AS Furlough Mitigation

[Baze]

snapshot,

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Mind you, my post came after the first time I read the MOU. I've read over it a couple more times since then and discussed it with others.

I voted for it last night.
Only time will tell whether this MOU is going to help this pilot group, especially those on furlough. I hope the MEC has figured out their next 10 moves in this chess game.

It says in black and white that it will save 30 guys. It also is very clear that, at the absolute longest, it dies in a little over a year. True, it does nothing to save the 60 already out there, that'll be up to us individually.
The lines will still be built to 83 hours. The only real QOL I see is that you'll have to work a little harder to find someone to trade with pilot-to-pilot instead of Second Step. Small price to pay to save 30 families, if you ask me.

Gotta say I'm a little surprised. I figured this would have a bare minimum of 30 yes votes. To think that you'd sacrifice your job so that VSA guys can still get 150% blows my mind. I applaud your thinking long term, but submit that this is a short term proposal that will help bridge the gap till the 65ers are out.

Cheers.

 

[Going2Baja]

It says in black and white that it will save 30 guys. It also is very clear that, at the absolute longest, it dies in a little over a year. True, it does nothing to save the 60 already out there, that'll be up to us individually.
The lines will still be built to 83 hours. The only real QOL I see is that you'll have to work a little harder to find someone to trade with pilot-to-pilot instead of Second Step. Small price to pay to save 30 families, if you ask me.

Gotta say I'm a little surprised. I figured this would have a bare minimum of 30 yes votes. To think that you'd sacrifice your job so that VSA guys can still get 150% blows my mind. I applaud your thinking long term, but submit that this is a short term proposal that will help bridge the gap till the 65ers are out.

Cheers.

Great post! This might have had a chance until the latest negotiators notepad was sent. Why doesn't SEA MEC just say "vote NO" What a crock of $h!t!

Baja.

 

[igneousy2]

What's the problem with the Notepad?...I thought it was good. Perhaps it pushes people away from what you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's true.

I think it's important for people to know that this was not a negotiated for agreement but essentially terms laid out by the company in a take-it or leave-it fashion.

That being said, we can't let our egos decide if we should take this or not...just because it's "take it or leave it" doesn't mean we should leave-it just to make a point.

I'm not sure how I feel about this MOU mostly because as I have never been a line holder, I'm not sure what the ramifications of losing 2nd step trading is.

2nd step trading to me means one more week of waiting for my schedule.

What does the elimination of 2nd step trading mean to a line holder? Why is that superior to picking up open flying during 1st step or after the bids are closed?

As far as I can tell from the MOU there are really only two things we are giving up...max down to 80-83...and no 2nd step. Where is the "major changes to the QOL and pay sections" of our contract? Is it the training and vacation calculations? How much different does this change those calculations?

I usually don't go by what I hear on the line but some of the reactions have been over the top and I feel like I am missing something beyond what amounts to a 2-5 hour adjustment to the monthly maximum and one less trading period (a step in the right direction in my opinion but that's a whole other thread).

What am I missing? What are the major changes to QOL that I am just not reading in the MOU?

 

[Old School 737]

I don't like giving up 2nd step and I can see guys being pissed about it but I am voting for it cause I think it's the right thing to do and its not like we are giving up that much and its not forever! I hope! When are we going to find about the early outs?

 

[dashtrash]

The foot stamping and crying over the 2nd step is not what they care about at all. They love to say "I don't VSA" but take it away and the true colors fly. I don't think the company realized how well they could have broken us during a strike. They know now!

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

After a long hard look at this thing, I voted for this MOU. It's an "effort" at keeping 30 people on the property in these bad economic times. I don't trust our company, but it's an opportunity to do the right thing IMHO.

 

[Old School 737]

I hear that we did not get the min 25 guys to take early out but that tomarrow the company and union is sitting down to discuss letting the ones that want to go,
go any way.

 

[Going2Baja]

I don't like giving up 2nd step and I can see guys being pissed about it but I am voting for it cause I think it's the right thing to do and its not like we are giving up that much and its not forever! I hope! When are we going to find about the early outs?

Word today was 21 or 22 takers. The rules stated no less than 25 and no more than 30. However, Beck said in front of 30 pilots inc. Kemp & LAX CP that he would accept down to 18 and up to 40...Let's see if he keeps his word. The LAX LEC was also there. I think this needs to be passed on to MEC and make sure that there is pressure placed on the CO if they try to back out of this.

As for 2nd step - I was a line holder for a year and I did like the 2nd step. It was one more chance to better your sched. But since it's seniority based, I rarely got any trades I asked for. If I were a line holder now this would NOT be a deal breaker for me.

Ih8afyesmen said it the best : "It's an "effort" at keeping 30 people on the property in these bad economic times. I don't trust our company, but it's an opportunity to do the right thing IMHO."

I voted proudly "YES!"

Baja.

 

[eskimopilot]

What is truly sad is that a MOU is needed at all. With our fellow pilots on the street why do we need something in writing that tells us what we all should be doing already?
Ah that's right. This is the pilot group that includes those that brought us the B-Scale, industry averaged pay and arbitrated contracts. Nice.

 

[Chief Pilot]

I voted YES and I hope at least 51% do the right thing and vote for this MOU.

