, yes mother Delta. I don't care what planes you fly, I don't care about your problems and yes, I will fly a 90 seat jet for cheaper than you. I think it would be fun to fly it and couldnt give a rats a$$ how much that affects your big picture. I don't care about your upgrade, I don't care about your QOL and I certainly couldn't care much less about your big picture. I know, I know, I am ruining YOUR industry. What I care about is my friends I fly with at ASA. I have jumpseated plenty of times and have been on more than one delta flight with misfits less suitable to fly than the stews. I like my RJ job, have the money, and don't need your preferential hiring ( umm, yeahh right). I don't have a DUI, speeding tix, or a felony and have a masters degree in something other than aviation. Yes, I do realize that there is someone out there that is willing to do my job cheaper, and I am ok with that. It's called the free market. When that day comes, and I am requested to fly for less than what I think this job is worth then I will happily walk away and know I had a good run. Until then, I will continue to ruin YOUR industry and not lose a winks sleep over my inability to see YOUR Big Picture.

Wow, you're awesome. You go girl. You should go buy a Cessna Cardinal with all of that money and go fly it to Albany, GA for lunch sometime..... Did you inherit that money? I bet you did, because you sound pretty dumb. Spoiled brat.


Bye Bye--General Lee