 

[Snapshot]

I voted for it last night.

I don't know you that well, but I was definitely surprised by your initial reaction. Glad to hear you've reconsidered.

I'm going to stop saying 30 'guys' or 30 'jobs' or 30 'F/O's' when I mention this in the coming days. I'm going to stick to calling it what it is...

30 FAMILIES.

The last MEC meeting I went to, the chair said: "Let's face it, these guys were hired after 9/11, they knew they were rolling the dice." Lots of nodding heads in reply.
It's a hell of a thing when your fate is in the hands of guys that, for the most part, have never had to face furlough and consider what it means.

I honestly don't know how you could look yourself in the mirror in the morning volunteering for extra work so the company can put your fellow pilot out on the street. SCABs are motivated by fear of being put out of work...........these guys do it with nothing to lose.:angryfire

 

[Chief Pilot]

The foot stamping and crying over the 2nd step is not what they care about at all. They love to say "I don't VSA" but take it away and the true colors fly. I don't think the company realized how well they could have broken us during a strike. They know now!

This is one of the primary reasons I voted for this. Take away the incentive to hoar, by flying extra with guys on furlough, and people might actually quit the free-for-all. I don't like everything about the MOU, but it will help 30 families and it is temporary. Plain and simple.

 

[NWaviator]

Can anyone paste the whole thing on here please?

 

[QCappy]

To all on this board:

It is funny to me how overwhelmingly "yes" this board is. If one was to read the ALPA board, you would be sure it was going to fail. Of course, that was the same for the contract, and look what happened there. As one near the bottom, like several of you, my family appreciates your support. This has to be one of the most stressful weeks in my airline career.

I say let's give this a try. If management gives us an unwanted colo-rectal exam on this one, then no more for them.

 

[Baze]

QCappy,

This could very well fail. Seems like this has taken on a life of its own. People have been getting phone calls urging them to vote no and the individuals making these phone calls have been feeding people misinformation.

As for the crackboards, you are right. More people seem to care about how this MOU vote turns out than the CBA. I'm sure more than a couple of them are VSA'ers.

There are only a couple of no-voters on the crackboards who seem to be levelheaded. TK is one of 'em.

I wish people would read the MOU and make up their own minds. But, it's always easier to listen to someone else's fear-mongering.

Good luck to us all.

Baze

 

[Mea25000]

This is truly embarrassing. This pilot group is all about money and our union is a disgrace. There is no way this thing is going to pass but I voted for keeping 30 guys and gals in their house supporting their families. I hope all these guys with there second homes and boats get there way so they can by an new Escalade this year! We complain about the company doing the right thing and then we run and hide behind well its not perfect I don't like this part and oh 2nd step... come on

 

[Mamma]

This is truly embarrassing. This pilot group is all about money and our union is a disgrace. There is no way this thing is going to pass but I voted for keeping 30 guys and gals in their house supporting their families. I hope all these guys with there second homes and boats get there way so they can by an new Escalade this year! We complain about the company doing the right thing and then we run and hide behind well its not perfect I don't like this part and oh 2nd step... come on

Mea,
I am getting lopped in this next furlough but I am not on board with this MOU. I read the email the FO reps sent out today and I tend to agree with them. This is a "land grab" by the company. Take it or leave it...their rules, their benefit and NO guarantees. Much of it makes NO sense at all in regards to mitigating a furlough. If the company is serious about mitigating or preventing furloughs, then the ball is in their court to do the right thing.. ...its just that this is not it. I have not made up my mind though.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Mea,
I am getting lopped in this next furlough but I am not on board with this MOU. I read the email the FO reps sent out today and I tend to agree with them. This is a "land grab" by the company. Take it or leave it...their rules, their benefit and NO guarantees. Much of it makes NO sense at all in regards to mitigating a furlough. If the company is serious about mitigating or preventing furloughs, then the ball is in their court to do the right thing.. ...its just that this is not it. I have not made up my mind though.

I'm a little bit out of the loop on this since I've been on the streets for a while, but a "land grab?"

Doesn't this MOU and all of it's changes to the CBA end if they furlough more?

 

[Mamma]

I'm a little bit out of the loop on this since I've been on the streets for a while, but a "land grab?"

Doesn't this MOU and all of it's changes to the CBA end if they furlough more?

Are you part of 67? If not let me know and I will send you the email.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

changed vote to "NO"

I've changed my vote to a "NO" after talking with some of my trusted friends (dudes who are neither pro-company nor pro-union) and re-reading the MOU. IMO, this is a simple hostage situation in order for the company to get what they've always wanted from this pilot group-more $$$.
The company will furlough no matter what, if they don't need the manning; it's all about the $$$. The MOU does not have a "no furlough clause" and it states so clearly. If this thing passes, we may have saved 30 pilot jobs temporarily at best. The fact that the company can furlough at anytime even if we sign up for this MOU is fishy. I really think that the company will come back for more if we sign up for this. I think it's better to call their bluff now and "negotiate" a furlough mitigation that will stick; this MOU was not "negotiated" but rather force fed. If it's a win-win, why only give us a week to read and vote for this thing. Why such a rush?
For those on the chopping block, I really do feel your anxiety and pain. Nothing I or anyone say will ease the pain; I can only imagine.